Streetcar

[Ross MacLochness]

^^you should enjoy the nice day, have a beer or two, and take a relaxing streetcar ride around town. Might do you good

[catch22]

Dude this is a multi million dollar system. Not a Ford Fiesta you pile your kids in to go to White water Bay. Parts on hand is a huge deal, and it’s not always included in service contracts or warranties. United purchases and stores up to 10,000 different part numbers on hand per fleet type. We likely have a hundred thousand spare parts on hand that United owns at any given time. Why do we do this? So when your hydraulic pump pressure seal fails we can get a brand new or overhauled hydraulic pump installed and take only an hour delay. It costs money up front, but saves time and increases reliability. The alternative is to let the pump fail, cancel the flight while a new pump gets sent from Seattle and get it installed the next day. Oh, Boeing also charges about 4x list price for a rushed part. What’s your problem with spare parts. Warranties only last so long, and consumables are never warranties on anything. Good luck getting your tires changed for free when they wear out.

[jerrywall]

I simply saw it as we fulfilled what we needed up front but had a wish list if there were surplus funds at the end of the project. as it turns out when those numbers rolled in then we fulfilled that wish list of parts. seems smart to me and not some sort of conspiracy.

So much this.

[Urban Pioneer]

I simply saw it as we fulfilled what we needed up front but had a wish list if there were surplus funds at the end of the project. as it turns out when those numbers rolled in then we fulfilled that wish list of parts. seems smart to me and not some sort of conspiracy.

That is correct. We are also working to build a parts consortium with other interested cities. When the pantograph was damaged during training before the system opened, Dallas graciously sent us one of their spare parts. There is a certain number of parts that were basics that came with the vehicle order. We also thought we would see what Dallas, Milwaukee, Detroit, and others might order as well. That further informed what sorts of parts and quantities would be ideal to have sitting on a shelf somewhere. The poster is insinuating that parts are failing. As far as I am aware, we haven’t had any failures causing these recommendations. This is doing due diligence.

[OKC Guy]

^^you should enjoy the nice day, have a beer or two, and take a relaxing streetcar ride around town. Might do you good

This was helpful

[OKC Guy]

Dude this is a multi million dollar system. Not a Ford Fiesta you pile your kids in to go to White water Bay. Parts on hand is a huge deal, and it’s not always included in service contracts or warranties. United purchases and stores up to 10,000 different part numbers on hand per fleet type. We likely have a hundred thousand spare parts on hand that United owns at any given time. Why do we do this? So when your hydraulic pump pressure seal fails we can get a brand new or overhauled hydraulic pump installed and take only an hour delay. It costs money up front, but saves time and increases reliability. The alternative is to let the pump fail, cancel the flight while a new pump gets sent from Seattle and get it installed the next day. Oh, Boeing also charges about 4x list price for a rushed part. What’s your problem with spare parts. Warranties only last so long, and consumables are never warranties on anything. Good luck getting your tires changed for free when they wear out.

You went from Ford car to worldwide airline lol.

SC is not a worldwide people mover it covers a bot over a square mile. Quite the stretch lolol.

Don’t we have spare SC? I believe we have 6 or 7 and run 5? If so we have no need for operations like an airline in business to make money. We can simply swap out cars.

I am not saying we don’t need parts but this soon into it and we spend $2,500,00 in parts. If its that unreliable to require so much not under warranty we can expect numerous breakdowns or don’t need all these spares. One of these is true.

I would equate it more inline with a bus. And there are normal wear and tear items but the amount of expense this early is not good.

The one poster said keeping it private to be competitive lol. There is only one manufacturer of this model/type of streetcar so no other business is going to bid. I would assume all spares have to come from the original manufacturer else any warranty we do have would be voided.

This is not an worldwide airline so no need to be so dramatic

[OKC Guy]

About spare parts this was addressed and authorized a few years ago so why are we buying more?

