Ideas 4 MAPS

[OKC Guy]

Ran across this and figured it has some significance due to local soccer stadium discussion as part of MAPS. This is quote a bit more aggressive though:

North Carolina FC, Kane Realty Propose $2 Billion Downtown Raleigh Development
By USLChampionship.com Staff, 06/25/19, 10:39AM EDT

STADIUM AND MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT WOULD GENERATE $3.8 BILLION IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY

RALEIGH, N.C. – John Kane and Steve Malik announced plans on Tuesday for a development that will transform the landscape of downtown Raleigh and become a hub for sports and entertainment in the community.

The project, which is being proposed by the North Carolina Football Club and Kane Realty Corporation, would address the demand for a large downtown sports and entertainment venue. It is expected to boost tourism, drawing additional visitors to Raleigh and Wake County, create jobs and revitalize an underused area of downtown Raleigh. The Downtown Raleigh Entertainment District, to be named Downtown South, will become an anchor for additional development and growth.

“This project holds tremendous promise for the City of Raleigh,” said Kane, CEO of Kane Realty Corporation. “It’s unlike anything I’ve worked on in my career. To be part of something that would enhance the lifestyle and overall appeal of our city while strengthening the local economy in such a meaningful way is powerful. I’m hopeful that the Raleigh City Council and Board of County Commissioners will enable this transformational project to become a reality.”

The proposed Downtown Raleigh Entertainment District sits on approximately 55 acres at downtown Raleigh’s southern edge at the intersection of South Saunders Street and Interstate 40. The development includes a multi-purpose, 20,000-seat open-air Downtown Sports & Entertainment Stadium surrounded by more than $1.9 billion in private development of street-level retail, office space, and housing. The stadium will become the home of the North Carolina Football Club, including its men's pro soccer team, North Carolina FC, and its women's pro soccer team, North Carolina Courage, and accommodate a variety of marquee events, including concerts, festivals, graduations, trade shows, and championship-level sporting events.

Read more with pics:

https://www.uslchampionship.com/news...e/show/1030926

[betts]

Has anyone heard anything about a proposed new animal shelter as part of MAPS? I have a couple of friends very involved in animal rescue and they told me about this group interested in getting funding for this. They have a website I just visited: https://pawsformaps4.com/

I haven’t visited any local shelters, but I know they can be quite overcrowded and grim. This seems like a worthwhile use of some of the monies to me.

[king183]

Has anyone heard anything about a proposed new animal shelter as part of MAPS? I have a couple of friends very involved in animal rescue and they told me about this group interested in getting funding for this. They have a website I just visited: https://pawsformaps4.com/

I haven’t visited any local shelters, but I know they can be quite overcrowded and grim. This seems like a worthwhile use of some of the monies to me.

I would give 100% of my support to a new animal shelter. Our current shelter is a sad and I don't envy the shelter workers who have to work there and provide care to animals in inadequate facilities.

[mugofbeer]

Has anyone heard anything about a proposed new animal shelter as part of MAPS? I have a couple of friends very involved in animal rescue and they told me about this group interested in getting funding for this. They have a website I just visited: https://pawsformaps4.com/

I haven’t visited any local shelters, but I know they can be quite overcrowded and grim. This seems like a worthwhile use of some of the monies to me.

Now this is something we can agree on! Is the shelter still that awful place out on east 23rd?

[jn1780]

I would support this. Maybe even move it closer to the core. South side of river somewhere?

[BoulderSooner]

I would support this. Maybe even move it closer to the core. South side of river somewhere?

if i remember correctly it would be just to the south of I40 just next to the north edge of the south part of the park

[Pete]

The facility near the lower park is for the humane society, which is a private operation:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.p...70#post1063070


The MAPS project would be to replace/improve the existing city animal shelter.

The two groups actually work together, but are separate.

[jn1780]

The facility near the lower park is for the humane society, which is a private operation:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.p...70#post1063070


The MAPS project would be to replace/improve the existing city animal shelter.

The two groups actually work together, but are separate.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking about the Humane Society when I thought about relocating it somewhere in this area. I don't think we would want to put the Animal Shelter adjacent to the park though. The idea of having a centralize place to adopt a pet sounds nice though.

[Pete]

In many ways, the humane society is the happy face of animal control.

They take some, but not all, dogs and cats from the shelter, have a great foster program and then an excellent record of adoption.

They focus on the animals most likely to be adopted and try to get them quickly placed in good homes.

