OKC Regional Transit System

[shawnw]

Details for tomorrow's event

http://www.acogok.org/all-aboard-may...tral-oklahoma/

[Teo9969]

Great reply. I did the same thing when I lived in a much more urban area. It was convenient to pick up items to cook for dinner on the walk or bike ride home, so that's what I did pretty often.

Only issue with this and like-minded responses is that the post that these responses are all in reference to comes from a person who clearly hasn't lived in a legitimate urban environment. This of course is not a knock against the reference poster at all, it's just that when trying to imagine how this all fits into Oklahoma City, a leap of creative thinking is required and to be honest, as someone who has lived in an urban environment, that creative thinking is hard for even me to do.

[Hutch]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kfor.co...h-transit/amp/

[Hutch]

https://twitter.com/davidfholt/statu...27537468481536

[Plutonic Panda]

RTA News: https://www.normantranscript.com/new...7de026da4.html

Does anyone think 4 stops in Norman is a bit much for commuter rail?

The current plan for the south corridor, which includes south OKC, Moore and Norman, would place four stops in Norman, with locations at Tecumseh Road, The Depot, Lindsey Street and Highway 9.

I think that'd be a max amount of stops for even light-rail...

[jedicurt]

RTA News: https://www.normantranscript.com/new...7de026da4.html

Does anyone think 4 stops in Norman is a bit much for commuter rail?



I think that'd be a max amount of stops for even light-rail...

i agree... i see tecumseh, depot, and lindsey street or highway 9... don't need both

[baralheia]

Personally, I think that's too many stops if they're all in regular service. The Lindsey St stop makes a ton of sense if it's a special event station, only used on gameday or other large events on campus, but otherwise normally bypassed. The southern terminus of the line at Highway 9 would be the perfect location for a Park-N-Ride station. The downtown depot stop makes perfect sense. The Tecumseh Rd stop may be useful in the future, with how rapidly the gap between Norman and Moore is closing, but I am not sold on the need for one there when commuter service starts. That said, there is a lot of open, available land there so that could be a good location for a Park-N-Ride.

[fightlessllama]

I absolutely think the station on OU’s campus is warranted. I mean look at any other commuter rail that passes through a tier 1 university and you better believe they all have a stop. And you actually have a young, often car-less population, in a dense and walkable environment. Most aren’t going to walk to OU from highway 9 or downtown Norman. And the station needs to be a regular stop. Not just for special events like games but there’s a lot of people who travel from Edmond/okc to OU and vice versa on a daily basis. Undergrad and graduate commuters, health science students and faculty, kids going home to visit family, students who have internships in the city, plus the couple thousand employees who work on campus. But there shouldn’t be a park and ride station smack in the middle of campus so then you have Tecumseh and highway 9 stations for that. And with how bad the traffic is going up I35, one more station is a drop in the bucket.

Also, this may be putting the cart before the horse but I honestly think the stop should be on Brooks St instead of Lindsey. Lindsey may be closer to the apartments east of the tracks and it looks like the city owns the land west of the tracks but Lindsey has a lot of fast moving traffic and it’s a bit farther from campus. Also, I actually walked that stretch of Lindsey from campus to that Braums once and there’s actually a hill there and the wind is terrible next to Brandt park. A Brooks stop is calmer, closer to campus/campus corner, has those apartments as a wind/monotony break, and directs you right to the heart of campus, the football stadium, and what I would bet is the future on-campus basketball stadium (if it ever happens, but it would be an amazing spot for people to take the train for all those weeknight games).

[shawnw]

If it helps, Brooks is already where the Sooner Express goes, so people are used to going there for commuter transit.

[LocoAko]

Personally, I think that's too many stops if they're all in regular service. The Lindsey St stop makes a ton of sense if it's a special event station, only used on gameday or other large events on campus, but otherwise normally bypassed. The southern terminus of the line at Highway 9 would be the perfect location for a Park-N-Ride station. The downtown depot stop makes perfect sense. The Tecumseh Rd stop may be useful in the future, with how rapidly the gap between Norman and Moore is closing, but I am not sold on the need for one there when commuter service starts. That said, there is a lot of open, available land there so that could be a good location for a Park-N-Ride.

I don't necessarily disagree, but for me who'd be going from OKC down to Highway 9, it makes it kind of hard to then get to South Campus without a car. Perhaps (hopefully) they'd make the Jenkins--Classen stretch of Highway 9 more walkable...

[jedicurt]

If it helps, Brooks is already where the Sooner Express goes, so people are used to going there for commuter transit.

this is what i kinda thought to... why lindsey, it should be here

[Plutonic Panda]

I think it could help if Norman invested into a streetcar connecting downtown to OU Campus. If they started planning now it could have an opening around the time this opens given the current schedule of this commuter rail.

