Poll on a new WalMart for downtown area

[metro]

I noticed this sad but true poll on OKCBusiness - Oklahoma City Business News today. I was also disappointed that it didn't have an option for nowhere or none.

Where would you support a new Wal-Mart?


Downtown
Deep Deuce
The Triangle
Flat Iron District
Central City


Results
*From 6/13/2007 to 6/29/2007.

Downtown 23%

Deep Deuce 9%

The Triangle 18%

Flat Iron District 23%

Central City 27%

[CuatrodeMayo]

(I'm gonna take a beating for this)

I would support an urban walmart in OKC. I think it would help more than it would hurt.

[jbrown84]

I tend to lean that way, but I would prefer Target or HEB or something like that over Wal-Mart.

[BDP]

I guess that depends on what you want out of redeveloping downtown. If you think downtown should just be more of the same as the rest of the city, then it would help more than hurt. If you are looking for a revitalized downtown to draw new businesses and expansion of choices in Oklahoma City, then it would probably hurt, as it would all but guarantee that it is all we would get.

Personally, I want Oklahoma to move up, diversify, and become an attractive place for all kinds of people and, therefore, shoppers. I'd hoped that is what reenergizing downtown would help us accomplish. If it's just Wal-Marts, and 7-11s, and fast food, then I don't really see the whole point of the exercise and I certainly don't see any justification for the public assistance to date or planned if that's what it's going to be.

Granted, Wal-Mart may be more malleable in a downtown setting. If they respected the setting, then it could be cool. It's not impossible for Wal-Mart to operate a store more geared towards an urban environment, but it's not probable. Wal-Mart is where it is today by successfully forcing its business model on communities, suppliers, and shoppers. I would be surprised for them to abandon that for OKC, but, then again, maybe we would be some sort of test for a new urban concept. OKC is one of their favorite and most dominated markets, after all. I just hope that OKC doesn’t still think it has to just take whatever it can get, instead of holding out for what it wants.

(I hope you don’t take any of that as an attempted beating. )

[okclee]

Here is the downtown Minneapolis Target.

I know that the Target HQ is located in downtown Minnieapolis too, but it is a good blend of downtown retail.

[metro]

That's what I'm talking about. A downtown Target.

[jbrown84]

Yeah what I meant was an urban-style store like seen above.

[PUGalicious]

(I'm gonna take a beating for this)

I would support an urban walmart in OKC. I think it would help more than it would hurt.

Take that... and that... and that...

[PUGalicious]

Here is the downtown Minneapolis Target.

I know that the Target HQ is located in downtown Minnieapolis too, but it is a good blend of downtown retail.

Now I like that! Wal-Mart, notsomuch.

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

Forget the super target and super wal-fart downtown. There needs to be an urban grocery store downtown (a stand-alone grocery store with trendy urban appeal, like Whole Foods, which thankfully I heard is a possibility...). If they don't get one down there soon, I have a feeling the future of residential development downtown will be in peril. Who would want to pay extra money to live downtown when you have to drive outside of the city to go food shopping (and no, I don't think putting a mega retail down there will make it appealing at all, it will destroy the character that I think downtown is trying to embrace). The type of people who want to live downtown are going to want something better.

I have to agree with you metro, I would vote NOWHERE! Enough Wal-farts! Especially at or nearby downtown!

[SuperScooper]

I think we need a couple of small to medium sized grocery and variety stores to encourage the big players to come downtown.

I am suprised Braums does not have a Bricktown store. I would think they would do really well because of all the apartment dwellers down there. Braums is great for cookout stuff and the basic staples.

They could lay it out in a old main street theme. The ice cream and fast food counter could be canal side and the grocery area could be street side.

I am suprised the city has not approached Walgreens about a store/soda fountain on in an existing structure on Broadway or Sheridan. It would be perfect for travelers and downtown workers. We have all been on the road where we forgot or ran out of something. No to mention Walgreens is great for all the last minute stuff.

[HOT ROD]

I think there are some very creative things that can be done, as mentioned above.

Does anyone plan to contact OKCbusiness to discuss their "WalFart poll"? I think we need some voices to let them know that we are TIRED of being used by WalMart and want QUALITY and URBAN design in OKC - and that we wont stand for them being located in downtown.

The closest WalMart/Target/Best Buy/Home Depot/BigBox whoever should be allowed to downtown should be on the Eastside or SW 44 or something, where revitalization is required - and even then it should be URBAN and beautifully landscaped!!

What a sore-eye that would be, to have a WalMart, urban or not, as the main retail attraction for OKC during the 2010 US Conference of Mayors.

We'd be the laughing stock of the world, NBA team or not!!!!

[okclee]

does anyone consider the Homeland at 17th and Classen to be part of downtown??

It has been there for many, many years, I wonder how well it does in sales for a downtown grocer.

[metro]

I do not consider that Homeland to be a part of downtown. It is trashy and dirty. It is also more of the Midtown area than anything. As you mentioned it is on 17th. The technical official boundaries of downtown extend to 13th so either way you look at it, it is really not downtown. Not to mention after about 6th street it really is more Midtown feeling even though technically it is "downtown boundaries". Sadly, many developers including some city planners DO consider it downtown therefore they aren't as persistent with getting a TRUE DOWNTOWN GROCER. I was somewhat encouraged to hear Allison Oshel with the Chamber of Commerce a few weeks ago at the Urban Neighbors meeting and she spoke on what she is doing to try and lure a downtown grocer. Although it seems she's done alot of her homework and has done a good job, I think we could be a little more aggressive on getting one.