[Laramie]

Ran across this and figured it has some significance due to local soccer stadium discussion as part of MAPS. This is quote a bit more aggressive though:

North Carolina FC, Kane Realty Propose $2 Billion Downtown Raleigh Development
By USLChampionship.com Staff, 06/25/19, 10:39AM EDT

STADIUM AND MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT WOULD GENERATE $3.8 BILLION IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY

RALEIGH, N.C. – John Kane and Steve Malik announced plans on Tuesday for a development that will transform the landscape of downtown Raleigh and become a hub for sports and entertainment in the community.

The project, which is being proposed by the North Carolina Football Club and Kane Realty Corporation, would address the demand for a large downtown sports and entertainment venue. It is expected to boost tourism, drawing additional visitors to Raleigh and Wake County, create jobs and revitalize an underused area of downtown Raleigh. The Downtown Raleigh Entertainment District, to be named Downtown South, will become an anchor for additional development and growth.

“This project holds tremendous promise for the City of Raleigh,” said Kane, CEO of Kane Realty Corporation. “It’s unlike anything I’ve worked on in my career. To be part of something that would enhance the lifestyle and overall appeal of our city while strengthening the local economy in such a meaningful way is powerful. I’m hopeful that the Raleigh City Council and Board of County Commissioners will enable this transformational project to become a reality.”

The proposed Downtown Raleigh Entertainment District sits on approximately 55 acres at downtown Raleigh’s southern edge at the intersection of South Saunders Street and Interstate 40. The development includes a multi-purpose, 20,000-seat open-air Downtown Sports & Entertainment Stadium surrounded by more than $1.9 billion in private development of street-level retail, office space, and housing. The stadium will become the home of the North Carolina Football Club, including its men's pro soccer team, North Carolina FC, and its women's pro soccer team, North Carolina Courage, and accommodate a variety of marquee events, including concerts, festivals, graduations, trade shows, and championship-level sporting events.

Read more with pics:

https://www.uslchampionship.com/news...e/show/1030926

Good post OKC Guy:

A reason why we need to get a soccer-American football stadium built before the potential cost of construction becomes an overwhelming issue. Raleigh is pushing for a 20K stadium that will be MLS ready.

Raleigh is very aggressive toward new businesses for corporate relocation & expansion; pieces that complement what they have in place like excellent higher learning institutions in North Carolina State & Duke along with some historical Black colleges.

Raleigh competes with intrastate rival Charlotte; together the state support NFL, NBA & NHL. N. C. is well rounded with quality of life support.

OKC has the MAPS 4 Stadium & Coliseum proposed with nice amenities.

My hope is we cover enough quality projects in MAPS 4 to get city-wide approval; continue to improve 'quality of life.' $1 billion or more in project initiatives may be up for approval in 2020.

[jonny d]

Good post OKC Guy:

A reason why we need to get a soccer-American football stadium built before the potential cost of construction becomes an overwhelming issue. Raleigh is pushing for a 20K stadium that will be MLS ready.

Raleigh is very aggressive toward new businesses for corporate relocation & expansion; pieces that complement what they have in place like excellent higher learning institutions in North Carolina State & Duke along with some historical Black colleges.

Raleigh competes with intrastate rival Charlotte; together the state support NFL, NBA & NHL. N. C. is well rounded with quality of life support.

OKC has the MAPS 4 Stadium & Coliseum proposed with nice amenities.

My hope is we cover enough quality projects in MAPS 4 to get city-wide approval; continue to improve 'quality of life.' $1 billion or more in project initiatives may be up for approval in 2020.

The problem is, OKC has a hard time getting major private investments for things like that. And with the Omni basically owning downtown, a major hotel is out. Until OKC gets some major investment players, we will not be able to get developments like that downtown. So promising or basing MAPS votes on pie in the sky dreams and hopes is not a good way to go about it.

[OKCRT]

The problem is, OKC has a hard time getting major private investments for things like that. And with the Omni basically owning downtown, a major hotel is out. Until OKC gets some major investment players, we will not be able to get developments like that downtown. So promising or basing MAPS votes on pie in the sky dreams and hopes is not a good way to go about it.

Yes if they want to build a minor league soccer stadium and a bigger fancier horse barn let the people that will be profiting on these items pay 1/2 and charge a ticket tax for the rest. They shouldn't put the burden on the majority of OKC tax payers that will never use these places. Build them in Edmond- Moore or Norman and let those tax payers pay for them if they wish. They are going to end up killing maps if they keep this up.