[baralheia]

I absolutely think the station on OU’s campus is warranted. I mean look at any other commuter rail that passes through a tier 1 university and you better believe they all have a stop. And you actually have a young, often car-less population, in a dense and walkable environment. Most aren’t going to walk to OU from highway 9 or downtown Norman. And the station needs to be a regular stop. Not just for special events like games but there’s a lot of people who travel from Edmond/okc to OU and vice versa on a daily basis. Undergrad and graduate commuters, health science students and faculty, kids going home to visit family, students who have internships in the city, plus the couple thousand employees who work on campus. But there shouldn’t be a park and ride station smack in the middle of campus so then you have Tecumseh and highway 9 stations for that. And with how bad the traffic is going up I35, one more station is a drop in the bucket.

Also, this may be putting the cart before the horse but I honestly think the stop should be on Brooks St instead of Lindsey. Lindsey may be closer to the apartments east of the tracks and it looks like the city owns the land west of the tracks but Lindsey has a lot of fast moving traffic and it’s a bit farther from campus. Also, I actually walked that stretch of Lindsey from campus to that Braums once and there’s actually a hill there and the wind is terrible next to Brandt park. A Brooks stop is calmer, closer to campus/campus corner, has those apartments as a wind/monotony break, and directs you right to the heart of campus, the football stadium, and what I would bet is the future on-campus basketball stadium (if it ever happens, but it would be an amazing spot for people to take the train for all those weeknight games).

This is a really good point actually and one that I didn't fully consider. Having a stop at Lindsey St or Brooks St would enable students to commute to school from farther away by train, and could help slightly lessen the demand for parking on campus.

I don't necessarily disagree, but for me who'd be going from OKC down to Highway 9, it makes it kind of hard to then get to South Campus without a car. Perhaps (hopefully) they'd make the Jenkins--Classen stretch of Highway 9 more walkable...

My thinking with a Park-N-Ride at Highway 9 is that would be an easier location for passengers from south Norman and Noble to get to, especially as Norman grows south past Highway 9. That station would be a more car-oriented one in my eyes (though making sure pedestrians can get to and from any station is always a good thing, especially since there are restaurants and retail nearby). Parking at a stop at Lindsey / Brooks would most likely be limited, as would parking at the downtown stop, so your main stations that would allow a lot of people to park and ride would have to be either north or south of Norman.

[HOT ROD]

Purcell, Hw 9, Lindsey/OU, Main Street - those should be the "Norman" stops where:

*Purcell is a park-n-ride that is either in or just north of town [Terminal stop]
*Hwy 9 is a demand only South OU stop (in other words, no stop unless someone is there or is getting off).
*Lindsey/OU is a transit center with bus and shuttles fanning out. I'd love to see a streetcar from here going into and throughout OU as a master plan.
*Main Street - this is obvious and already exists.

As Panda mentioned, you dont want too many stops on Commuter Rail. Commuter Rail is warranted where you have mass of people moving long distance. Light rail would have more stops but the line wouldn't be as long.

[Swalell1960]

Okay, quick question asked with apologies if the answer has already been clarified: Are we talking about using existing tracks, say on the bnsf corridor for north/south movements? Or simply using ROW and installing new trackage parallel to existing tracks? Or both? Or something else altogether?

[baralheia]

Okay, quick question asked with apologies if the answer has already been clarified: Are we talking about using existing tracks, say on the bnsf corridor for north/south movements? Or simply using ROW and installing new trackage parallel to existing tracks? Or both? Or something else altogether?

Generally - but not always - commuter rail operates over the same trackage that already exists for freight use. In this case, we're talking about utilizing the existing freight trackage that BNSF already uses through town, which is also the assumption that transit planning up to this point has used. That said, it's extremely likely that RTACO will have to work with BNSF to double track the entire alignment through OKC before commuter service can begin; this will ensure there is sufficient rail capacity to enable both commuter and freight operations, as this rail line is already very busy with freight.

[benjico]

Off the topic of trains, but I'd love to see a trail exclusive for cycling and pedestrians created to connect these same cities. Similar to the NWA Razorback Greenway that connects Bentonville and Fayeteville. Accessible for small portions for quick rides/walks/runs/etc while also expansive for those looking to commute or exercise by bicycyle safely throughout the metro. I have no idea what route this would look like, but would love the newly formed regional group to consider it an option to connect the cities.

https://www.nwatrails.org/trail/razo...onal-greenway/

[HOT ROD]

^ and ideally along the commuter rail routes, so one could chose to ride the bike and/or rail.

another idea would be to develop trails along the interstate freeway network, something I thought was very cool thing about Wichita when I was a kid in the early 1980s (along I-135/35) and Denver when I lived there in the mid-1990s.

