Could OKC eventually have the tallest tower in the nation?

[gmwise]

However way you choose to read this. So be it.
But I don' t see OKC having a "skyscaper" mention on here.
I don't see economics supporting it.
I don't see anyone with the money to sink into a project like this here in OKC.
Our population density doesn't warrent a "skyscraper" nor a transit train.HINT to the Mayor.
Our present income level per captia wouldn't support it, not is there enough for a "residential tower".
Its great we want to see good things for OKC/Oklahoma, but realism is needed before a huge parting of money.
I'm not about to use taxbreaks to get something built that will just sit mostly empty.
And public officals if you value your job and freedom, don't you do it!

[OU Adonis]

I find some of these comments amusing. So far out into left field litterally. I am done with this thread.

[metro]

Yeah, gmwise's comments crack me up. He'd be surprised what OKC's underserved economy could do. Just like the naysayers of the Hornets and look what they did. OKC could easily support at least one new tower, and gmwise, more than likely, it will come out of private pockets, not public. Very very very rarely does the public ever pay for stuff like this. Present income would support it. I believe OKlahoma was 3rd in the nation last year for personal income growth. This strong oil money filters down through our economy. Last time I checked these oil companies paid very well, and the top players have thousands of employees alone. Of course, we still have other sectors such as medical and government that is doing very well. Public transit is a must, look at smaller cities than us who have MUCH BETTER public transportation systems. All I can say is watch what we have here in a few years. You'll be surprised.

[adaniel]

Yeah, gmwise's comments crack me up. He'd be surprised what OKC's underserved economy could do. Just like the naysayers of the Hornets and look what they did. OKC could easily support at least one new tower, and gmwise, more than likely, it will come out of private pockets, not public. Very very very rarely does the public ever pay for stuff like this. Present income would support it. I believe OKlahoma was 3rd in the nation last year for personal income growth. This strong oil money filters down through our economy. Last time I checked these oil companies paid very well, and the top players have thousands of employees alone. Of course, we still have other sectors such as medical and government that is doing very well. Public transit is a must, look at smaller cities than us who have MUCH BETTER public transportation systems. All I can say is watch what we have here in a few years. You'll be surprised.

I agree metro. With all of the good news OKC has had in the past few weeks (landing mayors convention, in consideration for Piper HQ, major real estate deal that could lead in new tower, new housing projects finally coming online, Sonics inching closer to relocation, more grads staying in state, etc..) I'm a little blown away by some of the negative posts that are starting to show up here. There's nothing wrong with wanting better things for OKC. I think its a good thing b/c the other option is to just throw up your hands and say,"Well I guess that's just the way things are." It shows that citizens want momentum to continue. That being said, OKC is hardly a stagnant backwater like some people say. Maybe its the gloomy weather thats put some people in a bad mood. Sheesh, have a little faith in your hometown. Good things are happening here.

[AFCM]

Gmwise, were you living in Oklahoma City ten years ago to see how far it has come since then? With the growth and momentum OKC has experience in just the last ten years, it's foolish to think Oklahoma City can't successfully support a new tower. Drive around town and count the cranes. I can think of about a dozen, with most of them working downtown/midtown. I know of maybe three near OSU/OKC. I've also seen several near I-240/SW 59th. That's momentum on a huge scale and it's not going to end anytime soon. Oil prices don't look like they're going to drop anytime in the near future, so the economy should be set for a while. One thing we're getting now that we didn't have during the 80's is diversity. Our diversity isn't a great as other major cities, but it's more than we had back then. Like everything else, it takes time. The point is, momentum is pointing towards a bright future. With that being said, I respect your opinion and welcome anything else you might like to add. I always enjoy reading an opposing point-of-view.

[HOT ROD]

^ I definitely agree. OKC is on the up and up.

We have true visionary people leading this city now that care about it, and not only that - but they recognize the potential that OKC has and know what it takes to move us forward.

Buying the Sonics and moving them to OKC will truly revolutionize the city, not so much because the team itself will DO anything for the city but due to the recognition factor that a pro team does for your city; people worldwide will see Oklahoma City every time they open the sports section.

