Ideas 4 MAPS

[dankrutka]

The truth may simply be that MAPS has run its course. There are no new, blockbuster ideas or big projects that are really needed.

I have always had an uneasy feeling about MAPS. On the one hand, it sparked growth. On the other, using a regressive sales tax to fund projects that primarily appeal to the middle/upper class is very problematic. Having said that, there are still transformative projects that could change OKC in ways that likely wouldn't happen otherwise. My two favorite ideas are a MAPS focused on (a) social work issues like homelessness, addiction, and related issues or (b) MAPS for transportation that dedicates money to sidewalks, protected bike lanes, and streetcar expansion. If you think big, MAPS could result in huge changes in either or both areas. For example, what if with option A OKC built housing for homeless as done in Salt Lake City or helped to support wrap-around services at OKC schools to help address many of the physical and mental health challenges students face. I don't know. I'm just throwing out ideas for theme-oriented MAPS. Of course, you could have a hodgepodge MAPS, but it is worth asking whether those types of changes will be transformative.

[Pete]

If we really wanted to do something transformational, allocate all $1B to protected bike lanes and related bike infrastructure.

That is the only way we will ever be able to make a dent in an otherwise overwhelming problem.

It would also be the best economic development tool ever, as it would instantly bring attention to younger, more energetic people (the creative class) and help keep the same here. It would also be a great asset to people in lower income brackets who would instantly have a viable and inexpensive way to get around this sprawling, car-centric town.

And help deal with massive obesity and general poor health issues that plague this city and state.


But, alas, they are talking about throwing $50M at bike lanes, paths and sidewalks, not enough to do much of anything.

[jedicurt]

If we really wanted to do something transformational, allocate all $1B to protected bike lanes and related bike infrastructure.

That is the only way we will ever be able to make a dent in an otherwise overwhelming problem.

It would also be the best economic development tool ever, as it would instantly bring attention to younger, more energetic people (the creative class) and help keep the same here. It would also be a great asset to people in lower income brackets who would instantly have a viable and inexpensive way to get around this sprawling, car-centric town.

And help deal with massive obesity and general poor health issues that plague this city and state.


But, alas, they are talking about throwing $50M at bike lanes, paths and sidewalks, not enough to do much of anything.

agreed... why i think a full maps just for sidewalks, trails, bike lanes, pedestrian walkways, and public transit would be amazing... but i also know will never happen

[Ross MacLochness]

If we really wanted to do something transformational, allocate all $1B to protected bike lanes and related bike infrastructure.

That is the only way we will ever be able to make a dent in an otherwise overwhelming problem.

It would also be the best economic development tool ever, as it would instantly bring attention to younger, more energetic people (the creative class) and help keep the same here. It would also be a great asset to people in lower income brackets who would instantly have a viable and inexpensive way to get around this sprawling, car-centric town.

And help deal with massive obesity and general poor health issues that plague this city and state.


But, alas, they are talking about throwing $50M at bike lanes, paths and sidewalks, not enough to do much of anything.

Here here! (hear hear??) To me this is one of the best things we can do to improve quality of life for all people. It's not an intuitive idea for most people though.

[Pete]

I say this all the time, but bike infrastructure isn't just for the Dutch and hipsters on trendy fixed-gear bikes.

It's a legit means of transportation and recreation for everyone.

I live near some lower income housing and many times I see people coming home in the dark of night on their bikes, after a long day of work. Incredibly dangerous, but what choice do they have?

Also, I was a very avid cyclist in California and my two expensive bikes have gathered a thick layer of dust since moving to OKC. I went out a few times and other than the dedicated bike paths -- which you have to drive to -- I feel very, very unsafe elsewhere.

[jn1780]

MAPS needs to be rebranded/scaled down. The things the city needs will require continuous funding which can't be accomplished through one time cash infusions. MAPS 3 was used to get a couple of unpopular, but perhaps needed items passed, but that doesn't work anymore when their are not really any a high profile items on the ticket.

[Laramie]

Agree we could do more for the bikes, (no offense) especially if it gets these unhealthy folks off the couch away from those deadly workouts at the dinner table.

My only problem with the short term MAPS is getting the voters to buy in on what the council presents before the voters. Also true, the coliseum could be funded thru bonds based on its tremendous use.

