Streetcar

[CloudDeckMedia]

I believe that safety protocol requires the operator to keep all passengers on board until emergency personnel verify that the area is clear. I participated in the March 29 SIMULATED truck v. streetcar collision + HAZMAT spill, and that was the protocol. After the truck T-boned the streetcar, the operator kept all doors closed and 911 was called. OCFD was first on the scene, and they identified that an unknown chemical had spilled from the truck. A perimeter was established and protected personnel & sensors were brought in. Injured victims - including the truck driver - were assessed and evacuated through a sterile corridor uphill/upwind to triage as the chemical spill was contained & neutralized.

If you simply open the doors, you may put passengers into greater danger.

[TheTravellers]

I believe that safety protocol requires the operator to keep all passengers on board until emergency personnel verify that the area is clear. I participated in the March 29 SIMULATED truck v. streetcar collision + HAZMAT spill, and that was the protocol. After the truck T-boned the streetcar, the operator kept all doors closed and 911 was called. OCFD was first on the scene, identified that an unknown chemical had spilled from the truck, established a perimeter and brought in protected personnel with sensors. Injured victims - including the truck drive - were assessed and evacuated uphill/upwind to triage.

If you simply open the doors, you may put passengers into greater danger.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.p...89#post1066789

[Urban Pioneer]

Yeah I saw that incident CCOKC mentioned. Fortunately it got resolved fairly quickly.

Regarding OKCGuy and others constantly harping about “what if”’s regarding streetcar monies in 2009 being diverted to buses... former City Council Manager Jim Couch was against it. I fought as hard for bus shelters and more buses as I did the streetcar. He didn’t want it and no one on council fought him on it.

This time will be different. Jim Couch is gone. You can be assured a significant bus investment bolstering existing routes with higher frequency, BRT monies, and potentially select streetcar expansion as part of Complete Streets initiatives.

And as with every transit discussion, the problem is the city’s budget obsorbing the ongoing O&M that such a initiative will generate in the city’s annual operating budget.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ Any chance you have heard of any numbers in terms of dollar amounts floated for MAPS 4? I would like to see about 500 million from MAPS 4 go to mass transit in OKC.

[Quicker]

Shadid raised the thought that every MAPS initiative doesn't necessarily have to be for a full 1 cent and the transit proponents have said that they need a 1/2 cent to make the RTA work...so it’s going to be really interesting to see how that shakes out...

Will the vast majority of suburbanites in a city that has been very effectively built around cars who’ll never use mass transit support that? It’s going to be very interesting to see...

[Quicker]

I really miss Kerry (Just the facts)... He was very hard headed and loved confrontation in defending his ideas but one that really struck home with me was, our city is so spread out that it’s unrealistic to try and provide an excellent mass transit system to the the entire city... We should concentrate on having an excellent system in a more limited area such as inside the loop and maybe a little further west and over time, those that value mass transit the most would move to be within those boundary’s.

[BoulderSooner]

Shadid raised the thought that every MAPS initiative doesn't necessarily have to be for a full 1 cent and the transit proponents have said that they need a 1/2 cent to make the RTA work...so it’s going to be really interesting to see how that shakes out...

Will the vast majority of suburbanites in a city that has been very effectively built around cars who’ll never use mass transit support that? It’s going to be very interesting to see...

what is good about Shadid and pete's point about OKC's low sales tax is that we likely have room for Maps 1 cent to continue AND a Dedicated transit Tax

[Urban Pioneer]

I really miss Kerry (Just the facts)... He was very hard headed and loved confrontation in defending his ideas but one that really struck home with me was, our city is so spread out that it’s unrealistic to try and provide an excellent mass transit system to the the entire city....

Yesterday it was interesting to hear JoBeth Hamon press back on more sprawl. She articulated some of the longterm consequences of further city development expansion on the fringe.