Ask Salt Lake what the impact of the New Orleans Jazz has done for them. ....

OKC is very very similar to SLC yet is in a much better position. SLC didn't really start growing until after the NBA established a team there, OKC is already growing even tho the city doesn't have a permanent team (yet).

I assume a lot of the growth is in anticipation of this team, it gives corporations and citizens something to do. You wanna bet that SandRidge, Devon, and all other OKC based and located companies will start using the Sonics as a recruiting tool to get talent to OKC? You wanna bet that having the Sonics in OKC will convince otherwise disappointed recruits that coming to OKC might not be so bad.

And once they get here, I think they might even tell a friend or two what a gem OKC is becoming.

And all of this started by someone back in the early 1990's who had a vision and was tired of the same-old-complacentcy! He invisioned a downtown where people would come for entertainment as well as to work and even live. To do so, you need cultural attractions and quality of life. He sold the city an idea called MAPS, and we all know the rest. ...

Well, now we are really seeing the fruits of MAPS, not JUST the buildings or canal or whatever, but try this ... billions and I mean multi billions of dollars of PRIVATE investment in the downtown area!! With more to come.

Sandridge moving downtown will certainly keep this momentum going, and will keep a major skyscraper listed as owner occupied. Certainly, look for SandRidge to grow and fill up the tower. And because SandRidge is making the big move, look for other companies to want to locate downtown now, with all of the excitement and the fact that there are high-profile companies based there; accountants, lawyers, consultants, brokers - all will be making a return to the cbd.

And Devon surely will build a tower, American Fidelity might also. And surely OKC will get an NBA team, most likely (like 99%) it will be the SuperSonics/Storm.

And forever more, OKC will be prosperous as long as those ultra-conservative, non-progressive, complacent, naysaying individuals like GMWISE are ignored or not allowed the time of day here.

I can ONLY assume that his comments are based on the fact that GM closed its plant here - OKC was not alone and surely you can/will find another job elsewhere in the city. If not now, definitely soon!

Keep the faith in your city!!!

[Midtowner]

I can ONLY assume that his comments are based on the fact that GM closed its plant here - OKC was not alone and surely you can/will find another job elsewhere in the city. If not now, definitely soon!

Well said except the stuff about gmwise. I don't claim to know his situation, neither do you. I think you're going too far in saying that he should be silenced. There's room at the table for anyone with an opinion. If he doesn't think OKC will do it, let him think that.

This is only an internet message board. We are not overly influential or important in the grand scheme of things.

The purpose of a place like this is to learn about the city by learning from its people. If we squelch certain voices just because we don't agree with them, we start sounding like an echo-chamber. That's just no fun at all.

So disagree.. tell him why he's wrong. Tell the great story about how Oklahoma City is booming. But he has as much right to be heard as anyone else.

[jbrown84]

I didn't see anything about silencing anyone.

[metro]

I have an idea, a little off-topic somewhat. We all talk about a "high-rise" or an tourist attraction like an observation tower. I know it may sound cheesy, but it is a better idea and cheaper than the Kerr-McGee Bell Tower is. How about repainting and upgrading the current space needle from the fairgrounds and moving it 4 miles or so east to the banks of the Oklahoma River near the Chesapeake Boathouse. It would be fairly cheap to do. provide a year-round attraction that would get far more attendance than the once a year state fair, and provide one more thing to do downtown and provide excellent views. How about it??

[CuatrodeMayo]

How tall is it?

[Midtowner]

That thing is pretty pedestrian compared to other observation towers.

I once had occasion to have lunch on top of the CN Tower in Toronto when my fraternity had its "Grand Chapter" up there. That was really pretty amazing. At any rate, the fairgrounds tower is ugly. I'd want something a little more avant-garde than that tower which vaguely resembles a tuna can on top of a light pole.

www.cntower.ca

[CuatrodeMayo]

Yea...I think our skyline might look like a flea market knock-off of Seattle or Toronto's skiline.

