Streetcar

[Plutonic Panda]

Why don’t they allow each project to be voted on individually with MAPS 4?

[Jersey Boss]

So the projects the CoC wants that the public doesn't will get approved piggy back style.

[kukblue1]

So what time are they checking fares and what time are they not. Got on yesterday about 5 did the bricktown loop from the gardens to ballpark. No one checked maybe about 15 on car. After movie at 10pm someone was on their checking for fares. Busy at that point. Are they doing much checking during business hours or pretty much just nights.

[shawnw]

I've only been queried for my pass once, last weekend during the big 12 tournament.

[catch22]

OKC Guy is seeing this as wasteful spending when t is quite literally the opposite. If a streetcar breaks for any reason, getting a part shipped overnight from the manufacturer is a very costly maneuver. They increase the price and tack on exhorborant fees and handling charges on top of the cost to ship it. While it’s not necessary to have it on hand, it saves the taxpayers money in the future by reducing cost to acquire parts, insulates the public from the burden of dealing with a manufacturer that is out of business (if that were to happen), and increases the reliability of the system as a car out of service can be returned to service same day or next day, instead of several days later.

To me, that is a shining example of an efficient and cost effective government. Bravo to the streetcar committee, MAPS board, and OKC for thinking ahead and procuring parts ahead of time. We are blessed to have a system that is forward thinking.

And, to OKC guy’s point about insurance and warranties, those parts and labor charges can be paid out by the insurance company or warranty even after a part has been changed out. So if a GeeWhiz XYZ3000 fails on the streetcar due to a collision with a passenger vehicle, GW XYZ3000 can be replaced since it is on hand, and insurance can buy that part for OKC to replenish the spare. Seems like you’d rather have the vehicle out of service for 3 weeks while insurance decides what they want to pay. In a transportation system the goal is reliability, and who pays for repairs or warranty work is always figured out later.

To bring my company back into the equation, we lease a lot of the engines. But guess who replaces broken parts? We do because it’s quicker. Who compensates United for the work? The engine lessor.

I just can’t figure out the controversy here.

[David]

Ok so I was wrong on MAPS1 to MAPS2.

Arena was standalone and an extension of one project when the city had recently obtained a BB franchise and city had embraced Thunder with mega support.

Maps2 to 3 declined and that was 10 years ago. The out of downtown city has grown so much in those 10 years and suffice it to say are turned off by Streetcar. If Maps4 has SC included I predict a failure. So many citizens are disenfranchised like bus service around the city and roads needs.

Why do you persist in passing off your opinions as fact? You don't like the project, you have made this abundantly clear, but that does not mean the rest of the city agrees with you.

[OKC Guy]

Oklahoma City, OK - New data shows the streetcars are struggling to keep traction a few months after opening.

According to new data from the transportation department ridership has dropped by more than 50% since the city started collecting fares February 1st. In January nearly 49,000 people hopped on the streetcars, but that number fell to less than 21,000 people last month

[OKC Guy]

Oklahoma City, OK - New data shows the streetcars are struggling to keep traction a few months after opening.

According to new data from the transportation department ridership has dropped by more than 50% since the city started collecting fares February 1st. In January nearly 49,000 people hopped on the streetcars, but that number fell to less than 21,000 people last month

http://www.news9.com/story/40139934/...50-in-february

[OKC Guy]

Why don’t they allow each project to be voted on individually with MAPS 4?

They should else it will all be defeated

We are past the point where downtown was dead and just about everything was good. Now we starting to get to pet projects or looking for something to spend money on.

Its good they are asking for input but it highlights there are not any pressing needs. MAPS 1 was a pressing need and a huge success.

I think they bundle as an old habit and to squeeze in less popular items knowing they won’t pass alone. Voters are wising up.

Keep on mind every project we add adds reocurring costs so with the amount of projects already done that bill gets higher and higher. At some point we can’t sustain every project and some will start to slip into disrepair or substandard.

