Streetcar

[jedicurt]

FYI, from what I'm hearing there is almost no chance the streetcar will be expanded through MAPS 4.

and if true... then i won't be voting for MAPS 4. unless there are some major trails, bikeways, etc in it.. but i have a feeling those won't be there either

[David]

I would be rather surprised if MAPS 4 doesn't have some element of trails, sidewalks, or bike infrastructure in the plan.

[Pete]

I often think about the huge amount of baby boomers who live in euclidian suburbs. What will happen to them when they can't drive anymore? Without public transit, many of them will age out alone, isolated, and unable to go anywhere. can't walk down the street to grab supplies or food, can't take public transit either.

Due to the great prosperity this country has seen since WWII, almost all Boomers and their families have the assets to move into the newest homes in the newest areas, farther and farther out.

And with their own parents, most go into senior or assisted living centers which provide mobility, to the extent they want it or can still do it.

So, they don't care about being able to drive when they are no longer completely independent.

There are plenty of people in that generation who don't have the means, but they also don't vote or frequently vote against their own interests.

I should know, I am at the tail end of the baby boom and I'm sad to say that my generation has done a great deal to mess up American cities.

[Pete]

I would be rather surprised if MAPS 4 doesn't have some element of trails, sidewalks, or bike infrastructure in the plan.

Nothing has been decided but I know in the initial discussions the amount of $50M has been proposed for bike lanes, sidewalks and trails.

That is out of what looks to be around $1B that would be collected under MAPS4.

$50M won't even make a dent in these areas.

[BoulderSooner]

I often think about the huge amount of baby boomers who live in euclidian suburbs. What will happen to them when they can't drive anymore? Without public transit, many of them will age out alone, isolated, and unable to go anywhere. can't walk down the street to grab supplies or food, can't take public transit either.

i don't know when does that actually happen ??

my grandmothers for instance both drove into there late 80's and 90's

[Ross MacLochness]

Great to hear and very lucky for them!

[jedicurt]

Nothing has been decided but I know in the initial discussions the amount of $50M has been proposed for bike lanes, sidewalks and trails.

That is out of what looks to be around $1B that would be collected under MAPS4.

$50M won't even make a dent in these areas.

no kidding... might as well not even have it on there if only $50M is what it is getting...

[jn1780]

It would be nice if Maps 4 funded streetcar style stops for buses. And this is going to sound silly, but what if we painted things on the roadway that indicates a bus route? Definitely not permanent by any means, but this gives something for people to develop around. We did have a bus follow streetcar tracks for over a week after Devon Tower incident after all.

[Anonymous.]

Tons of riders on the streetcars last night. A random Wednesday, but there was a concert in the gardens and the weather was incredible.

I will be very disappointed if the streetcar isn't expanded up to 23rd with MAPS.

[jn1780]

It would be nice if Maps 4 funded streetcar style stops for buses. And this is going to sound silly, but what if we painted things on the roadway that indicates a bus route? Definitely not permanent by any means, but this gives something for people to develop around. We did have a bus follow streetcar tracks for over a week after Devon Tower incident after all.

More on my painted line comment. China actually has an automated streetcar that actually relies on painted lines.
https://www.citylab.com/transportati...-a-bus/545189/

[jedicurt]

More on my painted line comment. China actually has an automated streetcar that actually relies on painted lines.
https://www.citylab.com/transportati...-a-bus/545189/

ok. that was a cool read. thanks for sharing

[TheTravellers]

More on my painted line comment. China actually has an automated streetcar that actually relies on painted lines.
https://www.citylab.com/transportati...-a-bus/545189/

Pretty cool system, but it'd never work here, OKC can't paint anything on streets that lasts a decent amount of time...

Read the link in the story about sorriest bus stops in America and we could actually be in that competition and win it handily with some of the really horrible stops we have here.

Not a real positive post, I know, but it's reality.

[Pete]

Instead of expanding the streetcar this go-around, I believe the plan is to put much more emphasis on bus service and shelters.

[GoGators]

It still caters to a mode share that the majority of commuters use so you have more of argument to support that than mass transit. Js

People will use the infrastructure that is provided to them.

[BoulderSooner]

People will use the infrastructure that is provided to them.

or what is the fastest and most convenient

[Rover]

People will use the infrastructure that is provided to them.

Or enables them to do what they want in the first place.

[Plutonic Panda]

People will use the infrastructure that is provided to them.

And?

[GoGators]

And?