[Urban Pioneer]

^^^ Any chance you have heard of any numbers in terms of dollar amounts floated for MAPS 4? I would like to see about 500 million from MAPS 4 go to mass transit in OKC.

I have heard between $80 million and $200 million as the window that they think MAPS 4 could budget for transit initiatives. This would essentially be an infrastructure bridge of meaningful public transit improvements to an eventual RTA vote. By my own calculations, a minimum of $185 million is required to do some of the things outlined in the previous posts.

This basically assumes that large chunks of MAPS are dedicated to the Mental Health/Family services Facility, the MAPS maintenance endowment, and other things.

My calculations are based on corridors, meaningful bus, BRT, streetcar improvements and what I think the annual Operating Budget of the City can absorb.

Where the MAPS transit investment could be expanded in meaningful ways is Complete Streets initiatives as part of corridor rehabilitation. Transit, bike lanes, sidewalks, transit platforms, median beautification, crosswalks, intelligent traffic signaling technology, and other amenities all rolled into one.

Yesterday there was an interesting dialogue about the speed of the streetcar and council members asking that it be sped up. I think that as part of median improvements, we need to incorporate dedicated ROW for any streetcar expansion, BRT, and intelligent traffic signaling for high-frequency bus corridors. Once you are outside of downtown, speed balanced with safety through good design and technology should be a priority. We should look at all of these things holistically.

[Laramie]

I have heard between $80 million and $200 million as the window that they think MAPS 4 could budget for transit initiatives. This would essentially be an infrastructure bridge of meaningful public transit improvements to an eventual RTA vote. By my own calculations, a minimum of $185 million is required to do some of the things outlined in the previous posts.

This basically assumes that large chunks of MAPS are dedicated to the Mental Health/Family services Facility, the MAPS maintenance endowment, and other things.

My calculations are based on corridors, meaningful bus, BRT, streetcar improvements and what I think the annual Operating Budget of the City can absorb.

Where the MAPS transit investment could be expanded in meaningful ways is Complete Streets initiatives as part of corridor rehabilitation. Transit, bike lanes, sidewalks, transit platforms, median beautification, crosswalks, intelligent traffic signaling technology, and other amenities all rolled into one.

Yesterday there was an interesting dialogue about the speed of the streetcar and council members asking that it be sped up. I think that as part of median improvements, we need to incorporate dedicated ROW for any streetcar expansion, BRT, and intelligent traffic signaling for high-frequency bus corridors. Once you are outside of downtown, speed balanced with safety through good design and technology should be a priority. We should look at all of these things holistically.

Let's not forget the Better Streets & Safer City GO-Bonds passed in 2017, doesn't it address some of this.

[hoya]

Shadid raised the thought that every MAPS initiative doesn't necessarily have to be for a full 1 cent and the transit proponents have said that they need a 1/2 cent to make the RTA work...so it’s going to be really interesting to see how that shakes out...

Will the vast majority of suburbanites in a city that has been very effectively built around cars who’ll never use mass transit support that? It’s going to be very interesting to see...

We need a mass transit plan because otherwise things are going to really suck in 20 years.

The city is growing, and a lot of that growth is in the suburbs. But there's a hard limit on how much we can expand I-35. We can't really add extra lanes in many places because there's just no room. Traffic is already a lot worse than it was 10 years ago, and this problem isn't going to go away.

A mass transit system would help promote more dense developments. Today, you'd have to get in your car and drive to the train station, which doesn't make a lot of sense when you could just drive to your destination instead. But 20 years from now, traffic will be much worse and it might actually be faster to take the train. Theoretically at each train stop, you'd get a dense cluster of housing and shops that people would build. For maybe a quarter mile each direction (about a 5 minute walk) you'd get apartment buildings, townhomes, and neighborhoods built around a short walk to the train station. The people who lived nearby would regularly use the train instead of getting in their cars. Of course, there's no train system today, so that kind of housing isn't built yet.

But as traffic gets worse, people would start looking for an option where they could avoid it.