I wish I could find a listing of annual expenses by item such as ballpark and canal and Peake and rapids. Would be nice to get a sense of what they are.

We have and are adding streetcar and convention center which will have some major annual expense needs which I mainly want to see which projects will or have suck up cost needs over time.

Voting seperate is the way to go foreard in my opinion.

[Laramie]

Why do you persist in passing off your opinions as fact? You don't like the project, you have made this abundantly clear, but that does not mean the rest of the city agrees with you.

David, we're still waiting to hear what projects he submitted? He never answered that question because he's a MAPS' naysayer.

Again, OKC Guy, what project have you submitted to Ideas 4 MAPS?

[OKC Guy]

David, we're still waiting to hear what projects he submitted? He never answered that question because he's a MAPS' naysayer.

Again, OKC Guy, what project have you submitted to Ideas 4 MAPS?

Maybe when you and the rest list yours forst then I might.

I can assure you my councilman has my list and is aware if its bundled I vote no.

Also, good effort on the current topic derail, some will try anything to deflect. The $2,500,000 was not needed nor is it a smart move at this juncture. We have spare parts from the manufacturer based on prior history that we already paid for. We have warranty. We do not know what parts will break years down the road and may have bought wrong spare parts. We have no public list of parts for such a big outlay. We have no way of knowing where and how parts will be kept to prevent loss or stolen. We have no accountibility because we can’t get a list of parts. Why is it such a secret? Only one place place makes them. Keep in mind this in 3rd month of go live. Why buy a spare battery when ours are warranted and the tech will change? Does Prius owners buy a spare battery years before they might need it? Do Car owners buy spare batteries?

Lots of unanswered questions and I have a right to know as a taxpayer. The difficulty in even getting info is how cities lose trust that was so hard to earn over a few decades. One project is garnering all the bad press why is that?

[RodH]

Maybe when you and the rest list yours forst then I might.

I can assure you my councilman has my list and is aware if its bundled I vote no.

Also, good effort on the current topic derail, some will try anything to deflect. The $2,500,000 was not needed nor is it a smart move at this juncture. We have spare parts from the manufacturer based on prior history that we already paid for. We have warranty. We do not know what parts will break years down the road and may have bought wrong spare parts. We have no public list of parts for such a big outlay. We have no way of knowing where and how parts will be kept to prevent loss or stolen. We have no accountibility because we can’t get a list of parts. Why is it such a secret? Only one place place makes them. Keep in mind this in 3rd month of go live. Why buy a spare battery when ours are warranted and the tech will change? Does Prius owners buy a spare battery years before they might need it? Do Car owners buy spare batteries?

Lots of unanswered questions and I have a right to know as a taxpayer. The difficulty in even getting info is how cities lose trust that was so hard to earn over a few decades. One project is garnering all the bad press why is that?

I have come to the conclusion that you are a troll and probably have never been to OKC. I suspect that you may not even be in the United States. Your posts indicate only a superficial awareness of this community and provide no positive contribution. Despite attempts by numerous posters to direct you to where you can find the answers to the questions that you have raised you have continued to claim that secrets are being kept from you. Go ahead and vote no if you can. If I am wrong and you really are a taxpayer your councilman has my sympathy.

[catch22]

This message is hidden because OKC Guy is on your ignore list.
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This isn’t so bad now.

[d-usa]

I don’t even keep up with any really close streetcar stuff, but it’s pretty clear to me that this isn’t a “three months in, everything is broken, we need parts” situation. It’s a “we got extra funds, so let’s warehouse stuff in case we need it in 5+ years and then use it right away without having to order or machine something” opportunity.

[BoulderSooner]

I don’t even keep up with any really close streetcar stuff, but it’s pretty clear to me that this isn’t a “three months in, everything is broken, we need parts” situation. It’s a “we got extra funds, so let’s warehouse stuff in case we need it in 5+ years and then use it right away without having to order or machine something” opportunity.

this is absolutly correct ..... and all of the MAPS projects were/are able to have some of the "extra" maps funds .....