[metro]

That's why I didn't suggest it as permanent, and not in the CBD. I suggested it on the Oklahoma River if it got some basic upgrades and new paint. It would sure look better than the Kerr McGee Bell Tower, and would be an attraction none-the-less. Once it was doing well, it would hopefully convince someone to build/ raise bonds, MAPS3, etc. for a more permanent, iconic observation tower.

[Pete]

I think there are some good points raised here, even though they may be a little on the extreme side and also hard to hear.

Unfortunately, perception is reality and if people really want OKC to become progressive in order to attract and retain the best and brightest, the whole state has to look more progressive than it currently comes across.

I'd say most the leadership in OKC has shown themselves to be forward-thinking and that helps a great deal. But the state needs to do things like change our silly liquor laws... It's not so much of a commerce issue as it is one of perception, just like when we were the last state to get liquor-by-the-drink. And not to get too political, but our senators and congressmen need to stop portraying the state as a bunch of intolerant exclusionists.


But as far as tech companies, they are almost all home-grown, not relocated from other areas. The Silicon Valley and Research Triangle exist because people from those areas (the products of great universities) started them and then fed them with the local talent.

There is no reason this can't happen in OKC and in fact, it is already happening in biotech. The Health Science Center is poised for a massive expansion over the next 10 years and the huge majority of the jobs will be highly paid. And the research park on OU's south campus is starting to get some critical mass as well.

And OKC and OU need better symbiosis in general. Great cities need great universities and vice versa. OU is only 20 minutes from downtown OKC but until recently, it seemed like worlds away. Nothing against OSU but that school is not part of the Metro and may even be more aligned with Tulsa than OKC anyway. And there is no reason OCU and UCO can't join in more as well.

[dismayed]

I still think some kind of New Years tower would be cool downtown. Something with an observation deck, something very modern looking... maybe deck it out with OLED panels or something futuristic and have them present a lightshow at night. On NYE sections of it could light up and move up towards the top of the tower at midnight.

[CCOKC]

I think everybody here brings up some really good points. We do have quite a bit of diversity here especially if you compare us against the Pacific Norhwest. I am thinking mostly about Idaho and Utah in particular. When I was in Boise, it was a rare event to see anyone who was not white, unless they were mowing a lawn.
I think I heard on the local radio station Boise is 95% white. Compared with about 70% in OKC that is a noticeable difference. I believe the diversity should be celebrated. The black history in OKC is very interesting and important to civil rights nationwide and I think we need some kind of OK Black History Museum downtown. Also, as part of Core to Shore there is talk of building up a Mercado around Little Flower Church. This sounds like a great idea to me. We are also getting the American Indian Cultural Center which also celebrates are diversity.
Last week I read an article from the New York Times by a food editor who is travelling the nation eating local food. He spent the whole three days eating soley Vietnamese food. What great exposure for us! Maybe someone could find the article and post it I'm afraid I'm not very good at doing this sort of thing.

Also, about the city landmark; I would like to see everybody's serious ideas about a quintessential tower/landmark/icon from all of the brilliantly artistic people on this forum. It has to be spectacular and I'm afraid the thing at the fairgrounds just won't cut it even in the short term. Come on people, I'm a cpa so by definition I have no imagination but I know you guys can come up with some great ideas. Think Gateway Arch, Statue of Liberty. Golden Gate Bridge or even Reunion Tower.

[betts]

To bring up what I edited out of my last post in this thread, basically what I was saying was that no large company is going to relocate to OKC because we have lower taxes, a cheaper economy, or tasty drinking water. It just doesn't happen. If you look at the movement of "high tech" companies over the last several years, it almost always boils down to one of two reasons: 1. a merger/buyout ends with one side having to relocate to the other, or 2. a company moves to get closer to its customer or supplier, to its competitors or collaborators, or moves to get closer to a base of people that it can potentially employ. That's really pretty much it.

