Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[RedDollar]

key areana has no club level and limited suites for that size of a market . .. .and has limited seating in general

united center chicago has 3 levels of suites ..

Nawww, suites were not an issue. If suites were an issue, it was a very small issue.

The problem was the ' footprint ' was too small and it could not be expanded. The real estate was just not available.

People in Seattle pushed this hard, they wondered why they could not just rennovate the KeyArena and satisfy Stern. Because they could find a way to finance a rennovation. And Stern's answer was always the size of the footprint. Every time.

[PhiAlpha]

Nawww, suites were not an issue. If suites were an issue, it was a very small issue.

The problem was the ' footprint ' was too small and it could not be expanded. The real estate was just not available.

People in Seattle pushed this hard, they wondered why they could not just rennovate the KeyArena and satisfy Stern. Because they could find a way to finance a rennovation. And Stern's answer was always the size of the footprint. Every time.

They had the real estate to expand the footprint, but not the funding due to the passage of I-91 which prevented any public funding from being used to built or renovate public stadiums after it was used to build the Seahawks and Mariners stadiums and renovate key arena in 1995. Part of the reason the footprint was inadequate was due to the fact that there wasn’t enough room to accommodate new, modern revenue generating amenities like loge boxes and additional suites. Part of the frustration from the city was that it was just renovated 10 years prior to when the demands for a new arena began.

Also a major issue was the Sonic terrible lease that didn’t allow them to receive any revenue from the few suites they had and other revenue generators that most nba teams receive money from.

[Laramie]

Go with the $135 million upgrades & enhancements to The Peake & NBA Practice facility. Replacement of original seats, expanded area for fan enhancements, expanded south entrances much like a new arena:

MAPS I investment: $90
MAPS for Hoops: $90 - $10 NBA practice facility
MAPS IV: $120 - $15 million NBA practice facility

Chesapeake Energy Arena total investment: $300 million
NBA Practice Facility total investment: $25 million (dual courts).

MAPS 4 should be able to fund many projects: Animal shelter, Chesapeake Arena & NBA Practice Facility, State Fair Coliseum, mental health & social services (Palomar, Diversion Hub), MAPS 4 Stadium and transit.

A win, win for all...

[jn1780]

Key arena(former name) is in the process of an 830 million rebuild. They are going to keep the original roof, but everything else is being demolished and rebuilt. NHL is coming in 2022.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/l.../281-621138581

[jedicurt]

Go with the $135 million upgrades & enhancements to The Peake & NBA Practice facility. Replacement of original seats, expanded area for fan enhancements, expanded south entrances much like a new arena:

MAPS I investment: $90
MAPS for Hoops: $90 - $10 NBA practice facility
MAPS IV: $120 - $15 million NBA practice facility

Chesapeake Energy Arena total investment: $300 million
NBA Practice Facility total investment: $25 million (dual courts).

MAPS 4 should be able to fund many projects: Animal shelter, Chesapeake Arena & NBA Practice Facility, State Fair Coliseum, mental health & social services (Palomar, Diversion Hub), MAPS 4 Stadium and transit.

A win, win for all...

agreed... and this is why i keep getting confused why they don't seem to want to include transit... there is money for it. and i'm going on the theory that if it's there, i'll vote for it, and if it isn't, i won't... there is no project on the list that will make me say no... but not having a project i want, will prevent me from saying yes

[RedDollar]

Key arena(former name) is in the process of an 830 million rebuild. They are going to keep the original roof, but everything else is being demolished and rebuilt. NHL is coming in 2022.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/l.../281-621138581

Yep, huge amount of money compared to what they were talking about circa 2007 and earlier. Back then, it was in the 100 million range.

Last I saw, this current renovation is up to 900 million.

And the existing KeyArena had more suites than CHK arena.

[RedDollar]

They had the real estate to expand the footprint, but not the funding due to the passage of I-91 which prevented any public funding from being used to built or renovate public stadiums after it was used to build the Seahawks and Mariners stadiums and renovate key arena in 1995. Part of the reason the footprint was inadequate was due to the fact that there wasn’t enough room to accommodate new, modern revenue generating amenities like loge boxes and additional suites. Part of the frustration from the city was that it was just renovated 10 years prior to when the demands for a new arena began.

Also a major issue was the Sonic terrible lease that didn’t allow them to receive any revenue from the few suites they had and other revenue generators that most nba teams receive money from.

Yeah, I covered that in a concise manner ... but KeyArena had more suites than the ChK , it was not a matter of suites

And they were not talking enough money to expand their current " footprint "

[PhiAlpha]

Yeah, I covered that in a concise manner ... but KeyArena had more suites than the ChK , it was not a matter of suites

And they were not talking enough money to expand their current " footprint "

Key Arena had 58 suites at the time the team moved. CHK has 92 plus two loge boxes with 912 seats between them and twice as many club level seats. http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/...nics/index.htm, http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/...nder/index.htm

They WERE talking money to expand the current footprint. Howard Schultz proposed more than doubling the footprint in 2004 and it was going to cost $220 million. They were also talking about building a new arena in SoDo or Renton as alternatives to renovating Key prior to the team moving. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...e-of-keyarena/. That plan actually called to reduce the amount of suites to add loge boxes...which shows that even when doubling the footprint, it still wouldn't be a large enough building to accommodate both modern amenities like loge boxes and an NBA average amount of luxury suites. At any rate the proposal failed then I-91 passed in 2006 and Schultz sold the team.