And you keep making the argument that majority of commuters drive so the majority of of funds should be spent on roads. Of course the majority of commuters drive there is literally no other option .

[Rover]

And you keep making the argument that majority of commuters drive so the majority of of funds should be spent on roads. Of course the majority of commuters drive there is literally no other option .

And maybe the roads are there because a vast majority of the citizens actually WANT to drive and enjoy the benefits that it gives them.

[Plutonic Panda]

And you keep making the argument that majority of commuters drive so the majority of of funds should be spent on roads. Of course the majority of commuters drive there is literally no other option .

Right but not once did I ever say there should be no efforts to provide other options; the city just has to be smart about it. My point is that it makes sense not many would whine about an interchange costing 150 million or a road like Memorial or Rockwell being widened to the tune of millions whilst throwing a fit over 2-3 million going towards a bike lane or a bus route. Well, it may not make total sense but it is understandable. Especially when, as my point is, the super majority of people drive.

Not only do they drive but they live in an environment that is much cheaper to suit to cars VS. walkability. What I mean by that is the nature of suburban sprawl will always cause first last mile issues. I do think those that oppose transit are a bit shortsighted but again I understand where they are coming from.

Anything further discussion on this topic I suspect will quickly devolve into land use choices of which I’m sure by now you know my opinion on. I don’t know what else to say.

[Plutonic Panda]

And maybe the roads are there because a vast majority of the citizens actually WANT to drive and enjoy the benefits that it gives them.

Wait a minute, you’re telling me those residents only drive because there isn’t a protected bike lane or transit route with 2 transfers at minimum taking them to downtown!? /sarc

Let’s be real, the less dense a particular part of the city is the higher chance a residing person in that area is further away from any theoretical mass transit route that the city offers. That should be 101 knowledge. You can build transit all you want to the suburbs but unless it’s part of a broader system with many transfer stations and/or park & rides it will likely see very little ridership especially if it’s relative to the mode share of the cities it connects with. If it is the former than you are still likely to require driving no matter what though you reduced miles driven.

To add to what you said(maybe this is what you meant by benefits): this also affords them a lifestyle they couldn’t get in a dense area.

[GoGators]

And maybe the roads are there because a vast majority of the citizens actually WANT to drive and enjoy the benefits that it gives them.

Maybe. Hard to gauge what the vast majority prefers when the vast majority has literally no other option. necessity and preference are two different things

[PaddyShack]

If I could get a bus that takes me from Yukon to my office in less than 50 minutes, I would leave my vehicle at home.

[GoGators]

Right but not once did I ever say there should be no efforts to provide other options; the city just has to be smart about it. My point is that it makes sense not many would whine about an interchange costing 150 million or a road like Memorial or Rockwell being widened to the tune of millions whilst throwing a fit over 2-3 million going towards a bike lane or a bus route. Well, it may not make total sense but it is understandable. Especially when, as my point is, the super majority of people drive.

Not only do they drive but they live in an environment that is much cheaper to suit to cars VS. walkability. What I mean by that is the nature of suburban sprawl will always cause first last mile issues. I do think those that oppose transit are a bit shortsighted but again I understand where they are coming from.

Anything further discussion on this topic I suspect will quickly devolve into land use choices of which I’m sure by now you know my opinion on. I don’t know what else to say.

I completely agree with what you're saying. my point is that the people living in these car dependent environments shouldn't block alternative transport options in the dense areas just because they wouldn't use them.

[Plutonic Panda]

Let’s be real, the less dense a particular part of the city is the higher chance a residing person in that area is further away from any theoretical mass transit route that the city offers. That should be 101 knowledge. You can build transit all you want to the suburbs but unless it’s part of a broader system with many transfer stations and/or park & rides it will likely see very little ridership especially if it’s relative to the mode share of the cities it connects with. If it is the former than you are still likely to require driving no matter what though you reduced miles driven.

Adding to my statement about miles driven, that along with other failed initiatives like congestion pricing(see London and how articles try and spin it as a success even with the Stockholm solution now ultimately being needed to keep it bringing in revenue) or doing away with R-1 zoning are the next steps for the quiet pro-urbanism crowds in the smaller cities to take while they push their agenda. I’m seeing it firsthand in LA. How much longer until GoGators proposes removing LOS a development requirement and substitutes it for miles driven even though it will bear little to no relevancy to a vast majority citizens.

But hey as long as it’s good for me, right? I fail to see how that logic is different from the evil suburbanite crowd mad about “their” money going towards mass transit and bike lanes.