If you look at that list, the only thing public policy can really address is stuff relating to creating industries here or bases of people that industries will want to take advantage of. So the big question OKC needs to ask itself is this: how do we attract "high tech" (be it software, aerospace, or biotechnology) workers? If you look at the cities these people inhabit, they are pretty forward-thinking places. How do you get people who are used to a certain quality of life and open minded society in Seattle, Portland, San Franscisco, Boston, or other places to want to follow their company and relocate? It's very difficult.

I mentioned that I was in Silicon Valley and companies were moving to Austin and their people were actually following them. Why? Austin has a reputation for being a very fun, modern, and cool city.

So long as this city remains the ultra conservative cornballfest that it is you are never going to see someone from any of these other places relocate here. Am I saying the city needs to change its political affiliation to attract high tech workers? Absolutely not. What I'm saying is that this city has to find a way to diversify itself, its interests, and its attractions to attract a wide range of people. We need a city that is intellectually challenging if we are to attract people whose job it is to create intellectual property. Art, music, film, etc. are all important to workers of these industries... that's why companies are moving to places like the "live music capital of the world."

I've worked for a few companies that tried to relocate folks from other places out here to the plains states. If you can't get people to move here, you end up having to hire locally for a job. When you do that, at some point you completely tap out the available workforce. Without cross-pollination from people from other places in the country, your company won't be able to sustain the collaboration that intellectual properties need now days, and eventually things either end in disaster or you remain isolated forever.

So OKC, how do we become a place where people from all over, from all different viewpoints and ideas will want to come to?

An NBA team is a great start. Professional sports are one important thing that lifts a city above others of a similar size. Movies in the park downtown, Shakespeare in the park, interesting places to live, interesting restaurants (Atlanta is a city to emulate in that respect....I've recently been to some amazing restaurants there with very interesting decor and menus...Float Away Cafe and Two Urban Lick are a couple that come to mind)., great clubs and music venues. I think the concept of a city as an interesting place to live starts with the twenty and thirty somethings in a city. Those are the people who are mobile and open to change. Keep young professionals in state and attract others from out of state.

[metro]

CCOKC, the New York Times article you are referring to is posted somewhere here on the site. I read it yesterday but I can't remember what forum. I bet if you do a search you can locate it. Yes, it was good diverse exposure for OKC!!

[Pete]

Here's that article from the NY Times:


July 4, 2007
Frugal Traveler | American Road Trip
Good Morning, Vietnam ... er, Oklahoma
By MATT GROSS

AMERICANS do not like vegetables. At least, it seems that way after almost two months on the road, during which I’ve eaten at countless country cafes and rarely ever encountered anything fresh and green. When I have, it’s been iceberg salads with toupees of flavorless yellow cheese, battered and deep-fried string beans and, inevitably, cole slaw.

Not that the food hasn’t been delicious — like the pulled pork at Blue Mist in Asheboro, N.C., or the patty melt at Spice Water Cafe in Lime Springs, Iowa. But a diet of meat, starch and fat is not what you want when you spend hours a day sitting in a car. Often, as I digested the latest gut bomb, I would wonder if my budget was keeping me away from greener, healthier restaurants. But, no. I rarely glimpsed such places outside big cities and a few hip towns.

And so, with Oklahoma City in my sights, I headed south as fast as I could. I had one thing on my mind: Vietnamese food.

It may come as a surprise that Oklahoma’s capital has a significant Vietnamese population — around 20,000, according to the Vietnamese American Community organization — but such ethnic enclaves are a new American reality. Hmong live in large numbers in Minnesota, for example, while Columbus, Ohio, is home to some 30,000 Somalis. And in each case, the immigrants bring their own cuisines, which often are tasty, full of veggies and inexpensive.

Oklahoma City, however, lay a long way from Nebraska, where I’d just visited Carhenge (www.carhenge.com). From there, I drove through Kansas, stopping at Greensburg to witness the aftermath of the May 4 tornado. Then I had to drop the car off in Wichita, at Gorges & Company Volvo (3211 North Webb Road, 316-630-0689, www.volvobygorges.com), for much-needed repairs; 6,000 miles’ worth of leaks and electrical problems cost a disheartening $855.

