2019-20 OKC Thunder

[PhiAlpha]

I think we are going around the edges of one of the issue with the Thunder. We have seen the dialogue on PTI wrt the Thunder. Tony K and Steven A are pretty harsh in their commentary on OKC. The Thunder squandering talent and being a NBA outpost narrative is taking hold because of the loss of so much superstar talent (now CP doesn't want to play here). The team overall has not drafted well. The arguments although hurtful, are to a great degree sound. I have said in past posts that Oklahoma in general and OKC is not viewed as a place desired by rich, young African American men (Therefore our inability to attract or retain high profile players that we don't draft). WE are not alone Portland, Sacramento, Salt Lake City and even San Antonio have small black populations but in those instances other variables (Mountains, Culture, Wackiness) or whatever helps to offset the lack of a large black population. The organization has mishandled talent beyond belief and now as never before we are considered by some as an outpost around the league. "I got no chance in OKC" . With All the positives in the 11 years of existence and all the improvements that have been and are being made to the City itself, the PLACE it appears continues to be a detriment to obtaining and retaining the talent needed to win it all. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with this line of thinking however, it bears consideration.

I disagree with the poor drafting narrative. The Thunder drafted very well when they had top 15 picks and landed some talent later in the first round which is difficult to do (Serge Ibaka, Reggie Jackson, & Andre Roberson) and it looks like Diallo is going to end up being a solid second round pick. They've had two notable busts in Cole Aldrich and Cameron Payne at 11 but that's really it over the 13 year history of Presti's tenure as GM. The Thunder have just been good for 10 years and have only had late first round draft picks which are very difficult to hit on.

As far as squandering talent, how exactly have they done that? The one key mistake they made was the Harden trade which at the time, looked like a logical move and the team didn't really miss him over the next two seasons. Had injuries to Westbrook in 2013 playoffs, Ibaka 2014 playoffs and KD in 2015 not derailed them, those teams were good enough to win the championship, especially the 2013 & 2014 teams. Knowing what we know now, the Harden trade was definitely a mistake, but had it not been for injuries over the next few seasons, we probably wouldn't still be talking about it. Also, KD left because he didn't think the team could beat Golden State after we were a quarter away from doing it and had upgraded the roster a lot to go at it again. I've mentioned it 10 times, but had KD not left, that 2016-2017 team might have been the favorite to win the championship. Al Horford also was willing to sign in free agency had KD not bolted.

Most of the team's failures amount primarily to injuries, failing to procure more outside shooting (though the team looked pretty unstoppable last year before PG got hurt), and making the mistake of believing KD when he said he wanted to stay long term. KD leaving blew up the plan.

[dcsooner]

I disagree with the poor drafting narrative. The Thunder drafted very well when they had top 15 picks and landed some talent later in the first round which is difficult to do (Serge Ibaka, Reggie Jackson, & Andre Roberson) and it looks like Diallo is going to end up being a solid second round pick. They've had two notable busts in Cole Aldrich and Cameron Payne at 11 but that's really it over the 13 year history of Presti's tenure as GM. The Thunder have just been good for 10 years and have only had late first round draft picks which are very difficult to hit on.

As far as squandering talent, how exactly have they done that? The one key mistake they made was the Harden trade which at the time, looked like a logical move and the team didn't really miss him over the next two seasons. Had injuries to Westbrook in 2013 playoffs, Ibaka 2014 playoffs and KD in 2015 not derailed them, those teams were good enough to win the championship, especially the 2013 & 2014 teams. Knowing what we know now, the Harden trade was definitely a mistake, but had it not been for injuries over the next few seasons, we probably wouldn't still be talking about it. Also, KD left because he didn't think the team could beat Golden State after we were a quarter away from doing it and had upgraded the roster a lot to go at it again. I've mentioned it 10 times, but had KD not left, that 2016-2017 team might have been the favorite to win the championship. Al Horford also was willing to sign in free agency had KD not bolted.

Most of the team's failures amount primarily to injuries, failing to procure more outside shooting (though the team looked pretty unstoppable last year before PG got hurt), and making the mistake of believing KD when he said he wanted to stay long term. KD leaving blew up the plan.

All valid points. Don’t disagree with any of your observations except the draft /trade position. MOST of our draft/trade athletes have not panned out.

[PhiAlpha]

All valid points. Don’t disagree with any of your observations except the draft /trade position. MOST of our draft/trade athletes have not panned out.

List the teams who have hit on more than 2 or 3 bottom 15 1st round draft picks in the last decade. Outside of The picks that turned into KD, Russ, Harden, Adams, Jeff Green and the two busts I mentioned, that is all that we've had over the last decade

Trades are hit or miss too. Which trades would you say haven't worked out? I would argue that we are better than 50/50 on trades.

[dankrutka]

All valid points. Don’t disagree with any of your observations except the draft /trade position. MOST of our draft/trade athletes have not panned out.

Most draft picks don’t work out for all teams. In the last decade, OKC is far and away the best drafting team in the NBA and it’s not even close. As far as the narrative players don’t want to play in OKC, you’re ignoring both that (a) organizational culture matters (OKC has a good one) and (b) having smart ownership matters (OKC has that in Presti). Remember that Dallas has many desireable factors and has struck out on most free agents for the last 15 years. OKC, for example, is a far more desirable location than Charlotte for players despite geographic, demographic, or cultural shortcomings. OKC will be okay.

