OKC Regional Transit System

[Rover]

Never claimed it was.

Actually, they identified major categories, of which logistics as a whole was one of eight...the 5th listed. The first thing mentioned in their logistics criteria was relating to proximities of highways. Second was time to get to a major airport and air connections to major cities. Third was to identify all other means of transportation available to the site. Given that Amazon is a logistics company first and foremost, this shouldn’t be any surprise.

By the way, it’s location criteria indicated it wanted to be within 30 miles of a population center, not exactly wanting to dictate being IN the center.

Operating costs, incentives, and available labor source were also high priorities.

Also in top 8 was housing costs, cost of living, recreational opportunities, quality of life and community fit.

[HangryHippo]

As they do affordable housing, and cost of living, and good schools, and commute times, and support services, and weather, and entertainment, and cost of doing business, and access to high speed data, and local incentives, and tax rates, and .....
For most, bus stops is a relatively minor data point when considering the future health of a company.

You specifically said, "but they don’t for a bus route either unless a majority of their employees are low paid." The point is they do.

[Rover]

You specifically said, "but they don’t for a bus route either unless a majority of their employees are low paid." The point is they do.

I’ve never worked for, with or consulted for a company that expanded or located because of bus stops. Most executives and well paid personnel don’t ride busses to work, even in bigger more urban cities.

[Teo9969]

You're still wrong. I'd guess it's more like half and half, if even that. If you want to blast truly cheaply built housing with planned obsolescence, go north of Hefner Road all the way up to where-the-hell-ever (with a few exceptions). We used to live on NW 162nd Terrace between May and Penn, and there were literally houses that were the exact floor plan as ours with the exact same address, but on 161st Street, or 163rd Terrace, and that was repeated through the entire crappy subdivision.

We had 2 days to choose a place to rent in OKC when we flew here from Seattle because I got a job offer here and had to move in 2 weeks. You can only look at a few places in your price range and area in that time, we got inside 3 or 4 after driving around for all day each day looking at places. Our first choice was on 50-something-ish street not far from where we currently live, and he ended up taking so long to decide he didn't want to deal with cats that we had to settle for that place and never liked it nor the area, but it was what we had to choose at the time. Our only other choice was to live in a hotel once we moved here and had a truck full of our stuff sitting around until we found a place. Also, we don't have kids, so schools had nothing to do with our decision.

You continue to argue against perceived word choice (I never said "crappy") and arbitrary lines chosen (I understand that Founders Tower is a luxury residential tower that is south of Wilshire and west of May) rather than the crux of the argument. The crux is wide-spread non-competitive housing and business stock. I don't care how nicely built it is, a 900 square foot, 2 bedroom 1 bathroom @ Ann Arbor and 42nd St. is by definition non-competitive because standards of living and location rules the roost of value, not just quality of build.

What higher building standards today can do is increase cost. When you increase the barrier to entry, you force many who have an amount of disposable income to stay put and reinvest in their current area, rather than abandon and take part in the "new, next great neighborhood" because the barrier to entry is, and this is a crux point, artificially low. The issue isn't the rich. The issue is a system that tricks upper middle class and middle class individuals into managing their lives and resources as if they were rich by making it affordable to buy in a neighborhood that is 0/5/10 years old, and sell 15 years later having seen their home value not even keep up with inflation. Middle Class families cannot afford to not have their #1 asset not even keep up with inflation when they're already taking a loss on the interest of their mortgage. Unfortunately, everything is marketed that they're making good decisions and ultimately the losers are not only the individuals, but also the cities that continue to see areas in which they have invested the collective's resources enter a long, sometimes interminable period of degradation and depreciation.

Nobody should be convinced that Ann Arbor and 42nd is going to see renaissance in even our children's lifetimes, especially if nothing is done to curb sprawl. Why would anyone reinvest in that area when it has nothing to offer but a massive renovation project at every level? What we're seeing happen in places like Gatewood took us half a century to return to after many began to abandon these areas. The difference between Gatewood today and 42nd and Ann Arbor, is proximity to the urban core and relative lack of competition for a similar lifestyle experience. There may be various neighborhoods in OKC's core, but there is only one core, and those lines are permanently drawn by interstate highways. Some tangential areas may benefit from the boom, but once we reach the point of critical mass in the core, even if the next step is to move back out into the areas built out in the 50s and 60s, there are so many more 50s/60s era neighborhoods and a limited supply of people with resources to invest in them. The supply and demand economics will not favor these areas the same way it did the areas that have been undergoing "gentrification" over the last 10 to 25 years all throughout American cities.

The crux, again, is non-competitive. Nobody here who is bemoaning "idealistic urbanists" is providing 1. good arguments as to why we should continue to promote policy that creates the aforementioned development patterns or 2. good counterarguments to why we shouldn't consider new policies that curb those same patterns (and they *are* patterns). And to tie this back into the the theme of the thread, Rover, in a counter argument said I am blaming the rich for why we didn't get a regional transit system. 1. I'm not blaming the rich, I'm blaming the system, that the rich exploit to their advantage (I'm not interested in dogging them for continuing to do something they've been doing for thousands of years). 2. we're not going to not get a regional transit system. We'll get a regional transit system and 42nd and Ann Arbor is going to be largely ignored which will only increase the non-competitive factor of the area.

And lest anyone get overzealous about their beloved PCO area, 42nd and Ann Arbor is a cipher that represents any of 50,000 (also a cipher) different intersections in this city that will likely see a continued decline well into the end of this century.