It was late on Saturday evening when I finally drove into Oklahoma City and checked into the first place that looked clean, had Wi-Fi and was cheap. The Hospitality Inn (3709 NW 39th Street, 405-942-7730) is a simple motel — two stories arranged around a swimming pool — but it is on the fabled Route 66 and less sketchy than some of the older motels, and the proprietor knocked the price down from $62 a night to $51.25 when I said I’d be staying three days.

There was a lot to see, but the real plan was to eat as much Vietnamese food as possible. I knew this would take discipline, so as soon as I woke up Sunday morning, I went jogging. The motel is on a highway, but a few blocks south is Will Rogers Park, several acres of grass, trees and ponds. Ducks and geese and hares had to scurry as I bounded over bridges, through the rose garden and around the arboretum for about 30 minutes. On my way back, I took note of the park’s tennis center and wondered if I could find a partner there later in the day.

Now, however, it was time for breakfast, so I drove through the city, past numerous barbecue joints and root beer stands for the more balanced delights awaiting me in the city’s Asian District, a modest neighborhood of strip malls and slightly run-down houses lining North Classen Boulevard.

I knew exactly what I’d be eating: pho, the beef noodle soup that is considered the national dish of Vietnam. It may seem a strange breakfast, but all over Southeast Asia, it’s common to begin the day with noodle soup.

And that’s how I began at Pho Hoa (901 NW 23rd Street, 405-521-8087), recommended by an Oklahoma-born friend. In the brightly lit room, surrounded by Vietnamese families, I ordered a small bowl. The first bite was heaven, as if my taste buds had been in suspended animation all these weeks. The noodles were thin but firm, the broth redolent of star anise, topped with thin slices of rare flank steak and well-cooked brisket. I garnished it with bean sprouts, basil and ngo gai, a long, lemony leaf known as sawtooth or culantro, then squeezed in some lime juice and mixed it all together. The bean sprouts crunched, and the herbs provided a fresh counterpoint to the hot soup.

When I dipped a slice of flank steak in a little dish of Sriracha chili sauce, I could tell it had been a long time since I’d eaten like this — my tongue, usually able to withstand any assault, from habaneros to bird’s eyes, was on fire. I cooled down with a salted-lime soda, then walked out the door with an iced coffee enriched with condensed milk, having paid only $11.53 for a taste not just of Vietnam but of home. (I lived in Ho Chi Minh City, the former Saigon, in 1996 and 1997.)

My stomach temporarily full, I drove downtown to the Oklahoma City National Memorial, a park dedicated to the victims of Timothy McVeigh’s 1995 terrorist attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. Two stone arches bracket a reflecting pool, bearing the times “9:01” (before the bombing) and “9:03” (after), and 168 chairs sit in a field of grass to represent those who died.

As I walked in, I heard a teenager ask his mother why McVeigh did it.

“Well, he had something against the government, I guess,” she answered, and they walked out.

If they’d stuck around, they could’ve learned more from Rick Thomas, the National Park Service employee who gave a free orientation under the Survivor Tree, a century-old elm. In the span of 15 minutes, he covered everything from the details of the attack to the ways the memorial tries to address the emotions of everyone affected by the bombing. I left hoping my own city’s 9/11 memorial winds up being, as Doug Kamholz, a reader, wrote of this one, “a worthy balm to the heart.”

After a brief stroll through the area, I returned to the Asian District around 11:30 a.m. in search of banh mi, or Vietnamese sandwiches. And in Oklahoma City, the signal for banh mi is an enormous milk bottle sitting atop a tiny shack on Classen Boulevard. Once, this place sold Braum’s ice cream; now it’s Banh Mi Ba Le (2426 North Classen Boulevard, 405-524-2660), famous as much for its outsize sign as for its warm mini-baguettes stuffed with roast pork, pâté, cha lua (a Vietnamese mortadella), lightly pickled daikon and carrot, cilantro and green chilies. I love them — especially when they cost $1.85. It’s ridiculous how much you get for so little.