From 2017:

WHEREAS, Amendment No. 5 to the Contract was approved on May 2, 2017, to purchase additional spare parts and revise the CCTV system to digital technology; and

WHEREAS, Amendment No. 6 to the Contract was approved on November 21, 2017, to authorize the redesign of the pantograph and production of large format color boards;

WARRANTIES
The Vendor shall provide a two (2) year warranty on each Car including all systems, parts and components, referred to as the Total Car Warranty. This Warranty shall apply to each car independently and is effective for two (2) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance. During the Warranty Period, Vendor agrees to provide warranty management services as described in Section 7.7.
The Vendor shall also provide the following additional warranties:
A. Ten (10) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, for each car shell, including under frame, side walls, roof and support brackets, truck frame, axles, floor panels and structure and exterior panels.
B. Four (4) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, on the gear units, couplings, traction motors, and propulsion equipment (excluding invertors) and paint.
C. Two (2) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, on Car batteries.
D. Two (2) years after installation, but not more than three (3) years after delivery for spare parts.
E. Two (2) years after delivery for special tools and test equipment.
Any warranty from a subcontractor or supplier to the Vendor exceeding the periods described herein shall be extended to the City for the same period of time as given to the Vendor.


https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache...9031323217.PDF

[baralheia]

About spare parts this was addressed and authorized a few years ago so why are we buying more?

From 2017:

WHEREAS, Amendment No. 5 to the Contract was approved on May 2, 2017, to purchase additional spare parts and revise the CCTV system to digital technology; and

WHEREAS, Amendment No. 6 to the Contract was approved on November 21, 2017, to authorize the redesign of the pantograph and production of large format color boards;

WARRANTIES
The Vendor shall provide a two (2) year warranty on each Car including all systems, parts and components, referred to as the Total Car Warranty. This Warranty shall apply to each car independently and is effective for two (2) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance. During the Warranty Period, Vendor agrees to provide warranty management services as described in Section 7.7.
The Vendor shall also provide the following additional warranties:
A. Ten (10) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, for each car shell, including under frame, side walls, roof and support brackets, truck frame, axles, floor panels and structure and exterior panels.
B. Four (4) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, on the gear units, couplings, traction motors, and propulsion equipment (excluding invertors) and paint.
C. Two (2) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, on Car batteries.
D. Two (2) years after installation, but not more than three (3) years after delivery for spare parts.
E. Two (2) years after delivery for special tools and test equipment.
Any warranty from a subcontractor or supplier to the Vendor exceeding the periods described herein shall be extended to the City for the same period of time as given to the Vendor.


https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache...9031323217.PDF

Warranties run out, and parts can wear out/be damaged in ways that aren't covered by the warranty. Think collisions, accidents, vandalism, etc - not to mention consumable items like the carbon contact pads on the top of the pantograph, among others. And keep in mind that with collections above the original budget, this was an ask to help provide additional spares in stock for when they are needed. Many of these parts may not be used until well after the warranty expires - but buying them now with surplus MAPS3 funds will save the City money in the future; they won't have to pay the premiums for getting the manufacturer to rush them a replacement. This ask for additional spares is really, truly, honestly, a non-issue.

[OKC Guy]

Warranties run out, and parts can wear out/be damaged in ways that aren't covered by the warranty. Think collisions, accidents, vandalism, etc - not to mention consumable items like the carbon contact pads on the top of the pantograph, among others. And keep in mind that with collections above the original budget, this was an ask to help provide additional spares in stock for when they are needed. Many of these parts may not be used until well after the warranty expires - but buying them now with surplus MAPS3 funds will save the City money in the future; they won't have to pay the premiums for getting the manufacturer to rush them a replacement. This ask for additional spares is really, truly, honestly, a non-issue.

You say its a non issue yet $2,500,000 is not chump change. You claim we save money and yet you nor anyone knows this its pure speculation. I can speculate we have very few peoblems and thus all that money is wasted sitting on a shelf not used and then comes up missing later on when needed. No one knows for certain what will break down, or it may be a same part breaks more often and we only got 1. And other parts may break and we got zero of that one. You brush it off as no big deal but not me. Its my tax dollars too.

The warranty is pretty extensive and lengthy. So we are buying parts for years down the road when we may not need them? If we added $100k in extra parts on top of warranted parts thats not quite the leap. But $2,500,000 is.

Someone said we bought a battery. Ours are warranted for at least 2 years. Battery technology changes fast too and the spare may not be as good as what we can buy in 2 years.

My main complaint is the focus was in getting street light systems purchased and some here were even livid it wasn’t approved all at once a month or two ago. So now its addressed yet this $2,500,00 was snuck into the same approval meeting. There was no outcry nor demand for needing $2,500,000 in spares. Just because there is Maps money does not mean its a wise spend. This SC seems like its gonna be a money pit.

We have a warranty and it covers everything plus we got and paid for spares already. Thats why I have addressed this with my councilman and am awaiting his reply. To spend tax money without an urgent need is not wise. This topic needed more open discussion beforehand.