[RedDollar]

Key Arena had 58 suites at the time the team moved. CHK has 92 plus two loge boxes with 912 seats between them and twice as many club level seats. http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/...nics/index.htm, http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/...nder/index.htm

They WERE talking money to expand the current footprint. Howard Schultz proposed more than doubling the footprint in 2004 and it was going to cost $220 million. They were also talking about building a new arena in SoDo or Renton as alternatives to renovating Key prior to the team moving. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...e-of-keyarena/. That plan actually called to reduce the amount of suites to add loge boxes...which shows that even when doubling the footprint, it still wouldn't be a large enough building to accommodate both modern amenities like loge boxes and an NBA average amount of luxury suites. At any rate the proposal failed then I-91 passed in 2006 and Schultz sold the team.

Exactly, you've just written a paragraph to say what David Stern said multiple times ............ the footprint was not large enough. He would not accept a renovation of KeyArena.

I was much more concise than you, ya know , TL : DR

As to the number of suites, congratulations , you win .............. I got bad info.

Too bad, its a trivial F'n victory for you, cuz number of suites did not matter.

Hard to believe you actually Googled this chit.

[RedDollar]

here ya go, Mr Google fraternity boy, I'll play your Google game

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/nba/nba-commissioner-david-stern-says-keyarena-renovation-not-an-option-for-sonics/

NBA commissioner David Stern says KeyArena renovation not an option for Sonics
Originally published March 26, 2008 at 12:00 am Updated March 26, 2008 at 11:20 am
David Stern
Sonics owner Clay Bennett, left, listens as NBA commissioner David Stern speaks after an Oklahoma City presentation Tuesday.
1 of 2 | David Stern

NBA commissioner David Stern on Tuesday shot down a proposal by a group of Seattle businessmen seeking to renovate KeyArena in order to...
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By Seattle Times staff

OKLAHOMA CITY — NBA commissioner David Stern on Tuesday shot down a proposal by a group of Seattle businessmen seeking to renovate KeyArena in order to keep the Sonics in the city.

Stern said the NBA does not view a renovation as a solution because the site could not undergo a proper expansion.

On Tuesday, Stern visited Oklahoma City with three NBA owners who were impressed enough with a presentation to think it should be the future home for the Sonics.

While taking questions about an NBA relocation subcommittee’s recommendation to move the Sonics to Oklahoma City, Stern said, “The reason that this journey began was because KeyArena was not an adequate arena going forward and there were a lot of recommendations made for another arena … but the tax revenues and the various contributions weren’t forthcoming.
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“I would say that as far as we know, the footprint of Key is at present time not viewed as adequate to support what’s necessary going forward.”

[RedDollar]

And , now that I've refreshed my memory, the problem was the lease in Seattle ...............far bigger problem than suites.

It was the first and maybe the only lease that required fans of a sports team to pay for arena/stadium renovaton/construction.

Did not matter how many suites they had, was still not gonna generate enough revenue for the team to be competitive, without ownership pumping a bunch of money into the operation.

[Laramie]

Don't know if you guys covered this, Key Arena at the time prior to relocation had suites; however the Supersonics' franchise did not receive any of the revenue from those suites.

Somehow, I get the feeling there's some uneasiness about the $120 million upgrade of The Peake; anyone feel we may fall short and the Thunder may want a brand new arena 5 years following the renovation...

[PhiAlpha]

Exactly, you've just written a paragraph to say what David Stern said multiple times ............ the footprint was not large enough. He would not accept a renovation of KeyArena.

I was much more concise than you, ya know , TL : DR

As to the number of suites, congratulations , you win .............. I got bad info.

Too bad, its a trivial F'n victory for you, cuz number of suites did not matter.

Hard to believe you actually Googled this chit.

I followed this all pretty intently while it was happening so most of that was from memory but i figured that i could afford time for a three second google search to site my numbers since you were so insistent on key having more suites than CHK. It didn’t and couldn’t because of the original footprint and that was part of the issue.

The footprint would've been fine had the expansion proposed by Schultz been approved. David Stern and the NBA BOG were all pissed because the city refused to assist in funding an expansion or a new arena. If the city agrees to assist in the $220 million expansion of Key, the team is never sold and doesn’t move.

[PhiAlpha]

And , now that I've refreshed my memory, the problem was the lease in Seattle ...............far bigger problem than suites.

It was the first and maybe the only lease that required fans of a sports team to pay for arena/stadium renovaton/construction.

Did not matter how many suites they had, was still not gonna generate enough revenue for the team to be competitive, without ownership pumping a bunch of money into the operation.