It was sort of the opposite at the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum (1700 NE 63rd Street, 405-478-2250, www.nationalcowboymuseum. org; entry, $8.50), which readers suggested I visit. It was quite large, with rooms full of saddles, guns, clothing and cowboy art, but it seemed geared toward 10-year-old boys, more interested in perpetuating the romantic myth of the cowboy than in understanding how that myth came to be and what it means for American culture. It was almost as if “Deadwood” and “Unforgiven” never existed.

As I drove away from the museum, I passed yet another barbecue joint, right next door, and wondered if I was missing something in my single-minded devotion to Vietnamese cuisine.

Then I arrived at Banh Cuon Tay Ho (Little Saigon Shopping Center, 2524 North Military Avenue, 405-528-7700) for a midafternoon snack and forgot all about hickory-smoked slabs of meat. The signature dish, banh cuon, is a kind of northern Vietnamese ravioli — warm, thick, soft rice noodles filled with ground pork and mushrooms, and topped with bean sprouts, sliced cucumbers, cha lua and shredded mint. Here it was served with a fried cake of sweet potato and shrimp that was simultaneously salty and sweet, crunchy and creamy. In fact, I think the whole plate contained every known texture and flavor — and for a mere $6.

By now, I needed to work off three meals, so I returned to the park, hoping to find a pick-up tennis partner. I didn’t. (Who but the Frugal Traveler goes to a tennis court alone?) Instead, I swam laps in the Hospitality Inn pool, napped briefly and emerged from the motel — ready to eat again.

Golden Phoenix (2728 North Classen Boulevard, 405-524-3988), recommended by the proprietor of Banh Mi Ba Le, was bustling with families and college students, and with the help of my waitress, who giggled at my poor Vietnamese, I put together a standard southern Vietnamese dinner — the kind of meal I ate every day a decade ago. First, a deep-fried soft-shell crab that dribbled its bubbling green juices into my rice bowl with every bite. Then water spinach stir-fried with garlic, fresh from the wok, the tubular stems crunchy, the leafy bits lush and juicy. A clay pot showed up full of caramelized braised fish, and finally goi ngo sen, a salad of cucumber and young lotus shoots threaded through with rau ram, a diamond-shaped leaf that tastes like cilantro but is spicier and soapier.

I ate — and ate and ate. Soon, I knew, I’d be off to Texas and day after day of beautiful barbecue (mm, burnt ends!), but for now I was crunching through fresh veggies, searing my mouth with chilies and drowning myself in fish sauce — deliriously happy in the heartland of America.

By the time I finished, I’d spent $48 (including a beer, dessert and tip) and barely touched the lotus-shoot salad — it was just too much food. Instead, I had it boxed up to take back to the motel. It wasn’t quite pho, but it would do for breakfast.

Next stop: Texas.

[CCOKC]

Thanks for posting that Malibu

[gmwise]

I would like to suggest you see what the office space in OKC Metro, & Residential is doing right now.
I also suggest sometimes playing Devils' Advocate allows some to explore why they love/hate OKC,maybe mention what has or would make OKC to be better, so those who have the ear or the actually purse strings could make it happen.
Debate should never be discouraged.
Only the insecured scream and discourage/censor others from speaking/posting.
Pretty revealing there. eh?!

[HOT ROD]

I wasn't trying to discourage you or debate, I just felt that your tone was inappropriate for the discussion and that your "facts" were off-base. I certainly did not mean to offend you in ANY way! Sorry you took it that way.

But I do agree with you ^^, if you have a negative - why not suggest an improvement?

We all know OKC isn't perfect but it sure is doing way way better than 15 years ago. While we should be proud of ourselves we should not sit on our laurels and a shot or two with constructive criticism is appropriate.

That being said, I still don't get your past post gmwise. It really seems as tho you are letting your GM experience (apparent) assist you into believing that "OKC can't expand its downtown presence", to paraphrase you; but I do believe there has been billions of dollars in private monies spent downtown already and there has been news posts of at least 5 companies looking to move/expand/build downtown.

that ist great news! Be proud of your town.