A longer term MAPS 4 could have a $50 million (5%) fund built into the initiative to provide for 'unforeseen capital improvements projects or expenses.' The fund would be exclusive of the contingency fund.

United Soccer League have put franchises on notice as early as 2015: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/...-stadiums-2020 It's not like we didn't see this coming.

“A critical part of our strategic growth plan is to have all USL clubs as owners or primary tenants of soccer-specific stadiums by 2020,”

Time is running out: we will lose USL AAA soccer without a soccer specific stadium, the franchise ownership could be forced to forfeit the franchise where it would be sold and relocated to another city.

[Goon]

Time is running out: we will lose USL AAA soccer without a soccer specific stadium, the franchise ownership could be forced to forfeit the franchise where it would be sold and relocated to another city.

That's a good point. Too bad the Producer's Coop deal fell through; I want to see something like this, but not funded by MAPS, or at least not this iteration of MAPS.

Let them try in 2027 with the next GO bond cycle, or pay for construction on their own. I'd like to see MAPS 4 alter its focus a bit.

[dankrutka]

I would 100% support a MAPS bike lanes. Can you imagine how that would re-make OKC? I honestly think it would transform OKC's image in tremendous ways in addition to the health, economic (e.g., cyclists/pedestrians frequent local places more than chains), and sustainability (e.g., cities need to consider remaking infrastructure as the climate change crisis may require it sooner than many expect).

[OKCRT]

agreed... why i think a full maps just for sidewalks, trails, bike lanes, pedestrian walkways, and public transit would be amazing... but i also know will never happen

The special interests folks would never go for that. They wouldn't be able to line their pockets with projects aimed at helping the common folk.

[Plutonic Panda]

Let's be completely real here: how many really think a MAPS for bike lanes would pass. While I wouldn't be against it, it seems DOA.

[OKCRT]

Let's be completely real here: how many really think a MAPS for bike lanes would pass. While I wouldn't be against it, it seems DOA.

It would never pass on it's own but I bet there would be more folks using bike paths than going to minor league soccer games.

[Jersey Boss]

It would pass if the mayor and several council members used some political capital

[soonerguru]

Oh good grief. This MAPS will be great just like the others. There will be projects you love and projects you don't. The brand is strong and in the end they will come up with the right mix of projects to appeal to voters. I have no doubt. i only liked about three of the MAPS three items but in the end, I'm excited about the Convention Center. Just an example. If we want to be like Cincinnati or Atlanta or something I guess we can dispense with MAPS and allow the suburbs to run the show. I have nothing against either city but they don't have the ability to do anything to move the ball forward like we do in MAPS.

If the projects and ideas are bad, it won't pass, but I think the projects and ideas will end up being good.

[OKC Guy]

If we really wanted to do something transformational, allocate all $1B to protected bike lanes and related bike infrastructure.

That is the only way we will ever be able to make a dent in an otherwise overwhelming problem.

It would also be the best economic development tool ever, as it would instantly bring attention to younger, more energetic people (the creative class) and help keep the same here. It would also be a great asset to people in lower income brackets who would instantly have a viable and inexpensive way to get around this sprawling, car-centric town.

And help deal with massive obesity and general poor health issues that plague this city and state.


But, alas, they are talking about throwing $50M at bike lanes, paths and sidewalks, not enough to do much of anything.

Pete, right or wrong this would never pass. You are talking about one of the most spread out cities in the country. Agree or not its car centric and to spend 10 years solely on bike/road add ons would be DOA. $1B is 10 years of MAPS tax. This means nothing else gets done not even buses. Not trying to be debbie downer or grade it on merits rather the reality of our population. If all voters see nothing in it for them they will vote no. And I have no idea but guess less than 2% ride bikes on roads here. Novel idea but its too narrow in scope to get a passing vote.

[mugofbeer]

I haven't ridden in years but tell me why this wouldn't work. Why can't certain streets - like, for example, NW 17th and Harvey (or Hudson or Robinson or Walker) be used as bike/bus only, cars - LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY? Then people can bike virtually traffic free while not interfering with busy auto routes. Obviously, the routes would change and move to other streets but it seems like it would prevent the need to spend a friggin' billion dollars on bike lanes, keep major traffic arteries while route residents should be perfectly happy with the arrangement. Im sure adequate side road routes could be found in most places in the city. Where side roads dont exist, THEN look to building new routes. I'd bet a pretty decent system could be set up for $10-20 million instead of the hundreds of millions to billions being thrown around.