[dcsooner]

Most draft picks don’t work out for all teams. In the last decade, OKC is far and away the best drafting team in the NBA and it’s not even close. As far as the narrative players don’t want to play in OKC, you’re ignoring both that (a) organizational culture matters (OKC has a good one) and (b) having smart ownership matters (OKC has that in Presti). Remember that Dallas has many desireable factors and has struck out on most free agents for the last 15 years. OKC, for example, is a far more desirable location than Charlotte for players despite geographic, demographic, or cultural shortcomings. OKC will be okay.

Dunkrutka et al, your perspectives are encouraging. I loathe the naysayers who still question the viability of the market, a little nervous, not wanting us to fall to their nonsense, fail to support our team and potentially lose what has unquestionably been one of the most invaluable additions to the fabric of our ever-changing capital city. I can also acknowledge that this first 11 years has been a learning curve for ownership and GM. I fully expect that going forward our organization having been through these scenarios is much better equipped to navigate the nuances of NBA free agency.

[Dob Hooligan]

Dunkrutka et al, your perspectives are encouraging. I loathe the naysayers who still question the viability of the market, a little nervous, not wanting us to fall to their nonsense, fail to support our team and potentially lose what has unquestionably been one of the most invaluable additions to the fabric of our ever-changing capital city. I can also acknowledge that this first 11 years has been a learning curve for ownership and GM. I fully expect that going forward our organization having been through these scenarios is much better equipped to navigate the nuances of NBA free agency.

Off the top of my head I will suggest that Indiana, New Orleans, Charlotte, Orlando, Denver, Memphis, Phoenix and Sacramento have not had our success on and off the court. They are nowhere near as compelling and interesting at a national media level. I think the Thunder are a top ten national media interest team. They have a better job than almost any team for the last ten years in terms of being relevant and discussed.

For all the ridicule and scorn that Clay Bennett used to get through the 80s until the Thunder arrived (and I am in a unique geographic, business and social position to hear lots of it) he has been a model team governor. And I mean that as a part owner who is the team representative in all league business, I am not being snarky or politically correct. He helped develop the "San Antonio ideal team ownership composition model". Which is roughly 8 local partners who are in different businesses that can withstand economic challenges and never wipe out the team with one event. He actually was the San Antonio representative at the Board of Governors for several years when the Gaylord family was the largest shareholder of the Spurs around 1990 IIRC.

I believe the Thunder ownership is so wealthy, competent and committed to our city that we could survive even an event such as one of them dying, regardless of who. By any objective measure the Thunder has incredible success over the last 11 years. Optimistically I think the best is yet to come.

[PhiAlpha]

Off the top of my head I will suggest that Indiana, New Orleans, Charlotte, Orlando, Denver, Memphis, Phoenix and Sacramento have not had our success on and off the court. They are nowhere near as compelling and interesting at a national media level. I think the Thunder are a top ten national media interest team. They have a better job than almost any team for the last ten years in terms of being relevant and discussed.

For all the ridicule and scorn that Clay Bennett used to get through the 80s until the Thunder arrived (and I am in a unique geographic, business and social position to hear lots of it) he has been a model team governor. And I mean that as a part owner who is the team representative in all league business, I am not being snarky or politically correct. He helped develop the "San Antonio ideal team ownership composition model". Which is roughly 8 local partners who are in different businesses that can withstand economic challenges and never wipe out the team with one event. He actually was the San Antonio representative at the Board of Governors for several years when the Gaylord family was the largest shareholder of the Spurs around 1990 IIRC.

I believe the Thunder ownership is so wealthy, competent and committed to our city that we could survive even an event such as one of them dying, regardless of who. By any objective measure the Thunder has incredible success over the last 11 years. Optimistically I think the best is yet to come.

They already have once. Hopefully they won’t again for awhile.

[checkthat]

Most draft picks don’t work out for all teams. In the last decade, OKC is far and away the best drafting team in the NBA and it’s not even close. As far as the narrative players don’t want to play in OKC, you’re ignoring both that (a) organizational culture matters (OKC has a good one) and (b) having smart ownership matters (OKC has that in Presti). Remember that Dallas has many desireable factors and has struck out on most free agents for the last 15 years. OKC, for example, is a far more desirable location than Charlotte for players despite geographic, demographic, or cultural shortcomings. OKC will be okay.

While I agree that OKC has been the best drafting team, it has to be close with GS drafting Curry, Thompson, and Green in a four year span. It is interesting to note that OKC could have had Curry, picked four spots after James Harden, and Green, seven spots after Perry Jones III. Hopefully Presti's eye is still sharp and he scoops up the best talent of the next generation.

[chuck5815]

While I agree that OKC has been the best drafting team, it has to be close with GS drafting Curry, Thompson, and Green in a four year span. It is interesting to note that OKC could have had Curry, picked four spots after James Harden, and Green, seven spots after Perry Jones III. Hopefully Presti's eye is still sharp and he scoops up the best talent of the next generation.

The problem with these next several drafts, from what I've gathered, is the generational talents are few and far between. There's not going to be very many Durants or Unibrous to be had. I'm sure we'll keep plenty of the picks in-house, but I could also see us trying to move some of them for up and coming type guys on Rookie or below-market deals.

[Laramie]

The problem with these next several drafts, from what I've gathered, is the generational talents are few and far between. There's not going to be very many Durants or Unibrous to be had. I'm sure we'll keep plenty of the picks in-house, but I could also see us trying to move some of them for up and coming type guys on Rookie or below-market deals.

You won't know who's out there; may have several sophomores who may want to declare early.

In 2015 draft, Phoenix selected Devon Booker the 13th pick; we had the 14th pick that year. Think if we could have moved up a few spots. Booker would have been an excellent replacement for Westbrook.