I’ll let the board know anything significant he replies with. But a new system with over 2 years bumper to bumper warranty should not need $2,500,000 in extra parts requests cost. This is how you lose public support for future MAPS projects.

[baralheia]

You say its a non issue yet $2,500,000 is not chump change. You claim we save money and yet you nor anyone knows this its pure speculation. I can speculate we have very few peoblems and thus all that money is wasted sitting on a shelf not used and then comes up missing later on when needed. No one knows for certain what will break down, or it may be a same part breaks more often and we only got 1. And other parts may break and we got zero of that one. You brush it off as no big deal but not me. Its my tax dollars too.

The warranty is pretty extensive and lengthy. So we are buying parts for years down the road when we may not need them? If we added $100k in extra parts on top of warranted parts thats not quite the leap. But $2,500,000 is.

Someone said we bought a battery. Ours are warranted for at least 2 years. Battery technology changes fast too and the spare may not be as good as what we can buy in 2 years.

My main complaint is the focus was in getting street light systems purchased and some here were even livid it wasn’t approved all at once a month or two ago. So now its addressed yet this $2,500,00 was snuck into the same approval meeting. There was no outcry nor demand for needing $2,500,000 in spares. Just because there is Maps money does not mean its a wise spend. This SC seems like its gonna be a money pit.

We have a warranty and it covers everything plus we got and paid for spares already. Thats why I have addressed this with my councilman and am awaiting his reply. To spend tax money without an urgent need is not wise. This topic needed more open discussion beforehand.

I’ll let the board know anything significant he replies with. But a new system with over 2 years bumper to bumper warranty should not need $2,500,000 in extra parts requests cost. This is how you lose public support for future MAPS projects.

I'm not involved with the Streetcar in any way, shape, or fashion, but I'm following the logic that's been laid out by Urban Pioneer and others here, and what they've said makes perfect sense to me. You keep stressing the warranty, but bumper-to-bumper warranties do NOT cover things like collisions, vandalism, acts of God, improper installation or maintenance, etc. There *will* be repairs needed that don't fall under the terms of the warranty. That's not speculation, that's a fact. The Streetcar has already been in one collision with a car that I am aware of. And it's also important to note that parts are a tangible good. If EMBARK finds that certain spares have been over-ordered or were unnecessary, that investment can be recovered by selling the parts to other transit agencies or sold as surplus property on the open market. These additional parts should be thought of as insurance, to ensure that things can be quickly fixed if and when they break.

Compared to the rest of the budget for the Streetcar, $2.5 MM really isn't much. The Streetcar's budget alone was $135 MM; this additional cost for spares, maintenance equipment, and a support vehicle amounts to 1.8% of that budget - and just three tenths of one percent of the original MAPS3 overall budget ($777 MM). And excess collections for MAPS3 can only be spent on MAPS3 projects, so it's not like the City is spending money it doesn't have, or spending money out of the general budget.

[shawnw]

I believe there have been two accidents with the streetcar now. The one at 10th/Walker and the one at 6th/Broadway.

[OKC Guy]

I'm not involved with the Streetcar in any way, shape, or fashion, but I'm following the logic that's been laid out by Urban Pioneer and others here, and what they've said makes perfect sense to me. You keep stressing the warranty, but bumper-to-bumper warranties do NOT cover things like collisions, vandalism, acts of God, improper installation or maintenance, etc. There *will* be repairs needed that don't fall under the terms of the warranty. That's not speculation, that's a fact. The Streetcar has already been in one collision with a car that I am aware of. And it's also important to note that parts are a tangible good. If EMBARK finds that certain spares have been over-ordered or were unnecessary, that investment can be recovered by selling the parts to other transit agencies or sold as surplus property on the open market. These additional parts should be thought of as insurance, to ensure that things can be quickly fixed if and when they break.

Compared to the rest of the budget for the Streetcar, $2.5 MM really isn't much. The Streetcar's budget alone was $135 MM; this additional cost for spares, maintenance equipment, and a support vehicle amounts to 1.8% of that budget - and just three tenths of one percent of the original MAPS3 overall budget ($777 MM). And excess collections for MAPS3 can only be spent on MAPS3 projects, so it's not like the City is spending money it doesn't have, or spending money out of the general budget.

City has insurance and lawyers to claim if others fault. Again, spare parts for something you have no idea what will need repaired. How do you know what type of collision will happen and thus the exact spare parts needed? You are only sticking up for the project as I am finding its a gang mentality here full of specualtion.