[BoulderSooner]

The SC good or bad, is that OKC rejected streetcars almost 70 years ago and became an auto, suburban, white flight city.

this is not really accurate

[Urban Pioneer]

I am not going to address the line by line commentary on here. However, I would like to point out, while I might be one of the biggest supporters of the streetcar, I am also one of it's fiercest critics.

Red lights, incorrectly parked cars, and fares have been significant problems. We are funding a resolution to the lights and about 1/3rd have been resolved. The parked cars seem to be better resolved after the online criticism over the change in handling to OCPD (both on OKCTALK and Twitter). The fares are for others to decide. I have been and always will be against fares. To me, the streetcar should be essentially a pedestrian enabler. It should be an extension of our built environment to lessen the need for more parking, better land use, less noise, and fewer emissions.

If there are extensions proposed in MAPS 4, they need to be carefully considered and in tandem part of a thoughtful land use plan. Ideally, extensions would be in dual-track alignments and if possible, in isolated right-of-ways.

The streetcar was never meant to be the end solution to the historic 80-year lack of investment in public transit in the OKC metro. It was meant to be the centerpiece of a comprehensive plan involving more city buses, commuter rail, and BRT.

I think we should have a conversation about what using the streetcar in a traditional light-rail format in the context of extensions might look like. And I write this simply because I think that dual-purpose alignments on BNSF (freight rail) are highly questionable. In the next few months, hopefully, we will have some answers from the RTA about this issue.

Regarding overall ridership numbers, a significant drop is to be expected with fares and the confusion surrounding them. There is also a direct correlation between high-ridership days and weather conditions. As weather operations improve, red lights go away, and the city operates the streetcar more efficiently, it will be interesting to see how things level out.

[jedicurt]

I am not going to address the line by line commentary on here. However, I would like to point out, while I might be one of the biggest supporters of the streetcar, I am also one of it's fiercest critics.

Red lights, incorrectly parked cars, and fares have been significant problems. We are funding a resolution to the lights and about 1/3rd have been resolved. The parked cars seem to be better resolved after the online criticism over the change in handling to OCPD (both on OKCTALK and Twitter). The fares are for others to decide. I have been and always will be against fares. To me, the streetcar should be essentially a pedestrian enabler. It should be an extension of our built environment to lessen the need for more parking, better land use, less noise, and fewer emissions.

If there are extensions proposed in MAPS 4, they need to be carefully considered and in tandem part of a thoughtful land use plan. Ideally, extensions would be in dual-track alignments and if possible, in isolated right-of-ways.

The streetcar was never meant to be the end solution to the historic 80-year lack of investment in public transit in the OKC metro. It was meant to be the centerpiece of a comprehensive plan involving more city buses, commuter rail, and BRT.

I think we should have a conversation about what using the streetcar in a traditional light-rail format in the context of extensions might look like. And I write this simply because I think that dual-purpose alignments on BNSF (freight rail) are highly questionable. In the next few months, hopefully, we will have some answers from the RTA about this issue.

Regarding overall ridership numbers, a significant drop is to be expected with fares and the confusion surrounding them. There is also a direct correlation between high-ridership days and weather conditions. As weather operations improve, red lights go away, and the city operates the streetcar more efficiently, it will be interesting to see how things level out.

and UP, myself and i think many others on here appreciate your comments and your concerns. absolutely you have been on of the fiercest critics of the streetcar, because you want it to work. i always look forward to your posts about what is going on with the streetcar, they are always informative and give me hope that maybe someday it can be the project that i wanted it to be from the get go.

[Rover]

The SC good or bad, is that OKC rejected streetcars almost 70 years ago and became an auto, suburban, white flight city.

The two are totally separate issues.
Forced bussing and school integration triggered white flight.

[Mott]

The two are totally separate issues.
Forced bussing and school integration triggered white flight.