[Turanacus]

Walmart = Ghetto

[Turanacus]

does anyone consider the Homeland at 17th and Classen to be part of downtown??

It has been there for many, many years, I wonder how well it does in sales for a downtown grocer.

That Homeland needs to be leveled. There is a very good reason why there is always an armed guard standing in front of that joint.

[BDP]

I'm not trying to defend that Homeland, but I go there all the time at all hours and I never have a problem or have seen any trouble. I agree it sucks, but it's convenient for me, so I end up going more than i'd like to. However, I don't think it's unsafe.... of course, that could be the security. Then again, I have had heard of a lot more trouble with people I know that shop on Memorial and at the Homeland on May above 122nd. But maybe that's becuase the perception doesn't meat the reality and they don't have the security they really need...

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

I do not consider that Homeland to be a part of downtown. It is trashy and dirty. It is also more of the Midtown area than anything. As you mentioned it is on 17th. The technical official boundaries of downtown extend to 13th so either way you look at it, it is really not downtown. Not to mention after about 6th street it really is more Midtown feeling even though technically it is "downtown boundaries". Sadly, many developers including some city planners DO consider it downtown therefore they aren't as persistent with getting a TRUE DOWNTOWN GROCER. I was somewhat encouraged to hear Allison Oshel with the Chamber of Commerce a few weeks ago at the Urban Neighbors meeting and she spoke on what she is doing to try and lure a downtown grocer. Although it seems she's done alot of her homework and has done a good job, I think we could be a little more aggressive on getting one.

I agree with everything you just said, metro. I want to add though that I'm wondering why it is grocers are "afraid" of downtown? It just seems like we're caught in a chicken/egg scenario here where grocers don't want to come unless there are residents, and there won't be permanent residents down there until downtown is self sufficient with upscale urban qualities. Perhaps if we can lure something that isn't anywhere else in the city, it may attract those nearby from Edmond, Nichols Hills, even Norman, etc (like a Whole Foods!) which could help the grocer get a start, and hold until the residential area blossoms.

[Doug Loudenback]

I do not consider that Homeland to be a part of downtown. It is trashy and dirty. It is also more of the Midtown area than anything. As you mentioned it is on 17th. The technical official boundaries of downtown extend to 13th so either way you look at it, it is really not downtown. Not to mention after about 6th street it really is more Midtown feeling even though technically it is "downtown boundaries". Sadly, many developers including some city planners DO consider it downtown therefore they aren't as persistent with getting a TRUE DOWNTOWN GROCER. I was somewhat encouraged to hear Allison Oshel with the Chamber of Commerce a few weeks ago at the Urban Neighbors meeting and she spoke on what she is doing to try and lure a downtown grocer. Although it seems she's done alot of her homework and has done a good job, I think we could be a little more aggressive on getting one.

Have to disagree with you, Metro, on a couple of points you mentioned.

#1 - The HL store is at 18th & Classen, not 17th

#2 - During the past couple of years or so, that store has had significant improvements in its offerings and available content. They also work with "shoppers" to stock desired items that are not already present. I shop there often. But, your remarks about its ambience are absolutely wrong, today. It is absolutely NOT "trashy and/or dirty, imo. As to what you can buy there, the store has significantly upgraded its produce over the past couple of years and has good "beef" and "pork" offereings, as well. Living in Mesta Park, I probably do 60-70% of my grocery shopping there, and it's not a "trashy" or "dirty" place at all, imo.

But, I do agree with you that the HL store at 18th & Classen is not "downtown" ... it is "midtown" and, if you didn't say it, it is not well situated to be a "downtown" grocery store ... too far west and not that easily accessible from the burgeoning Triangle area ... the Humphrey grocery prospect at NW 36th & I-235 would be better suited for that, if such a grocer cannot be located at "ground zero" (literally downtown), which it apparently will not happen due to grocer demographics/economic considerations in the immediate future, from what I heard Allison Oshel say.

[dismayed]

I would hate to see a WM anywhere in the downtown area. I think Target could be a great addition though, it has some history with being in urban areas in other parts of the country. In Chicago for example the more upscale version of the company is known as Marshall Fields and you can find them all over, such as on Michigan Ave. It would be cool if we could get one of those downtown.

Yeah, Marshall Fields. I like the idea of that.

[HOT ROD]

We should definitely NOT let a Walmart come within 5 miles of downtown Oklahoma City.

And those in the 10 mile radius, we should DEMAND that they be URBAN and fully foliaged!

[bdub02]

Is this actually being planned? Or is it just a hypothetical poll. A downtown Walmart would not only make OKC a laughing stock, I think it would hurt the image of downtown and ultimately curb the growth of residential downtown.

Downtown needs choices that you will NOT find in rural hicktowns scattered throught the country. People aren't going to want to live downtown to only have the same choices in retail that you would find in hicktowns like McAllister or Sallisaw.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I believe that question is: WalMart or nothing.

[CuatrodeMayo]

What would be wrong with an urban-style WM?

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

What the heck is an urban style walmart? You mean like this?:


Perhaps we would be the first city to get one!