[Plutonic Panda]

We need a mass transit plan because otherwise things are going to really suck in 20 years.

Things are going to suck in 20 years if we neglect our car based infrastructure for mass transit based.

Here’s a thought; build and keep up both.

If OKC shifts heavily toward mass transit and stops sprawl, watch how expensive it becomes and how bad traffic gets. It will be rather ironic and then the problem will be that the city still isn’t doing enough of what made it expensive and congested to begin with. It sure won’t be the first city that happened in. See virtually every west coast city.

[CloudDeckMedia]

Future transit planning & investment in the central city will include bicycles. That's not wishful thinking - look at demographics in CBD & Midtown, Ward 2 representation, and a new City Manager.

[HOT ROD]

you mean ward 6 rep, who only rides bicycle.

[Anonymous.]

[At least one of] the streetcars is decked out in an OKC Playoff wrap. It looks amazing. We should do this to all the streetcars with sponsors and get away from the fares.

[shawnw]

https://twitter.com/DowntownOKC/stat...78522894831621

[Pryor Tiger]

A mass transit system would help promote more dense developments. Today, you'd have to get in your car and drive to the train station, which doesn't make a lot of sense when you could just drive to your destination instead. But 20 years from now, traffic will be much worse and it might actually be faster to take the train. Theoretically at each train stop, you'd get a dense cluster of housing and shops that people would build. For maybe a quarter mile each direction (about a 5 minute walk) you'd get apartment buildings, townhomes, and neighborhoods built around a short walk to the train station. The people who lived nearby would regularly use the train instead of getting in their cars. Of course, there's no train system today, so that kind of housing isn't built yet.

But as traffic gets worse, people would start looking for an option where they could avoid it.

Hoya - You are exactly right. In Minneapolis/St. Paul - every time there is a stop on the Green/Blue Line trains you see apartments/lofts for days, services, restaurants, bars. Honestly - I see the Crossroads Mall area turning into a hot spot for development once the line is complete from Norman to Downtown OKC.

[hoya]

Hoya - You are exactly right. In Minneapolis/St. Paul - every time there is a stop on the Green/Blue Line trains you see apartments/lofts for days, services, restaurants, bars. Honestly - I see the Crossroads Mall area turning into a hot spot for development once the line is complete from Norman to Downtown OKC.

One of the proposed stops is at SE 4th in Moore. There's a lot of empty land in that area, and it's right next to their new aquatic center, and not too far from the Warren Theater and all the restaurants on 19th. It seems primed for massive investment. If I had the money to speculate on land, that's where I'd be looking.

The great part of it is, if you don't like the idea of mass transit, you don't have to use it. Every person riding the train is another person who is not clogging up the road. It's not going to Make Driving Great Again, because people will only start taking the train once traffic hits a certain point, but it may keep it from getting worse.

[Urban Pioneer]

Let's not forget the Better Streets & Safer City GO-Bonds passed in 2017, doesn't it address some of this.

I don't know how far that initiative goes to create "complete streets". The improvements on Western are great south of 23rd. Beyond resurfacing projects, I have not seen many details on other initiatives.

[jompster]

I really miss Kerry (Just the facts)... He was very hard headed and loved confrontation in defending his ideas but one that really struck home with me was, our city is so spread out that it’s unrealistic to try and provide an excellent mass transit system to the the entire city... We should concentrate on having an excellent system in a more limited area such as inside the loop and maybe a little further west and over time, those that value mass transit the most would move to be within those boundary’s.

This is almost exactly what my partner and I were discussing when we vacationed in Malta. Their total land area is about half what OKC's is, and their population is also about half - and I'm sure tourism plays a large factor in it - but their bus system was phenomenal. During the week each line ran every 20 minutes. You could get almost anywhere in the populated areas in about 20 or 30 minutes tops. You could traverse the entire Big Island in about an hour. There are several differences to consider, but I thought it to be a good example of transportation done right.