I’m not taking sides, but having graduated from old John Marshall in 1968, there was no suburban Edmond, Moore, etc., and there was no mass transit. Right or wrong is not the debate, but people flocked to the new suburbs, via their cars, and we became spread out. It’s great to see downtown returning, and the maps program has made that possible. But building mass transit here is not going to be easy, or without mistakes.
.

.

[TheTravellers]

...

Red lights, incorrectly parked cars, and fares have been significant problems. We are funding a resolution to the lights and about 1/3rd have been resolved. The parked cars seem to be better resolved after the online criticism over the change in handling to OCPD (both on OKCTALK and Twitter). The fares are for others to decide. I have been and always will be against fares. To me, the streetcar should be essentially a pedestrian enabler. It should be an extension of our built environment to lessen the need for more parking, better land use, less noise, and fewer emissions....

Agree with the last three sentences, absolutely. Didn't know that the parked cars problem had been resolved (or at least somewhat), how was that done?

[Urban Pioneer]

We had a very aggressive EMBARK-based enforcement calling in tows. Then enforcement policies changed to OCPD handling it. I believe EMBARK is taking more initiative back on these issues due to the negative response. I have noticed a difference in frequency myself but will re-confirm at the next meeting.

[OKC Guy]

I have come to the conclusion that you are a troll and probably have never been to OKC. I suspect that you may not even be in the United States. Your posts indicate only a superficial awareness of this community and provide no positive contribution. Despite attempts by numerous posters to direct you to where you can find the answers to the questions that you have raised you have continued to claim that secrets are being kept from you. Go ahead and vote no if you can. If I am wrong and you really are a taxpayer your councilman has my sympathy.

Attack the poster not the content (gang mentality here).

I have a question for you, what entertainment venue was in bricktown ballpark forced to close down for MAPS 1 and what made it unique.

My guess is you have no clue and only a resident will know this answer.

I can assure you I an an upstanding citizen in OKC but when I question one MAPS project (out of many) there seems to be a gang up attitude here where only positive discussion can take place and anyone raising serious questions is labeled as an outcast, just like what you are doing.

I’ll wait for your reply but guessing you don’t know the answer.

[OKC Guy]

This isn’t so bad now.

Some hate to hear the other side of topics, so its best you bowed out.

Thanks for the heads up I will likely lose sleep over this. Was hoping you could answer the $2,500,000 questions.

[OKC Guy]

I am not going to address the line by line commentary on here. However, I would like to point out, while I might be one of the biggest supporters of the streetcar, I am also one of it's fiercest critics.

Red lights, incorrectly parked cars, and fares have been significant problems. We are funding a resolution to the lights and about 1/3rd have been resolved. The parked cars seem to be better resolved after the online criticism over the change in handling to OCPD (both on OKCTALK and Twitter). The fares are for others to decide. I have been and always will be against fares. To me, the streetcar should be essentially a pedestrian enabler. It should be an extension of our built environment to lessen the need for more parking, better land use, less noise, and fewer emissions.

If there are extensions proposed in MAPS 4, they need to be carefully considered and in tandem part of a thoughtful land use plan. Ideally, extensions would be in dual-track alignments and if possible, in isolated right-of-ways.

The streetcar was never meant to be the end solution to the historic 80-year lack of investment in public transit in the OKC metro. It was meant to be the centerpiece of a comprehensive plan involving more city buses, commuter rail, and BRT.

I think we should have a conversation about what using the streetcar in a traditional light-rail format in the context of extensions might look like. And I write this simply because I think that dual-purpose alignments on BNSF (freight rail) are highly questionable. In the next few months, hopefully, we will have some answers from the RTA about this issue.

Regarding overall ridership numbers, a significant drop is to be expected with fares and the confusion surrounding them. There is also a direct correlation between high-ridership days and weather conditions. As weather operations improve, red lights go away, and the city operates the streetcar more efficiently, it will be interesting to see how things level out.

I actually agree with not all but most of your post.