[David]

ODOT creates office for mass transit

OKLAHOMA CITY – The Oklahoma Department of Transportation announced Monday the formation of the new Office of Mobility and Public Transit, which will focus on coordinating statewide efforts to expand Oklahoma’s public transportation infrastructure.

Legislated under House Bill 1365, the new office will take on all existing responsibilities from ODOT’s Transit Division, including oversight and management of the state’s public transit systems and the federal grants the agency receives. The office will also work to develop a major statewide public transit policy that will address major expansions to the state’s current public transit networks, especially into rural Oklahoma.

“The public in Oklahoma has probably never been more focused on transit,” said ODOT Executive Director Tim Gatz. “We have dedicated revenues at both the state and federal level that are available for transit services in both the urban and rural areas, and the department is the state’s designee to administer those funds for the rural operators.”

...

[HOT ROD]

rural Oklahoma? the transit focus needs to be in the urban areas and from the suburbs to urban areas. ...

Why WHY does this state always get civic amenities/spending so backwards? Rural is rural for a reason - there's no need to send a bus empty out in rural Oklahoma just for the sake of it. ... You'd NEVER have MASS transit in rural areas. Chose to live in rural and invest in the resources (car) to do so.

Mass Transit is about urban connectivity - so ODOT need to change their mission or get out of this business and leave it to the cities. ... They should have told the truth - this mission is about supporting urban areas (OKC Metro's) transit expansion and not put foot in their mouth talking about rural transit.

[Teo9969]

Any news on the RTD progress? How are the stakeholders feeling about timing/chance of success for a tax increase since MAPS 4 passed?

[SEMIweather]

I just mentioned the RTA in another election thread, which reminds me, does anyone have an approximate timeframe on when this is going to be voted on?

Also, does this need to pass with 50%+ in all six jurisdictions, or does it just need 50% overall?

[shawnw]

All the estimates I saw after it was formed officially was two years from that point.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is a bit off topic but since its slow I thought given many following this appreciate transit and London has embarked on an incredible expansion of their subway system. I can't wait to explore it one day this looks insane.

Here is a post with pictures from SSP: http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/show...&postcount=376

A YouTube video from B1M which is an awesome channel showcasing development and engineering around the world:

[AP]

Wonderful video. Thank you for sharing.

[David]

Yeah, that was really cool.

[HangryHippo]

Those pictures are incredible.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeap and if you are into that check out their other videos. They have some pretty great stuff.

It’s sad we can’t even expand our light rail and get commuter rail going. Hopefully that changes soon.

[jonny d]

Yeap and if you are into that check out their other videos. They have some pretty great stuff.

It’s sad we can’t even expand our light rail and get commuter rail going. Hopefully that changes soon.

You see that cost? No way Oklahoma could ever get anywhere close to funding anything remotely like that. Oklahoma gets the shaft from the Feds in terms of funding, and the state does not have a ton of funds, either. London is more dense than OK ever will be, and has 5 times as many people.

Yes, rail would be nice. But with how spread out the city is, there is not really a fiscally feasible way to go about connecting areas without alienating others. Just my opinion, though.

[Plutonic Panda]

You see that cost? No way Oklahoma could ever get anywhere close to funding anything remotely like that. Oklahoma gets the shaft from the Feds in terms of funding, and the state does not have a ton of funds, either. London is more dense than OK ever will be, and has 5 times as many people.

Yes, rail would be nice. But with how spread out the city is, there is not really a fiscally feasible way to go about connecting areas without alienating others. Just my opinion, though.

Well of course something like that won’t ever see the light of day here but we should have light rail(NOT STREETCAR) for the south side, connecting Norman, and commuter rail connecting Edmond with real bus service. Our mass transit is a joke and my comparison is how near space age transit is being built in London and japan and we can’t even get commuter rail going.

IIRC, commuter rail here was said to be operational within the next few years but that doesn’t look like a remote possibility now.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

In Oklahoma's defense, the entire town of Little Axe could fit comfortably in Tottenham Court stop.
Assuming you removed the 6 billion people normally jamming that tube stop at rush hour.

[OKC Guy]

Just saw this wonder who doles out the money to cities and how much OKC gets?


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Big news, Oklahoma! I’m proud to support infrastructure in your state with $13.7 million from @USDOT for bus improvements across the state. SO important for helping people get where they need to go safely.
1:41 PM · Aug 12, 2020·T

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...18631943901185

[shawnw]

RTA now has a website and social media (Twitter, FB)

https://rtaok.org/

[Plutonic Panda]

Awesome!

[Plutonic Panda]

According to a link on their site they said the NWE BRT should begin construction Q3 2021. That is good news and it will take a couple years to complete which leads me to believe this won’t be some amateur rank project. I am excited to see more renderings and plans.

I’m still mixed on reducing classen to 2 lanes instead of three but oh well. I just wish they’d widen the footprint of the road a hair to allow for class 4 bike lane.

[HOT ROD]

pretty nice front page if you ask me.

RTA now has a website and social media (Twitter, FB)

https://rtaok.org/

I'm surprised they didn't have a dedicated section for BRT (instead put it in "Other" future modes), since OKC is already building BRT. OKC built/started Streetcar and it has a section but not BRT?

[shawnw]

Regarding RTA tax vote.



https://twitter.com/RTACentral/statu...44749444050944

No firm timeline not at the moment.

[Hutch]

[shawnw]

I will be attending, but also what's the point of having social media if these kinds of things aren't going to be released there?