$2,500,000 is a lot of money and some are trying to downplay it as nothing. Thats the problem when you spend other peoples money it seems like a bottemless pit. And its exactly why I question the spare parts. No one yet has given a logocal reason for this big of expense based on how much is covered by warranty or insurance. Most are speculating this why I reached out to my councilman to get the real answers and express my dismay at this early expense.

Going forward quite a few people will start to question the dollars listed on MAPS 4 based on this extra early expense for SC.

The real worry is in 2-4 years when things really do start to break and how much money we spend then. If $2,500,000 is nothing to you at what point is it? $20,000,000? This is why I will not support any SC expansion until we truly see all the costs of operating over time. Every dollar spent on SC is less for the other needs we have.

Imagine how much we could improve bus service if we threw $2,500,000 at it.

I can see this is a tough topic and plenty run to defend SC as soon as me or anyone questions it. All of my concerns are legit and thus why I still do not see the need to spend that much money on spare parts only 3 months into start date when we have warranties and already paid for spares. And I see how some downplay the extra expense as if its play money.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

I give up, no more. Like DCSooner, working for the govt in logistics, nothing here seems out of place. As Catch has noted with United, and UP explicitly explained, this is pretty routine.

[Zorba]

Thanks for the rational voices out there. Yes, we did receive a certain amount of OEM parts that was built into the streetcar vehicle purchases.

The general consensus is that you always want as many spare parts as possible available in your inventory while a current model of a vehicle is being produced. That helps keep annual costs down longterm for the agency operating the system.

Our Subcommitteee, Oversight Board, and City Council have acted cautiously and judiciously to not spend money that we don't have. There has always been a general awareness that there was a desire for more spare parts and other items to make the system's operation better and to keep longterm costs lower. Since MAPS is a pay-as-you-go program, we waited until our main contract was completed and all construction costs expended before making these decisions.

And FWIW, our original desire was around $6.5 million and we whittled that down in the spirit of compromise with the other committees who had requests to improve their project completion as well.

The Wheel Trueing machine is a great example of a singular expensive part. We can ship our wheels out of the state to get them machined, however, the surplus allowed us to buy one. This move will help reduce EMBARK's longterm streetcar costs.

I'm not going out of my way to pull agendas for people who clearly simply want to denigrate the project. This sentiment particularly regarding items that have already been through the public's democratic process and been approved by all three public bodies.

Thank you for the information. This sounds like a very good idea to me. Streetcars have very low production quantities (compared to many other industrial or consumer products) which means once they go out of production getting spare parts gets hard and much more expensive. Eventually companies get rid of tooling, companies go out of business and get bought.

Getting your own tooling also allows you to keep less spare parts, because if you can true a wheel in a few days and get it back on the shelf vs sending it off and it being out for a month, you've effectively increased the availability of each part.

Having spare parts in inventory also massively increases the availability of the streetcars, because many of these parts probably have 6 month lead times while still in production and could be a year or more after production ends. If you are waiting on parts, the street cars is seating in the barn instead of doing its job.

[Zorba]

This still makes no sense

Why weren’t parts part of initial contract?

And why no warranty if we are buying parts in 3rd month

And if parts are failing why so fast (thinking long term)?

If parts were needed and known why not added up front?

If we do have warranty what are parts for?

If no warranty we got ripped off

The parts aren't for immediate use but to help maintain the system for years into the future. The parts will be the cheapest and most available today while our specific cars are still in production. It will also allow us to have much higher availability of the cars when we can fix them immediately as opposed to waiting on parts when something does go wrong.

When airlines buy a new type of aircraft, the OEM gives them a list of the minimum recommend spare parts to keep on hand, most airlines buy above and beyond this list as well. The initial set of spare parts and tooling can end up costing as much as a whole airplane. Having the big stock of parts keeps the plane flying as opposed to sitting on the ground, even though some of them may only be used once every 10 years or more.

[Urban Pioneer]

I’m a bit surprised that now, this late in the project, spare parts and reasonable expenditures to ensure that EMBARK is not saddled with unreasonable operational costs is now a issue. I get that you don’t like the streetcar OKCGuy, but the train has departed.

[OKC Guy]

I’m a bit surprised that now, this late in the project, spare parts and reasonable expenditures to ensure that EMBARK is not saddled with unreasonable operational costs is now a issue. I get that you don’t like the streetcar OKCGuy, but the train has departed.

- Streetcar is the only MAPS project I don’t like.

- Costs are something voters should all be tuned into but the attitude I see here by those involved or supporting it show a segment assuming money grows on trees.