[fightlessllama]

^^ I couldn't agree more. I think it's integral that when they double track the rail right-of-way they also add a pedestrian and bike corridor. One of things impressing me the most about Tulsa is being able to bike and run along an uninterrupted stretch of more than 10 miles from the southern most suburbs without hitting a single stop light or crossing a single lane of traffic.

We need a straight path from Edmond and Norman into central OKC and here we have the chance for our own commuter/recreation version of Tulsa's riverside or Atlanta's Beltline while we are already in the process of negotiating with the railroads and building infrastructure. Too many times OKC planning is shortsighted or lacks a cohesive vision or the different departments are not in communication. Same thing with tearing up the street between scissortail park and the convention center yet not thinking to put in a protected bike lane.

Looking up and down the corridor on google maps, it appears there is plenty of room for even 3 rail lines and a trail if we so desired. And where there isn't enough room or a business/rail yard needs access to the tracks, the trail could diverge to paralleling the road or the highway. Plus there's even the opportunity to tie together automobile alley/deep deuce/CBD/bricktown with a Highline-esq trail of sorts. Plus, we know that the commuter rail loses its purpose real quick when it has too many stops slowing it down, so this trail connects to those neglected areas along the commuter corridor -- especially when paired with bike share docks and Lime/Bird scooters at the stations. Anyway, fan of both commuter rail and bike/running trails so I feel like they should be a package deal in any future plans.

Rough outline of the trail:



Able to connect to existing/near-term trails:



Crossing I-44 with a new pedestrian bridge might be the most expensive part but the trail could be rerouted across the existing Western Ave if the funds aren't immediately available. Great connection spot to the planned Deep Fork Greenway trail which I presume is being built sometime soon:


This hidden creek/greenway (blue) between 50th and 36th, to the west of I-235, feels like a natural diverging point from paralleling the rail line as it starts go go through industry. Bonus points if boob church future development integrates the trail into their plans. Then south of 36th it could follow the path of Edgemere park until it reconnects with the tracks at the future 23rd street commuter rail station:


I leave you with this inspiratory rendering of what the Atlanta Beltline will look like and what we could potentially have in our very own OKC (but with maybe something more than grass as a barrier between fast moving trains and pedestrians):

[benjico]

What a dream that would be!!!

[Mott]

Not trying to be negative, but 38 years as a trainman, here in OKC for the BNSF, and even with double tracking, a serious commuter operation is really a pipe dream. Most places there is no freight competition, and if so, there has been a long history of passenger and commuter trains, with staff and infrastructure. Main two has trains parked for hours, leaving only main 1 to meet north and south bound trains, using Britton and Burnett sidings. Fingers crossed!

[BoulderSooner]

Not trying to be negative, but 38 years as a trainman, here in OKC for the BNSF, and even with double tracking, a serious commuter operation is really a pipe dream. Most places there is no freight competition, and if so, there has been a long history of passenger and commuter trains, with staff and infrastructure. Main two has trains parked for hours, leaving only main 1 to meet north and south bound trains, using Britton and Burnett sidings. Fingers crossed!

way way more than a pipe dream

[catch22]

Not trying to be negative, but 38 years as a trainman, here in OKC for the BNSF, and even with double tracking, a serious commuter operation is really a pipe dream. Most places there is no freight competition, and if so, there has been a long history of passenger and commuter trains, with staff and infrastructure. Main two has trains parked for hours, leaving only main 1 to meet north and south bound trains, using Britton and Burnett sidings. Fingers crossed!

Sounds like they aren't using the track efficiently if they are using a mainline track as a siding. If other cities can do it, so can OKC. Maybe some new sidings would be necessary.

[Urban Pioneer]

Not trying to be negative, but 38 years as a trainman, here in OKC for the BNSF, and even with double tracking, a serious commuter operation is really a pipe dream. Most places there is no freight competition, and if so, there has been a long history of passenger and commuter trains, with staff and infrastructure. Main two has trains parked for hours, leaving only main 1 to meet north and south bound trains, using Britton and Burnett sidings. Fingers crossed!

Does BNSF use PTC (Positive Train Control) anywhere in Oklahoma yet? I think any double-tracking on the part of the RTA would have to include financing this as part of the federal mandate.

[Mott]

Does BNSF use PTC (Positive Train Control) anywhere in Oklahoma yet? I think any double-tracking on the part of the RTA would have to include financing this as part of the federal mandate.

They have installed it, it was having ‘issues’ when I retired, but they may have it up and running, as the FRA,with extensions, is mandating the Class 1 railroads to have it. The present infrastructure with single track bridges over Western, I-244, and 59th with the volume of freight makes any regular scheduled commuter trains between Edmond and Norman, an non starter. Maybe triple tracking would work, but that’s not financially possible. Trains are ‘staged’ on Main 2 as traffic fluctuates on the way to Ft. Worth, and that also depends on what level of service the freight customer has paid for.