Streetcar

[5alive]

Love that news!

[OKC Guy]

From https://twitter.com/davidfholt/statu...42308562096128

Good to see it increased.

Does anyone know:

1. Total length of route (5.2?)
2. Amount of total route trips made per day?
2A. Since the cars are on 2 routes how many run first route (and length) and how many run 2nd (and length)?

I think we have 5 cars running daily (of 7, with 2 kept in barn for routine maintenance). So how many total trips are made per day? And not all make a full trip so would need broken down into 2 and 2A miles.

What I’d like to do is figure out how many passengers per mile ran. If the daily miles total is 200 that would be 6,000 miles driven per month. Then take 33k passengers and get 5.5 passengers per mile average.

Not sure if anyone has it but wanted to ask.

Note: This doesn’t mean each passenger went a mile or 5 miles, its just away to convert for comparisons. Thats how most of mass transit systems are compared.

[midtownokcer]

From https://twitter.com/davidfholt/statu...42308562096128

Not unexpected news, but it was all doom and gloom on the news outlet FB pages after the February ridership numbers showed a 50% decrease from January. The comments were so ridiculous.

I was curious to see how KC's streetcar ridership does in the winter months. No surprise, January and February are its lowest months: http://kcstreetcar.org/ridership/

[Rover]

I think Salt Lake City averages about 40,000 per month on theirs. So ours is comparable, it seems.

[OKC Guy]

Here’s a link to a list of all light rail and streetcar riderships. They call it Daily boardings per mile, its the same thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...s_by_ridership

[dankrutka]

I think Salt Lake City averages about 40,000 per month on theirs. So ours is comparable, it seems.

That's interesting. Salt Lake City has a commuter rail that goes into downtown, but IMHO OKC's core is superior to SLC.

[HOT ROD]

no doubt downtown OKC is far superior to Salt Lake, but SLC has suburbs and exurbs in a linear line N-S, which sets up Commuter Rail a little better than the more circular in shape OKC metro area with our need for E-W and possibly NW and SW to downtown. ....

[shawnw]

well when you have a mountain range on one side and a lake on the other...

[Laramie]

The streetcar has the potential to serve more passengers in the midtown-downtown-bricktown areas once it gets established--it gives the appearance of being a tier above bus transit. Not to place any less emphasis on bus transit that provides an invaluable service for riders who depend on bus transportation.

Both transit modes will enhance Oklahoma City's future.

[jerrywall]

Out of curiosity, do the (I hate this word for this) competing modes of public transit have an effect on the potential for other modes. For example, folks keep talking about passenger rail between Edmond and OK. There's already a bus line that runs a dozen times a day, so personally I find it hard to push for rail service to be added on. Are people concerned that the success of one form of transit might limit the growth/success of another form?

[jedicurt]

Out of curiosity, do the (I hate this word for this) competing modes of public transit have an effect on the potential for other modes. For example, folks keep talking about passenger rail between Edmond and OK. There's already a bus line that runs a dozen times a day, so personally I find it hard to push for rail service to be added on. Are people concerned that the success of one form of transit might limit the growth/success of another form?

only if they leave it as is... if the adjust and let them grow into a system that all works together, i think it encourages growth among all the modes of transit.

[HOT ROD]

I think the transit modes in OKC will be competing as long as we keep using phrases like

1) 'the bus system is for the "working poor" '

and the just mentioned (sorry Larry)

2) 'the streetcar is seen as a tier above bus transit'

While these theories may be true in OKC, this is not the case in other areas with established transit systems. For example, in the Seattle area we now have Streetcar, local and Commuter bus, Commuter Rail, and light rail - you are not considered elite if you ride the commuter rail or poor if you ride the local bus; transit is ridden based on the mode available to where you are going/coming from. So a person may take commuter bus the entire way (like my wife does) or someone else may need to take multiple modes - Modes feed each other not compete,

and they will compete as long as OKC continues to have them as separate rather than the streetcar being another mode of OKC's transit network.