Yes, I mentioned that in post 1477 as well:

Also a major issue was the Sonic terrible lease that didn’t allow them to receive any revenue from the few suites they had and other revenue generators that most nba teams receive money from.

[/QUOTE]

[PhiAlpha]

here ya go, Mr Google fraternity boy, I'll play your Google game

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/nba/nba-commissioner-david-stern-says-keyarena-renovation-not-an-option-for-sonics/

Geez, didn’t know someone would get so butt hurt over googling info about a 15 year old arena funding dispute.

Yeah that was in 2008 after Schultz already sold the team to Bennett and Seattle had already passed I-91 preventing public funding from being used for arenas unless they could prove that it would generate a return. Stern was using the size of the footprint to head off a group of investors making a last ditch effort to renovate key arena after the team was basically already moving and Bennetts mostly fake attempt to put a new arena in Renton failed. Read between the lines, the bigger issue was that the city refused to fund any arena improvements or a new building. He said as much in the paragraph before the one you put in bold. Had public funding been approved to expand Key, Stern wouldn’t have cared where they were playing and the team would still be there.

At any rate, again if Stern really wanted a new building over a Key Arena expansion part of the reason was that a Key expansion couldn’t accommodate as many suites as most modern NBA arenas.

[Plutonic Panda]

Geez, didn’t know someone would get so butt hurt over googling info about a 15 year old arena funding dispute.

He's a feisty one.

[PhiAlpha]

Don't know if you guys covered this, Key Arena at the time prior to relocation had suites; however the Supersonics' franchise did not receive any of the revenue from those suites.

Somehow, I get the feeling there's some uneasiness about the $120 million upgrade of The Peake; anyone feel we may fall short and the Thunder may want a brand new arena 5 years following the renovation...

No, there’s no reason for them to want a new arena. If this plan doesn’t make the cut, they’ll just submit another renovation plan.

[BDP]

Don't know if you guys covered this, Key Arena at the time prior to relocation had suites; however the Supersonics' franchise did not receive any of the revenue from those suites.

Somehow, I get the feeling there's some uneasiness about the $120 million upgrade of The Peake; anyone feel we may fall short and the Thunder may want a brand new arena 5 years following the renovation...

I don't see it. Ultimately, the thing in Seattle boiled down to Seattle / Washington not being willing to leverage public resources for team ownership. I think Stern called it the worst lease in the league and public sentiment wasn't there to acquiesce to league and ownership demands. We all know Bennett wanted the team here, but if they were able to use OKC as leverage against political sentiment in Washington, they may have been able to work it out with Stern letting Bennett know "I owe you a favor...".

That's definitely not the case here and they have a favorable deal. They're the horse in a one horse town and they're going to get the deal they want. If anything, I'd say Kansas City is the one market that could maybe offer a "ready-to-go" solution for them, but even then I'm not sure they would really net that much more. They would probably get more from their media deals, but I'm not sure it'd be worth the move at this point. This rebuilding period will be a test of it, but I think they have a good enough deal now and enough public support, both in terms of fan support and the civic mindset to tax themselves to aid ownership, that they have to know they have it good here, even if they don't get this round of improvements to the facility with which they have a good lease. Emphasis on good lease.

[Jersey Boss]

Sacremento Kings wanted to relocate to Seattle and league said nope. Doubt league would allow Thunder to move cause they were crying for a new arena. Especially when current one is a solid one with all the amenities of other gyms. OKC needs to sever that practice facility as the public does not get any benefit.

[Jersey Boss]

I don't see it.

That's definitely not the case here and they have a favorable deal. They're the horse in a one horse town and they're going to get the deal they want. If anything, I'd say Kansas City is the one market that could maybe offer a "ready-to-go" solution

Also KC has the Chiefs, Royals and Jayhawk BB to compete with.

[Laramie]

Kansas City offered PBC LLC (Thunder owners) free rent at the Sprint Center if they were to move there prior to relocation back in 2008.

Today's KC metro market is 2.2 million, it's highly recommended that a market needs 1 million per major league sport. Would be risky for NBA or NHL to return to K.C. at this time.

[warreng88]

So, if Chesapeake as a company goes under, what happens with the naming rights?

[kevin lee]

Well, everyone will start saying "we're on our way to Riverwind Arena to watch the Thunder tonight".

[Laramie]

...Or Winstar World Arena.

Naming rights would go thru the bidding process.

Since Thunder are a well established franchise in an NBA arena, OKC could attract out-of-state interests in addition to the local corporations.

Example: Sonic Drive Ins are now owned by a wealthy Atlanta firm, sold for $2.3 billion; they will continue to support the Big 12; it wouldn't be far-fetched for them to bid on arena naming-rights.

Spokesperson: Sonic Headquarters To Stay In OKC After Sold In $2.3 Billion Deal
https://www.news9.com/story/39171777...3-billion-deal

[SEMIweather]

I feel like there's a very good chance that Paycom buys the naming rights.