OKC Regional Transit System

[Dob Hooligan]

As a political matter, I can't imagine the State Capitol Corridor not wanting a stop or being denied one.

[BoulderSooner]

As a political matter, I can't imagine the State Capitol Corridor not wanting a stop or being denied one.

unless they are contributing money they could absolutly be denied one

[hoya]

I don't know if commuter rail should skip 23rd street or not. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on that. But if it does get left out, I think the streetcar should have a dedicated 23rd street expansion. Maybe the city could coordinate with the state to include the capitol in a mass transit system, and get some funding from them.

[HOT ROD]

I'm actually glad you brought up Seattle. It got me reading about how their system works and was funded. It's only solidified my opinion. From wiki:
"The predecessor to Sound Transit was a 1995 ballot measure that was rejected by voters because of its $6.7 billion cost.[7] The first Sound Transit ballot measure passed in 1996 as the current mix of buses, commuter rail and light rail, at a cost of $3.9 billion. By proposing a much smaller light rail system, the remaining funds could be used for the two other services, ensuring that the entire Seattle area received services from the measure.“ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit

Seattle got light rail as part of the deal for the suburbs’ commuter rail. It sounds like their regional transit plan acknowledged that the commuter rail was of primary benefit to the suburbs so they threw it in to balance out the light rail which was of primary benefit to Seattle city proper. (you could even argue that this deal favored the city but maybe Seattle paid a higher percentage, I don't know) But all this talk acting like the commuter rail will bring people into the city where they can transfer over to local transit like light rail. I sincerely doubt we get light rail in even the next 40 years unless its packaged with this transit system. So unless that happens, its utility is decreased and its benefit to OKC taxpayers is negligible if not downright wasteful.

Also, Seattle’s commuter rail schedule: https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/d...er-service.pdf
Doesn’t really seem like it has much service for Seattle citizens going to the suburbs. Looks like 90% of the schedule is designed to get commuters downtown during rush hour and then get them back home before the last train leaves at 6:30 pm. So not designed to increase sales tax as nobody can even stay in the city past 6:30.

You obviuosly didn't keep reading wiki. Our light rail is costing more than $6.7 BILLION dollars! There are/have been 3 phases ST1, ST2, and ST3.

ST1 and ST2 are largely just the city of Seattle and Airport, so I'll just focus on them.

* ST1 cost $3.9 billion, which only went from Seattle south to the Airport. This line avoids huge employment areas around Boeing field and includes a very costly tunnel only to become a cheap surface rail in the minority section of South Seattle before heading to the airport. ......

* ST2 cost $17.8 billion, expanded ST1 from Seattle 5 miles further north to the UW (Husky stadium). There were other items in the bundle but that's all we got for light rail.

So for a total of $21.7 billion we don't even fully cover the city of Seattle with light rail.

Commuter Rail (Sounder) cost way cheaper to implement and fully serves its purpose - COMMUTE. It was never meant for the citizens of Seattle to go to the suburbs when there's already extensive commuter and suburb bus.

I do agree that we should have done better with COMMUTER RAIL here, the schedules alone suck and the route misses most of the population (especially north) but again the demand is only there for crush rush hour - so Sounder is just a rush hour commuter rail (I suspect OKC's will run moreso like Chicago's METRA which runs back and forth all day than just crush rush hours).

Now, back to the finances and light rail - you laugh at the initial ST cost of $6.7 billion proposal from 1996; get this.

ST3 costs $53.8 billion which will finally finish light rail through the Seattle city limits (to Northgate u/c and then on North to 145th street) and continue further North to Everett and South from the Airport to Federal Way (NOT Tacoma, btw). Also new E-W line is also u/c from Seattle to Bellevue to Redmond/Microsoft (which is good for me, btw haha). But $53.8 B to sit on a light rail from Everett to Seattle or Federal Way to Seattle (both N-S, about 30 miles, who knows how many stops) will probably take at least 1.5 hours for the commute. Sounder Commuter Rail does Everett to Seattle in an hour and again, cost way less.

So for $70+ billion we have 3 light rail lines for Seattle, some minor expansion of Sounder commuter rail, shift of commuter bus from "local" to Sound Transit and a few expansions (especially North), and expansion of Tacoma's city light rail. I think ST also paid for I-405 express toll lanes.

Way more than the $3.9 billion you quoted.

[Plutonic Panda]

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...nsit-hub-plans

[HOT ROD]

nice way to get Hobby Lobby workers to use Transit.

[Teo9969]

Wow! That's great, unexpected news from a player you wouldn't necessarily think is thinking about that kind of thing.

[shawnw]

This is fantastic. I've long scoffed at the term "hub" for the current situation. But also, I'd love to have expanded service out of that hub and this will very much help. For example I want to serve Bethany out of that hub (Bethany has zero service currently).

[PaddyShack]

This is fantastic. I've long scoffed at the term "hub" for the current situation. But also, I'd love to have expanded service out of that hub and this will very much help. For example I want to serve Bethany out of that hub (Bethany has zero service currently).

I really would like for Yukon to start a shuttle service to get into the Embark system.

[Goon]

Why would a city want to make it easier for someone to live outside of it? What does a city benefit by doing that?

