OKC vs. Tulsa Retail

[Jersey Boss]

I am not saying OKC has no good retail (they do, I love Allton's!!). But it is kind of depressing knowing Nordstrom doesn't think enough of OKC to have a store here, yet they have stores in smaller markets, like Providence, among others. OKC has enough wealth to support one of these stores.

OKC needs one of these as a branding point. I am not criticizing anyone or their views, I just feel a Nordstrom would do wonders for OKC.

You will be surprised comparing OKC to Providence. It is obvious why Nordstrom is in one and not the other.
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/provi...lahoma-city-ok

[Sooner.Arch]

You're right that Classen Curve is coming along nicely and is much improved compared to how it was under the previous owners. No space for an upscale department store though. Now if they would build the "lifestyle" portion that was originally supposed to be anchored by REI...

I think the space next behind west elm and anthropology would be a large enough space for a similar size of saks in Utica.

[bchris02]

I think the space next behind west elm and anthropology would be a large enough space for a similar size of saks in Utica.

Agreed. That's where REI was originally supposed to go before it was held up by NIMBYs. I still think that would have been a better location than in a shopping center with a Wal-Mart and Ross.

[T. Jamison]

You will be surprised comparing OKC to Providence. It is obvious why Nordstrom is in one and not the other.
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/provi...lahoma-city-ok

You're comparing the Providence Metro Area to Oklahoma City proper.

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/provi...-ok-metro-area

Still shows pretty much the same thing though.

[Jersey Boss]

You're comparing the Providence Metro Area to Oklahoma City proper.

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/provi...-ok-metro-area

Still shows pretty much the same thing though.

Thanks for the correction. I guess I used the wrong drop box entity.

[Pete]

What retailers look for primarily is density and high incomes within a 1-, 3- and 5-mile radius from any proposed location.

OKC always looks bad in this type of analysis because we are not densely populated anywhere in the metro and our incomes are low due to the low cost of living.

So, when things get to the final decision makers, the numbers always look bad.

[BG918]

Wait what?... All of Nicolas Hills/Classen Curve is upscale. Utica Square is also so run down now, even the landscaping is terrible.

It looks the same as it always has, obviously a lot depends on when you go it will look different in the winter vs. when they plant a lot of flowers in the spring. They do need to infill the Miss Jackson’s/Petty’s site, maybe a Nordstrom will fit there

[stlokc]

What retailers look for primarily is density and high incomes within a 1-, 3- and 5-mile radius from any proposed location.

OKC always looks bad in this type of analysis because we are not densely populated anywhere in the metro and our incomes are low due to the low cost of living.

So, when things get to the final decision makers, the numbers always look bad.

The other problem that OKC has is that it’s areas of high income are dispersed and are surrounded and intermingled with areas of low income. Nichols Hills is wealthy, but a 3-mile or 5-mile analysis would include the Village and areas east of Western/Wilshire. Quail Creek is well off, but geographically close to the apartments along 122nd/Penn. Even farther north, there are beautiful subdivisions and then they put $200K tract homes all interspersed in between.

[Pete]

The other problem that OKC has is that it’s areas of high income are dispersed and are surrounded and intermingled with areas of low income. Nichols Hills is wealthy, but a 3-mile or 5-mile analysis would include the Village and areas east of Western/Wilshire. Quail Creek is well off, but geographically close to the apartments along 122nd/Penn. Even farther north, there are beautiful subdivisions and then they put $200K tract homes all interspersed in between.

That's right.

I have mentioned before that for years I was a commercial real estate broker that specialized in retail properties in OKC. Worked with lots of national retailers and OKC was always a tough sell because no matter the site, the 3- and 5- mile radius demographics never looked good, at least when just looking at cold numbers.

It's one of the big reasons the big boys and higher end places have been slow to come here.

But, once they do, virtually all of them exceed expectations and that has helped bring more and more.

[Pete]

I've updated the list on the first post of this thread.

I would appreciate those with Tulsa knowledge to mention any stores I've missed and to double-check everything.

[poe]

Thanks, Pete!

I believe Art of Shaving is now closed. Last time I was at Penn, it wasn’t operating.

[HOT ROD]

for OKC, quickly off the top of my head - don't we also have Aldi and Winco, and (coming soon) Alamo Drafthouse, Bob's Chophouse, and Ruth's Chris?

Can't wait for the IKEA announcement as well.

[roci28]

Also exclusive to OKC is V's Barbershop. Don't know if you'd consider that retail or not though.

[bombermwc]

That's right.

I have mentioned before that for years I was a commercial real estate broker that specialized in retail properties in OKC. Worked with lots of national retailers and OKC was always a tough sell because no matter the site, the 3- and 5- mile radius demographics never looked good, at least when just looking at cold numbers.

It's one of the big reasons the big boys and higher end places have been slow to come here.

But, once they do, virtually all of them exceed expectations and that has helped bring more and more.

And what's funny is that this is seen as a good thing from so many other perspectives because it keeps a "class" segregation down better. Not that we dont still have it via private schools/gated neighborhoods/etc, but in general the wealth distribution in OKC is MUCH more balanced than in other cities. I just wish more retailers would see the light earlier in the game rather than later so we dont have to go through the song-and-dance each time to convince someone to come here.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

Wait what?... All of Nicolas Hills/Classen Curve is upscale. Utica Square is also so run down now, even the landscaping is terrible.

Lol. Utica square is the furthest thing from run down.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

I've updated the list on the first post of this thread.

I would appreciate those with Tulsa knowledge to mention any stores I've missed and to double-check everything.

As I said on the last page, Tulsa exclusively has a Pendletons. It also exclusively has a Marmi shoes and gearhead outfitters,

Additionally, Tulsa is getting a Winco.

[TeeDub2]

for OKC, quickly off the top of my head - don't we also have Aldi and Winco, and (coming soon) Alamo Drafthouse, Bob's Chophouse, and Ruth's Chris?

Can't wait for the IKEA announcement as well.

Tulsa I believe has several Aldi's and a Ruth Chris at River Spirit.

[Pete]

Restaurants are not included in the list.

[Jersey Boss]

ALDI'S are pretty much "everywhere".

[Pete]

I believe Aldi came to OKC before Tulsa, but can't confirm.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

Does quik trip count?

[soonerfan_in_okc]

Regarding the fresh market in Tulsa; I have no idea how it stays open. I just bought a home nearby so I visit it quite often, and half the time there are more employees than customers. It is really, really nice - the nicest in oklahoma imo - but prices out 85% of oklahoma shoppers.

[Pete]

Does quik trip count?

Not unless OnCue does.

[Thomas Vu]

I never saw an Aldi in OKC until I moved out of Norman (2011), but I know there were Aldi's in Tulsa before I moved out from Tulsa (2006)

[Swake]

Not unless OnCue does.

Quick Trip is a semi-national chain with 800 locations in 13 states with more than 20k employees and $10 billion a year in sales while being regarded as the best convince store brand in the nation along with Philly based WaWa. OneCue is not. They aren't comparable.