- This is a tourist ride

- The road design is wrong

- Downtown needs to start taxing their own downtowners for these pet projects

- The rest of OKC does not share your sentiment and if you don’t believe me just wait until MAPS 4 fails which is sad because there are good projects the forgotten part of OKC would support

Its ok to keep that attitude because the train may have left the station but is not going far.

I’ll let you know what my councilman says once he responds, still waiting.

[warreng88]

1 - Streetcar is the only MAPS project I don’t like.

2 - Costs are something voters should all be tuned into but the attitude I see here by those involved or supporting it show a segment assuming money grows on trees.

3 - This is a tourist ride

4 - The road design is wrong

5 - Downtown needs to start taxing their own downtowners for these pet projects

6 - The rest of OKC does not share your sentiment and if you don’t believe me just wait until MAPS 4 fails which is sad because there are good projects the forgotten part of OKC would support

Its ok to keep that attitude because the train may have left the station but is not going far.

I’ll let you know what my councilman says once he responds, still waiting.

I added numbers to talk about each one at a time:
1. Obviously...
2. Where were you on the other projects when came in over budget or had to cut something back? The Oklahoma River Improvements scaled back improvements significantly; The wellness centers were originally supposed to be aquatic centers; the number of sidewalks were scaled back as costs went up; the Bennett Event Center already has leaks that is going to cost the city money.
3. No it is not. It is a downtown circulator that is the start of a much larger project including an RTA. There needs to be a way for people to get around downtown when they get there and it is just the start of hopefully many more miles of streetcar throughout the inner core and BRT outside of it.
4. Why do you say that?
5. It is a city sales tax that everyone can vote on.
6. I know a lot of people who hate the streetcar and think it was a waste of money. Those are the same people who thought the Ford Center was a waster of money too. Look where we are now.

[OKC Guy]

I added numbers to talk about each one at a time:
1. Obviously...
2. Where were you on the other projects when came in over budget or had to cut something back? The Oklahoma River Improvements scaled back improvements significantly; The wellness centers were originally supposed to be aquatic centers; the number of sidewalks were scaled back as costs went up; the Bennett Event Center already has leaks that is going to cost the city money.
3. No it is not. It is a downtown circulator that is the start of a much larger project including an RTA. There needs to be a way for people to get around downtown when they get there and it is just the start of hopefully many more miles of streetcar throughout the inner core and BRT outside of it.
4. Why do you say that?
5. It is a city sales tax that everyone can vote on.
6. I know a lot of people who hate the streetcar and think it was a waste of money. Those are the same people who thought the Ford Center was a waster of money too. Look where we are now.

1. I supported all other projects

2. None required this big of outlay 3 months after opening. The Wellness centers are booming with business

3. Its a tourist ride. When OMNI and Convention center open that will be its most useful need. It does not circulate in a timely manner to be called a method to move mass people and reduce traffic. For the money we could have purchased and run free at least 20 luxury min buses much faster. Plus as the cars start to break they stop the whole system. Had the route been tic tac toe type design running back and forth without turns it would have been more people mover and easier to expand outward. This current sustem is not able to help anyone driving to work as there are no hub parking areas for it plus peole can park in lots close to work. No one is riding car from Edmond or Moore to get on a system that is too untimely. It would add 20-30 minutes to their commute. This system is only useful to those who live close tourists or bar hopping. Its a tourist ride.

4. See 3

5. Yes. And every MAPS has seen declining approval percentage.

6. There is no comparison from MAPS1 to now. Back then we had nothing downtown and it was dead. MAPS 1 transformed our city. MAPS 2 also was needed. MAPS 3 was good except streetcar. We should have focused on getting people to downtown first and could have focused on RTA first. This SC failure is going to set back support for RTA bigtime imo. SC was more a want than a need. Our outter bus system is broken and had we started with bus hubs and service first this would have proved the merits of moving people to downtown from other areas. We went from needs to wants and this has now created a division of people and how they view OKC (residents not visitors). As you can see from this thread the attitude has changed from one united city to downtowners and burbs. Downtowners now feel entitled to every pet project without consideration of costs and future operating expenses. They scoff at voters like me who being up faults or concerns. Its a gang mentality to protect pet projects.