Annex all but a 1 or 2 mile circle around the CBD, and you'll quickly find your answer.

[shawnw]

I really would like for Yukon to start a shuttle service to get into the Embark system.

IMO, in principle, it would be VERY easy for Yukon itself to make this happen. They only need to go 3-4 miles (ideally if they got involved they'd go for more) from Mustang/Reno (they could build a park and ride here or really I suspect the existing lots could absorb a modest bus using group) to the Reno Mini Hub and then they're in. Once that hub is re-done probably more possibilities open up as well.

[Zorba]

Why would a city want to make it easier for someone to live outside of it? What does a city benefit by doing that? During the interstate boom cities raised or segregated tons of inner city neighborhoods and destroyed incredibly valuable real estate in the attempt to make it easier for people to live somewhere else. Needless to say, It didn’t work out well for cities.

Let OKC block everyone coming in from the 'burbs to work and spend money and see how that works out for them.

[Plutonic Panda]

Let OKC block everyone coming in from the 'burbs to work and spend money and see how that works out for them.

But wait the core subsidizes the rest of the city! /sarc

[GoGators]

Let OKC block everyone coming in from the 'burbs to work and spend money and see how that works out for them.

Straw man

[GoGators]

But wait the core subsidizes the rest of the city! /sarc

It does

[Plutonic Panda]

It does

Well, we’ve had this discussion before. You made good points but I still don’t fully agree.

[the michigander]

If bethany pays for service they can have service as far as Yukon and mustang they voted not to have future service. Dont blame embark or okc. it's those cities choice.

[PaddyShack]

IMO, in principle, it would be VERY easy for Yukon itself to make this happen. They only need to go 3-4 miles (ideally if they got involved they'd go for more) from Mustang/Reno (they could build a park and ride here or really I suspect the existing lots could absorb a modest bus using group) to the Reno Mini Hub and then they're in. Once that hub is re-done probably more possibilities open up as well.

So currently, if I drive myself over to the Reno hub, which is a little closer to me than the furthest stop along NW expressway, the total trip time from the Reno hub to my office takes about an hour, which doesn't account for waiting for a bus at either the Reno hub or the Downtown exchange. I would think having an express bus from Yukon to DT would cut out the local stops going from Reno hub to DT, but the DT to Britton and Broadway still takes a bit of time.

[PaddyShack]

I definitely am not blaming Embark or OKC for lack of service to Bethany or Yukon. I fully blame Yukon in not wanting to link up with the core, i.e. Edmond's CityLink service.

[Goon]

Let OKC block everyone coming in from the 'burbs to work and spend money and see how that works out for them.

A different way to say what I just said a few comments above yours, but yeah.

This idea that the city would be "just fine" without the thousands of taxpaying constituents who live outside its urban core is about as plausible as a bicycle wheel continuing to work upon removal of its spokes.

Like it or not, OKC is GIGANTIC in terms of total land mass. Either embrace the challenge or annex the areas you urban elites feel doesn't fit into your vision of #1OKC and let them leverage their own tax dollars to create infrastructure you insist can only be accessed by moving within walking distance of the Chesapeake arena.

Can't have it both ways.

[GoGators]

A different way to say what I just said a few comments above yours, but yeah.

This idea that the city would be "just fine" without the thousands of taxpaying constituents who live outside its urban core is about as plausible as a bicycle wheel continuing to work upon removal of its spokes.

Like it or not, OKC is GIGANTIC in terms of total land mass. Either embrace the challenge or annex the areas you urban elites feel doesn't fit into your vision of #1OKC and let them leverage their own tax dollars to create infrastructure you insist can only be accessed by moving within walking distance of the Chesapeake arena. Can't have it both ways.

There isnt any tax dollars out there to leverage. How much sales tax do you think is generated in the OKC city limits east of I-35? Enough to fix one pot hole a year?

[d-usa]

There isnt any tax dollars out there to leverage. How much sales tax do you think is generated in the OKC city limits east of I-35? Enough to fix one pot hole a year?

The OnCue on Sooner road probably fills a couple potholes with the money they make off contractors and military members buying coffee in their way to Tinker each morning.

[baralheia]

There isnt any tax dollars out there to leverage. How much sales tax do you think is generated in the OKC city limits east of I-35? Enough to fix one pot hole a year?

It depends on where exactly you mean. Just generally "east of I-35" includes a pretty large sales tax base in southeast OKC, including the area immediately around Tinker AFB. On the other hand, if you were to specify "East of I-35 and north of NE 23rd St" - basically the northeastern leg of the city limits that extends from Forest Park north-eastward out to near Luther - then your point would be quite valid. Nearly that entire area is very low density and the sales taxes generated almost certainly do not cover the City's necessary expenses out there.

[GoGators]

The OnCue on Sooner road probably fills a couple potholes with the money they make off contractors and military members buying coffee in their way to Tinker each morning.

That OnCue is in Del City.

[d-usa]

It’s two miles south of Del City and solidly in OKC.

Maybe you need to become more familiar with the actual city limits?

https://www.okc.gov/residents/do-i-l...-oklahoma-city