Sure, I want to see it happen (prob just like you), but I will take the positive approach (of encouragement) and only accept (ie debate) the negative if it comes with alternatives.

I didn't see any in your past post.

[stlokc]

Hot Rod, I could not agree with you more. To see Oklahoma City today and to remember what it was like before the mid-1990s is to recognize a vast improvement in almost every way. The successes of OKC are apparent in threads all across this board, and I am more and more proud of my hometown every time I come home.

I do think that OKC boosters run the risk of resting on their laurels, though, and that is dangerous because if the oil economy collapses, the city has not passed "the point of no return" in its re-invention. To take just one example: the office vacancy rate is still murderously high, (I think the highest in the country) and I see very little "corporate peer pressure" to move businesses downtown. Everyone applauds Sandridge but it is going to take way more than their 1500 workers to begin to make the streets of the CBD seem crowded again. I think some in the business community are content to see Downtown as nothing more than a playground and not step up to the fact they have a huge role, maybe the central role, to play. Maybe the answer is incentives, maybe it takes a huge education and marketing campaign, I don't know.

This is not to endorse any negative thinking. I am the king of positive thinking and want to again emphasize how proud I am of OKC. I just worry that too many people I know that live there seem to think the downtown renaissance has achieved its purpose. The reality is there could be $10 billion more in private development and it still wouldn't be at its potential. Just a thought.

[JOHNINSOKC]

You are definitely correct when you say that the city shouldn't rest and assume that we've reached our goals or potential. I think the sky is the limit for downtown OKC and the metro as a whole. The vacancy rate is somewhat skewed by so much of the Class C space being vacant. The last report I remember seeing, and this is about a year or so ago, the Class A rate downtown was 14.9% vacant. That's not too bad. I would venture to guess that it's around 13% currently. If Devon decides to build a huge tower downtown, it will take roughly two years for construction and I would expect that our occupancy levels would be vastly improved by then. Between company moves from the suburbs to downtown, and possible new corporations coming to OKC, I think a Devon Tower would not be a negative factor in the office market. Thoughts??

[okcpulse]

Yeah, gmwise, I don't discourage debate, but debate needs accuracy do be a good debate. I'm not saying you're not accurate, but you come across as uninformed about Oklahoma City lately. I am going to provide feedback for your post, and I'll break down my responses to each argument in your post.

I don't see economics supporting it.

Several companies in OKC are growing fast and cobbling up what Class A and Class B space we have left. A couple of those companies are big believers in downtown. Moving downtown and building downtown is a trend. Economics here have changed.

I don't see anyone with the money to sink into a project like this here in OKC.

Local companies in Oklahoma City aren't hard up for money. In fact, they are awash in money. Devon Energy is occupying all of its 19 story HQ, half of Oklahoma City's tallest building, and several other smaller spaces in First National Center.

Our population density doesn't warrent a "skyscraper" nor a transit train.HINT to the Mayor.

This is a very bad assumption. People should really get away from using population density to justigy whether projects should be built. Oklahoma City could deannex 300 square miles, have the same population of 540,000 and have its density double. As for a mass transit train, again, bad to rely on population density as a factor. I admire cities that plan well ahead instead of wait until the last dead minute like Houston, Dallas and LA. What's wrong with OKC planning smart?

Our present income level per captia wouldn't support it, not is there enough for a "residential tower".

We have one of the nation's fastest growing per capita incomes, and we're planning for more growth. OKC can support residential towers in the twenty-story range. Besides, two twenty story towers that were recently converted from office to residential are doing well.

Its great we want to see good things for OKC/Oklahoma, but realism is needed before a huge parting of money.

There is a thing called feasibility studies that are done before thse projects get going. It isn't pure speculation.

I'm not about to use taxbreaks to get something built that will just sit mostly empty.

Again, that is why feasibility studies are done. Banks don't hand over financing for projects that don't hold any convincing.

I rest my case.