[Ed Shadid]

Embark has to date issued 620 annual passes and 18,600 day passes for the streetcar to businesses along the streetcar route. Given that annual passes for the streetcar sell for $384 and day passes for $3, the dollar value of the passes to these businesses alone is $238,080 + $55,800 = $293,880. Coupled with the roughly $400,000/year approved by COPTA last month to pay off-duty police officers for "security" on the streetcar, the City has allocated roughly an additional $700,000 to the roughly $3 million operating costs for the streetcar.

OKC has the largest discrepancy in level of service between its bus system and its streetcar system (frequency, hours of operation, fares, quality of shelters, security etc..) in the entire country. Both of the expenditures pour additional fuel on a raging fire of inequity.

[Laramie]

I think the transit modes in OKC will be competing as long as we keep using phrases like

1) 'the bus system is for the "working poor" '

and the just mentioned (sorry Larry)

2) 'the streetcar is seen as a tier above bus transit'

While these theories may be true in OKC, this is not the case in other areas with established transit systems. For example, in the Seattle area we now have Streetcar, local and Commuter bus, Commuter Rail, and light rail - you are not considered elite if you ride the commuter rail or poor if you ride the local bus; transit is ridden based on the mode available to where you are going/coming from. So a person may take commuter bus the entire way (like my wife does) or someone else may need to take multiple modes - Modes feed each other not compete,

and they will compete as long as OKC continues to have them as separate rather than the streetcar being another mode of OKC's transit network.

No need to be 'sorry' I know exactly what you meant. Same reason you brought up Seattle's contrast in transit to that of OKC's. It's all good my bro, I'll proudly wear those ruby slippers because the city in which I live & love is not a 'Utopia' by any means.

Just telling you what the 'feel' is around here IMO; not that there's any intention to degrade any mode of transportation any more than the natural thing when we purchase new buses vs. old buses or with our own vehicles or our neighbors old run down jalopies--we naturally compare.

What will the new Sana Fe Intermodal Transit hub include (?):

Greyhound Bus Station: 1948 E Reno Ave
Oklahoma City 'city bus' transit center: 420 NW 5th Street
Streetcar transit

Since the 'City Bus' transit center is so close to Santa Fe Intermodal Transit Hub--will it be closed. Oh, and there's the Greyhound Buses; will they bring it back to the city. HotRod, Seattle's Greyhound & Jefferson lines--you guys have two.

Anyone in-the-know please feel free to discuss the SFITH.

[okatty]

I understand there was a pretty serious bicycle accident this week in which a rider got his bike tire in the streetcar rail and had a very bad fall. Broken leg, dislocated hip, etc. Admitted to Bone & Joint. Very unfortunate deal.

[Zorba]

I understand there was a pretty serious bicycle accident this week in which a rider got his bike tire in the streetcar rail and had a very bad fall. Broken leg, dislocated hip, etc. Admitted to Bone & Joint. Very unfortunate deal.

I work with some people that are very big bikers and even lobby at the city and state level for biking improvements. They were pretty vocal to me about not liking the streetcars when they started construction, because of this very thing. Normally they are big supporters of public transit and helped get official carpools started at work. I haven't asked them what their thoughts are now that it is opened, but I am sure they are still concerned about the tracks, especially since they are in the RH lane that bikes tend to ride in.

I wonder how this is avoided as an issue in Seattle that has tons of bike commuters.

[HOT ROD]

I work with some people that are very big bikers and even lobby at the city and state level for biking improvements. They were pretty vocal to me about not liking the streetcars when they started construction, because of this very thing. Normally they are big supporters of public transit and helped get official carpools started at work. I haven't asked them what their thoughts are now that it is opened, but I am sure they are still concerned about the tracks, especially since they are in the RH lane that bikes tend to ride in.