[hoya]

I haven't ridden in years but tell me why this wouldn't work. Why can't certain streets - like, for example, NW 17th and Harvey (or Hudson or Robinson or Walker) be used as bike/bus only, cars - LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY? Then people can bike virtually traffic free while not interfering with busy auto routes. Obviously, the routes would change and move to other streets but it seems like it would prevent the need to spend a friggin' billion dollars on bike lanes, keep major traffic arteries while route residents should be perfectly happy with the arrangement. Im sure adequate side road routes could be found in most places in the city. Where side roads dont exist, THEN look to building new routes. I'd bet a pretty decent system could be set up for $10-20 million instead of the hundreds of millions to billions being thrown around.

That's why a page or two ago, I suggested capping some of the creeks/drainage ditches on the south side and converting them into into jogging/biking trails. Those creeks kind of meander through the city, and hit multiple neighborhoods. I presume the city already owns them. The only time you'd be exposed to traffic would be when you cross a major street. There's nothing like this on the north side, but on the south side it would give you two major paths to build your jogging/biking trail system around.

[okccowan]

That's why a page or two ago, I suggested capping some of the creeks/drainage ditches on the south side and converting them into into jogging/biking trails. Those creeks kind of meander through the city, and hit multiple neighborhoods. I presume the city already owns them. The only time you'd be exposed to traffic would be when you cross a major street. There's nothing like this on the north side, but on the south side it would give you two major paths to build your jogging/biking trail system around.

This is a fantastic idea. There are bike trails like this in the DC metro.

[David]

Maybe I am not envisioning it right, but that sounds amazingly expensive to me. Wouldn't it basically have to take the form of a lengthwise bridge over the entirety of the creek/drainage ditch in question?

[Plutonic Panda]

I hope OKC doesn't cap its urban creeks. I think many cities are uncapping them where possible.

[HangryHippo]

I hope OKC doesn't cap its urban creeks. I think many cities are uncapping them where possible.

I was just about to post the same thing. I was trying to find the (now old) story of the river in South Korea that they've worked to uncap.

[OKCRT]

I would hope they would put more money in the streetcar and at least double the miles of tracks.

[Laramie]

I would hope they would put more money in the streetcar and at least double the miles of tracks.

Once they get the convention center complex completed; they'll have a better grasp about the potential expansion of the streetcar. It will be to late to put it on MAPS IV; then again if MAPS IV is over $1 billion they may be room to build or consider some additional items. Don't look for the streetcar to be one of them unless the demand skyrockets.

They should have learned from previous MAPS initiatives to budget a little extra for cost overruns in addition to contingency money.

MAPS III infrastructure contingency ($17 million): https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-...re-contingency

[Urban Pioneer]

I have an internal meeting about possible streetcar extensions tomorrow. If this something that you feel passionate about, I would encourage you to attend the upcoming MAPS 4 public meeting regarding public transit-

City Hall (Municipal Building) Council Chambers
9:00 AM
July 31st

I did write a pretty extensive report about the improvements that needed to be completed to the bus system. Pete has a copy of that and it looks like most of those proposed bus system improvements from the report are going to stick.

[Midtowner]

Time is running out: we will lose USL AAA soccer without a soccer specific stadium, the franchise ownership could be forced to forfeit the franchise where it would be sold and relocated to another city.

Pro-MAPS voters generally do show up to vote. The anti-MAPS voters generally are very vocal, but they don't vote. MAPS projects have passed by comfortable margins, and will continue to do so, unless we see something like a soccer stadium.

I highly doubt your typical MAPS voter is much of a soccer fan. There aren't really that many soccer fans in OKC. USL is only attracting 4,600 per game. Baseball seasons are 140 games or so with soccer being only 34 (1/2 of each away). USL is nowhere close to being the draw the Dodgers are. It would make more sense to renovate the Dodgers' stadium than to build a new one for a USL team whose league appears to be ratcheting up demands on franchises.

We shouldn't be in the business of responding to arbitrary deadlines from third-rate sports franchises.