There really are days when I dislike driving - not because there is a LOT of traffic, but because of the way people drive. If we had a good and more thorough bus service, I'd be inclined to use it daily to go to work. A

[Zorba]

I believe that safety protocol requires the operator to keep all passengers on board until emergency personnel verify that the area is clear. I participated in the March 29 SIMULATED truck v. streetcar collision + HAZMAT spill, and that was the protocol. After the truck T-boned the streetcar, the operator kept all doors closed and 911 was called. OCFD was first on the scene, and they identified that an unknown chemical had spilled from the truck. A perimeter was established and protected personnel & sensors were brought in. Injured victims - including the truck driver - were assessed and evacuated through a sterile corridor uphill/upwind to triage as the chemical spill was contained & neutralized.

If you simply open the doors, you may put passengers into greater danger.

Oh noes, someone might smell anti-freeze. Seriously, this is taking safety theater too far. If the SC can't move for more than a few minutes, it should let people off. All those people are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves when to get out of any other form of transportation. It is one big step down, in the same spot an Uber would drop you off in. It is a little more justified in a real accident, but in a "car is on the rails" event it is beyond ridiculous.

[Zorba]

At the end of the day, federal and state gas taxes need to increase and get pegged to CPI. A reasonable chunk of this needs to then get earmarked for public transit. The real way public transit pays for itself is by removing cars from roads and thus decreasing the maintenance and capital costs for roads. Higher gas prices also makes people more likely to choose public transit or biking.

Really, gas tax needs to be changed to a formula based on miles driven and weight of vehicle. Inflation and fuel efficiency has both massively undermined the gas tax's ability to fund infrastructure.

I'm also all for progressive fares on public transit. If you are riding the subway to your 150K/yr job you can afford a $5 fare, but the person going to the same building to clean the toilets should get a break on that, maybe a $1. Allowing poorer people to find and keep jobs is good for everyone in the city. Allowing poorer people to give up the expense of a car would also be a big quality of life improvement.

I just spent a week in Busan, Korea and their public transit was amazing, made me very jealous. Of course they have much higher density than OKC.

[BoulderSooner]

At the end of the day, federal and state gas taxes need to increase and get pegged to CPI. A reasonable chunk of this needs to then get earmarked for public transit. The real way public transit pays for itself is by removing cars from roads and thus decreasing the maintenance and capital costs for roads. Higher gas prices also makes people more likely to choose public transit or biking.

Really, gas tax needs to be changed to a formula based on miles driven and weight of vehicle. Inflation and fuel efficiency has both massively undermined the gas tax's ability to fund infrastructure.

I'm also all for progressive fares on public transit. If you are riding the subway to your 150K/yr job you can afford a $5 fare, but the person going to the same building to clean the toilets should get a break on that, maybe a $1. Allowing poorer people to find and keep jobs is good for everyone in the city. Allowing poorer people to give up the expense of a car would also be a big quality of life improvement.

I just spent a week in Busan, Korea and their public transit was amazing, made me very jealous. Of course they have much higher density than OKC.

cars cause litte to no damage to roads ....

almost all road damage and ware is caused by big trucks and environmental factors ..

[Zorba]

cars cause litte to no damage to roads ....

almost all road damage and ware is caused by big trucks and environmental factors ..

And they weigh more than cars, no? If you make the tax based on the weight of the vehicle you take that into account.

The flip side, the majority of road construction is done to accommodate cars. And once they are built entropy starts doing its damage. Many roads are replaced to accommodate more cars long before they need major maintenance.

[David]

From https://twitter.com/davidfholt/statu...42308562096128

As expected, @OKCStreetcar ridership spiked dramatically in March as temps rose & riders got used to the fare system. From Feb to March, ridership jumped 62%. Over 33,000 riders used the Streetcar in March. April is already looking even better. Keep enjoying the Streetcar, OKC!