I wonder how this is avoided as an issue in Seattle that has tons of bike commuters.

we have dedicated bike lanes with their own traffic signals, completely separated from traffic in certain streets of the CBD. Perhaps people are a little more used to it here.

[Zorba]

we have dedicated bike lanes with their own traffic signals, completely separated from traffic in certain streets of the CBD. Perhaps people are a little more used to it here.

Do the bike lanes never cross the streetcar tracks? Or do they had gap fillers where the bike paths cross?

[HOT ROD]

they never cross. there's specific streets for streetcars and others for bike lanes.

downtown OKC is a little different (more compact) than Seattle but we have 2nd Avenue with "grade" separated bike lanes the full length (NW-SE) of the CBD. The pic I shared is showing 2nd Ave bike lanes (note the grade separation median from auto traffic). I believe there is also a bike lane that runs alone Pine Street for the SW-NE direction. Bikes can share on other streets throughout the cbd but there's not dedicated that I can remember. Think of the bike lanes as sort of bike freeways or bike rapid transit.

Streetcar runs along Westlake Ave (the famous S.L.U.T) starting at 5th Avenue running out to the north and the new streetcar route (im not sure if it has a name) runs along Jackson Street (both are on the opposite sides of the CBD). We don't have any streetcars run through the CBD.

I don't know if OKC could follow the lead of Seattle given the config of you guy's CBD and how the Streetcar route is laid out , Portland (oh goodness - hard to say that city's name right now) might be a better example as they're more compact but Im not too familiar with their biking situation. Nevertheless I would strongly argue that OKC should make dedicated grade separated bike lanes in SOME sort of pattern and maybe restrict biking along the streetcar route tracks altogether. ...

................

For those interested on with how transit is configured in Seattle - we reserve 3rd Avenue as the main transit street for King County Metro (which is closed to auto traffic during most of the day) and Sound Transit commuter bus runs more disbursed along 2nd Ave, 4th and 5th Ave. We used to have the Seattle bus tunnel instead of 3rd but now that is exclusively for light rail. There are some Trolley buses that go along 1st Ave and 3rd Ave. The original Monorail runs from Westlake in the CBD outward down 5th Ave N to the Space Needle. Commuter Rail comes into King Street train station which is near Jackson.

Seattle has 4 underground stations, with Westlake being the main one. Seattle runs longitudinally along 1st - 5th Aves basically, 2nd, 4th, and 5th are one way and again 3rd is sort of a transit 'mall'.

[Urban Pioneer]

We took bike separation pretty seriously in the design. A great example of this is on 4th street where the bike lane also goes around the Federal Center streetcar stop. The crossings are encouraged 90-degree angles and EMBARK pursued a fairly strenuous public education campaign specifically about bikes. The bicycle accident is terrible news though.

[Urban Pioneer]

Regarding the inequity between the buses and streetcars, I couldn't agree with Councilman Shadid more. Our former City Manager had a great deal to do with major bus improvements not being included in MAPS 3.

I think this time you will see a significant MAPS investment in the bus system. The streetcar system really should be used as the baseline for how we should go forward with the transit system overall. And I say baseline because I think we can do better than the BRASCO shelters we are using, better urban design at stops, and then bus technology itself.

Just simply installing shelters at all existing stops is only approximately a $15 million investment. It shouldn't even be questioned.

[Zorba]

snip.

Thank you for the info. I spent a lot of time walking Seattle's downtown a few years ago over four weeks, but I haven't biked it or seen the streetcars. I personally always hold Seattle as the ideal when it comes to walking, though. And I know it is a mecca of Bike commuting.

[Anonymous.]

When are the yellow nets coming down? This seems to be very bootleg having them up this long.

[shawnw]

I heard the components were in fabrication and we still have another month or two until delivery and installation.

[aDark]

When are the yellow nets coming down? This seems to be very bootleg having them up this long.

I'm lost. What is this talking about?