Any future MAPS thats bundled will fail to pass. We are at the poikt we need to vote each project independently else all will fail if bundled. For me no matter what is in MAPS 4 if it has any Streetcar funding mark me down as no vote. And many others feel the same I would easily say its a majority. I would vote for a soccer stadium on its own but not bundled with SC expenses. MAPS 1 to MAPS 4 are night and day different. Our downtown is doing great now and needs to start being self supporting more. We still need to protect Thunder and Peake is going to need major money in about 10 or so years. If we keep spending on major new projects by then there will be no money for major upkeep of Peake. At some point it will need a new tax to rebuild or do major upgrade and we have to hope all these other pet projected projects don’t take away the money or support.

Very few cities have had success with SC. Portland is a rare example. We need to wait some years before dumping more money in SC:

1. Will it ever gain daily riders

2. How efficient can it run since it competes with cars

3. How many times does it break down and stop whole system. We won’t know for a few years but spending $2,500,000 on extra spare parts in 3rd month does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling this is efficient system. We already got parts and warranty so does this outlay scream “system is so prone to breakdowns we need to buy mega spare parts now”. If it was reliable there is no need. We have spare cars and parts already. So this is excess monies imo.

4. Where will RTA hubs be? If we had rail bringing people downtown we would need a large area to process them

5. What if we discover later on the location of tracks is not ideal for inflow RTA or even business? Can’t easily pull up rails and move.

6. We left off close by areas and locked them out of ownership. For example the large mecdical district could have been a great spar had they run rails east/west on 10th. Could have been more inclusive with initial plan. Now with it having rough start all monemtum was lost and people are not going to support expansion especially with all these added costs just 3 months in. Its a tourist ride not a people mover and that is something everyone needs to embrace. Its calling card is OMNI and convention center and bar hopping and some events.


Once MAPS 4 fails all the good of prior MAPS will be lost. I am turned off by the attitude of downtowners who run to attack anyone who questions the SC.

[David]

5. Yes. And every MAPS has seen declining approval percentage.

You know that you are completely wrong on this easily verifiable fact, right?

[Laramie]

Metropolitan Area Projects plan 1993: Yes 33,367 - 55 percent $350 million
Metropolitan Area Projects plan for Kids 2001: Yes 36,866 - 61 percent $700 million
MAPS for Hoops extension for NBA arena upgrades 2008: Yes 44,849 - 62 percent $121.6 million
MAPS III 2009: Yes 40,956 - 54 percent $777 million (only year of decline)

Sources:

Metropolitan Area Projects Plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrop..._Projects_Plan
Voters approve $121.6 million in arena upgrades to lure NBA team: http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3277413

[OKC Guy]

Metropolitan Area Projects plan 1993: Yes 33,367 - 55 percent $350 million
Metropolitan Area Projects plan for Kids 2001: Yes 36,866 - 61 percent $700 million
MAPS for Hoops extension for NBA arena upgrades 2008: Yes 44,849 - 62 percent $121.6 million
MAPS III 2009: Yes 40,956 - 54 percent $777 million (only year of decline)

Sources:

Metropolitan Area Projects Plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrop..._Projects_Plan
Voters approve $121.6 million in arena upgrades to lure NBA team: http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3277413

Ok so I was wrong on MAPS1 to MAPS2.

Arena was standalone and an extension of one project when the city had recently obtained a BB franchise and city had embraced Thunder with mega support.

Maps2 to 3 declined and that was 10 years ago. The out of downtown city has grown so much in those 10 years and suffice it to say are turned off by Streetcar. If Maps4 has SC included I predict a failure. So many citizens are disenfranchised like bus service around the city and roads needs.

[Laramie]

Every MAPS initiative have had unpopular projects voters didn't like. What would you, OKC Guy like to see on MAPS IV and what have you submitted?

If you want MAPS 4 to be for neighborhoods; please submit your ideas to Ideas for MAPS 4: https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-4

[Mott]

The SC good or bad, is that OKC rejected streetcars almost 70 years ago and became an auto, suburban, white flight city. It’s going to be difficult to now add mass transit, or commuter rail into that sprawl. With no continuity, creating something new is going to have some mistakes. Seperate the Bricktown loop from the Downtown loop. It would be neat to have the Streetcars passing each other between the Devon building and the Park. A missed opportunity. And much more efficient on the weekends.

[jccouger]

Streetcar ridership got cut in half last month once they started collecting fares.

http://www.news9.com/story/40139934/...50-in-february

I want the streetcar to be a success, but we might be years or a decade away from the time before we can say whether is was a success or not.

Seems like most of the public sentiment is negative right now. Asking for any kind if extention on the next maps vote would be a death nail.