[OKC Guy]

Yes if they want to build a minor league soccer stadium and a bigger fancier horse barn let the people that will be profiting on these items pay 1/2 and charge a ticket tax for the rest. They shouldn't put the burden on the majority of OKC tax payers that will never use these places. Build them in Edmond- Moore or Norman and let those tax payers pay for them if they wish. They are going to end up killing maps if they keep this up.

Some comments:

I think MAPS is DOA as it is. Need to scale it down to 2-3 year approvals. Doing the massive 10 year MAPS worked when we had nothing but now we are more in the fine tuning vs major needs mode.

Not saying I an for stadium but your analogy is flawed. Streetcar is supposed to bring in more business so should the businesses along its route pay for it? Or convention goers pay for its building? Project are done for the community. I would say in a months time the soccer stadium would have more users than SC. Its also used for many other events like concerts and even graduations. Peake has returned the best value of all MAPS. Baseball stadium has been a great venue. Those owners did not pay so why now? Is it because of disliking that sport?

SC cost more than a soccer stadium would and the upkeep costs are tens times more as well. Most residents will never use it, tourists will.

[GoGators]

Some comments:

I think MAPS is DOA as it is. Need to scale it down to 2-3 year approvals. Doing the massive 10 year MAPS worked when we had nothing but now we are more in the fine tuning vs major needs mode.

Not saying I an for stadium but your analogy is flawed. Streetcar is supposed to bring in more business so should the businesses along its route pay for it? Or convention goers pay for its building? Project are done for the community. I would say in a months time the soccer stadium would have more users than SC. Its also used for many other events like concerts and even graduations. Peake has returned the best value of all MAPS. Baseball stadium has been a great venue. Those owners did not pay so why now? Is it because of disliking that sport?

SC cost more than a soccer stadium would and the upkeep costs are tens times more as well. Most residents will never use it, tourists will.

I’m beginning to get the impression that you may not be a fan of the streetcar.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City is in a major transition period. We are competitive with other cities; MAPS has worked. Projects like the coliseum & stadium will generate enough income to pay for operating expenses as we've seen with Chesapeake Arena, Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark and other MAPS projects open to the public including the Streetcar.

Crossroads Consulting, a nationally recognized expert in large public venue (LPV) consulting, found a new State Fair Park Coliseum would generate more than $230 million a year in direct spending and more than $400 million a year in total economic impact.

New projects at State Fair Park will increase our sales tax base with new money spent in our community which has a tremendous economic impact on growth--same is projected for our convention center complex under construction. Participate in the input process MAPS 4 has made available.

We are the 27th most populated city in the country; 5,000 more estimated residents than Las Vegas, they had 5,000 more residents than OKC in the 2010 census

27 Oklahoma City . . . 2019 - 649,021 2010 - 579,999 +11.90% Growth rate.
28 Las Vegas . . . . . . . 2019 - 644,644 2010 - 583,756 +10.43% Growth rate.

Our growth over the past 29 years (1990-2019) has been attributed to MAPS; it elevated OKC to a competitive level--now is not the time to put on the breaks.

[OKC Guy]

Oklahoma City is in a major transition period. We are competitive with other cities; MAPS has worked. Projects like the coliseum & stadium will generate enough income to pay for operating expenses as we've seen with Chesapeake Arena, Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark and other MAPS projects open to the public including the Streetcar.



New projects at State Fair Park will increase our sales tax base with new money spent in our community which has a tremendous economic impact on growth--same is projected for our convention center complex under construction. Participate in the input process MAPS 4 has made available.

We are the 27th most populated city in the country; 5,000 more estimated residents than Las Vegas, they had 5,000 more residents than OKC in the 2010 census

27 Oklahoma City . . . 2019 - 649,021 2010 - 579,999 +11.90% Growth rate.
28 Las Vegas . . . . . . . 2019 - 644,644 2010 - 583,756 +10.43% Growth rate.

Our growth over the past 29 years (1990-2019) has been attributed to MAPS; it elevated OKC to a competitive level--now is not the time to put on the breaks.

Good info.

To clarify my position. I am for MAPS and of all prior projects have been for them except 1.

My take is the current method of doing MAPS is not good due to it lasting so many years. The first 3 were needed to be massive due to “catching up”. Now that we are at least in the hunt I want us to change MAPS into 2-3 years at a time vice 8-10 years.

Our city has changed and now we are at the point where we have to do things smartly. Look at how much has changed in last 10 years. By doing another 8-10 year MAPS means no changes to it can happen for a decade. Thats too long, and I think if left as is (8-10 year plan) it will fail at the voting box.

What I propose is to do them in shorter stretches of 2-3 years. People are more picky now and long term MAPS will fail. The shorter term MAPS can be more focused and the good thing is if your project isn’t listed its only a few years until the next one. Once we pass a 2-3 year MAPS planning work can start on the next one. This keeps it active in voters minds and most importantly allows us as a city to adjust quicker to changing needs. 10 year MAPS allow nothing to be adjusted forever it seems. Do them at $200-$300m per cycle. It also gives voters hope that if their wanted project isn’t on current one it might be on the next one in a few years. Putting too much into one bill means higher risk of no votes if either your project isn’t listed or a project you are against is.

What I’m afraid will happen is the 10 year MAPS will fail and thus we will have lost all momentum of last 30 years. Smaller ones, if they fail we would have another readjusted one shortly after - once we learn why it failed and adjust. And we can adjust to growing needs much faster.

So in closing, do short 2-3 year long MAPS and you stand a better change of passing and adapting to changing needs faster.

[hoya]

Good info.

To clarify my position. I am for MAPS and of all prior projects have been for them except 1.

My take is the current method of doing MAPS is not good due to it lasting so many years. The first 3 were needed to be massive due to “catching up”. Now that we are at least in the hunt I want us to change MAPS into 2-3 years at a time vice 8-10 years.

Our city has changed and now we are at the point where we have to do things smartly. Look at how much has changed in last 10 years. By doing another 8-10 year MAPS means no changes to it can happen for a decade. Thats too long, and I think if left as is (8-10 year plan) it will fail at the voting box.

What I propose is to do them in shorter stretches of 2-3 years. People are more picky now and long term MAPS will fail. The shorter term MAPS can be more focused and the good thing is if your project isn’t listed its only a few years until the next one. Once we pass a 2-3 year MAPS planning work can start on the next one. This keeps it active in voters minds and most importantly allows us as a city to adjust quicker to changing needs. 10 year MAPS allow nothing to be adjusted forever it seems. Do them at $200-$300m per cycle. It also gives voters hope that if their wanted project isn’t on current one it might be on the next one in a few years. Putting too much into one bill means higher risk of no votes if either your project isn’t listed or a project you are against is.

What I’m afraid will happen is the 10 year MAPS will fail and thus we will have lost all momentum of last 30 years. Smaller ones, if they fail we would have another readjusted one shortly after - once we learn why it failed and adjust. And we can adjust to growing needs much faster.

So in closing, do short 2-3 year long MAPS and you stand a better change of passing and adapting to changing needs faster.

Actually I think this is not a bad idea. Particularly right now, when I think we don't have any real game changers proposed for MAPS 4. A series of "Micro MAPS" projects, each one lasting 1 to 2 years, could be implemented more quickly and make us more responsive.

[BoulderSooner]

if this maps fails (and i worry it might) it will be because the powers that be strayed from what has alwasy made maps work

[Pete]

I'm starting to believe they may jettison the soccer stadium in order to try and salvage the election, as it's wildly unpopular.

The truth may simply be that MAPS has run its course. There are no new, blockbuster ideas or big projects that are really needed. And even something like the State Fair Arena could be funded in a different, and perhaps more appropriate way.


MAPS was always meant to jump-start and get things rolling in the right direction; hence the 'temporary' tagline. It has more than accomplished that and it may be time to let it go and start looking at different ways to service the on-going needs that seem to operational rather than capital, like transportation and mental health.

[soonerguru]

Put me down as a solid "Yes" on the idea of a new animal shelter. I think that would have broad public appeal as well and fits the MAPS mold pretty well.

[Pete]

Put me down as a solid "Yes" on the idea of a new animal shelter. I think that would have broad public appeal as well and fits the MAPS mold pretty well.

Could be very easily funded through GO Bonds.

[soonerguru]

Could be very easily funded through GO Bonds.

Or MAPS.

[Urban Pioneer]

i’m beginning to get the impression that you may not be a fan of the streetcar.

lolz!

[Pete]

Or MAPS.

We don't need to tax people $1B for a new animal shelter.

[Urban Pioneer]

Aren't they asking for $40 million out of $800?