MAPS 4 Stadium

[scottk]

Yes I was and voted in favor. That is not the same thing as building a 100 mil stadium for minor league soccer. Not even in the same universe. If they needed a new arena for the Thunder I would be first in line to vote for it. If there was an NFL team coming here I would also vote in favor of a billion dollar+ stadium. Minor league soccer just doesn't move the needle for me.

Agreed!

CHK Arena is not only is used 40+ dates out of the year for capacity crowds for a NBA team, but also is OKC's venue for large concerts and events on a weekly basis. Given the footprint of the arena, and its ability to be used 365 days a year for various purposes, it has served the city well in multiple functions.

Another outdoor stadium for one specific sport when there are other stadiums that can fulfill the needs just seems wasteful. It's embarrassing the amount of money spent to build/renovate/upkeep outdoor stadiums that are used a handful of times a year for the sport intended. Think of the number of high school stadiums that have recently been built. Most of the time they sit empty or serve as a practice field other than five nights out of the fall. Yet, millions are poured into the structure.

[d-usa]

How many outdoor stadiums does the city own?

[OKrunner]

By my count the city of OKC only owns one outdoor stadium and that is the Ballpark.

[Laramie]

How many outdoor stadiums does the city own?

Only can think of one city owned outdoor facility, Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark which is baseball specific.

OKCPS does have Taft & C.B. Speegle outdoor stadiums, neither venue meets USSF regulation requirements for USL or MLS soccer.

Don't know how serious the United Soccer League is but OKC could be forced to sell & relocate its USL franchise. In 2015, USL officials have given all USL franchises 5 years (2020) to submit plans to build a soccer specific stadium. Energy FC & Tulsa Roughnecks FC will be affected by this ruling.

USL: League announces intention to house all 24 teams in soccer-specific stadiums by 2020: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/...-stadiums-2020

[OKC Guy]

Only can think of one city owned outdoor facility, Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark which is baseball specific.

OKCPS does have Taft & C.B. Speegle outdoor stadiums, neither venue meets USSF regulation requirements for USL or MLS soccer.

Don't know how serious the United Soccer League is but OKC could be forced to sell & relocate its USL franchise. In 2015, USL officials have given all USL franchises 5 years (2020) to submit plans to build a soccer specific stadium. Energy FC & Tulsa Roughnecks FC will be affected by this ruling.

USL: League announces intention to house all 24 teams in soccer-specific stadiums by 2020: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/...-stadiums-2020

What about Zoo Amp? Scizzortail will have one too? And what about all the school football stadiums those are OKC right or how does that work?

[Laramie]

What about Zoo Amp? Scizzortail will have one too? And what about all the school football stadiums those are OKC right or how does that work?

Took this to mean that d-usa was referring to City of Oklahoma City owed outdoor sports stadiums related to sports since the topic is 'MAPS 4 Stadium.'

[Laramie]

Salute the City of Oklahoma City to use some surplus funds ($25 million IIFC) to save historic Taft Stadium.

Construction of a USSF regulation stadium on the riverfront (not a cheap pop-up venue) will put Oklahoma City in a position to sustain a USL franchise long-term and attract an Major League Soccer franchise (expansion or relocation) . MLS more likely won't occur until 2025-2030.


If the above design is approved by voters and clear the design & review committee it could be used and expanded to meet MLS minimum 18,500 seat requirements.

Rio Grande Valley spent $30 million on their HEB soccer stadium opened in 2017 (see image below):

Nothing fancy with no aspirations to move to MLS; just a simple two grand stand style soccer specific stadium.

[scottk]

UCO's Stadium at one time was considered to be upgradable to MLS. It would make even more sense now since the three Edmond High School's have left and leaving just UCO as the tenant. Probably would not cost 90 million to get the stadium up to needed standards.

https://newsok.com/article/2876459/w...rly-12-million

https://newsok.com/article/1913659/b...-intrigues-mls

[DallasOkie086]

What are the rumblings of OKC getting an AAF team? From my understanding OKC is already on the short list -- and it seems like a perfect fit. I think just assuming this is for the FC Energy is a little short sided. I think this goes through and gets build just on the premise of an AAF team alone. "OKC Thunderbirds" sounds fun.

[jedicurt]

What are the rumblings of OKC getting an AAF team? From my understanding OKC is already on the short list -- and it seems like a perfect fit. I think just assuming this is for the FC Energy is a little short sided. I think this goes through and gets build just on the premise of an AAF team alone. "OKC Thunderbirds" sounds fun.

there are no known plans at this time for AAF expansion, and we are not getting an XFL team to start... but we will have a FFL team

https://www.freedomfootball.co/teams/

whenever that league starts up (rumor now is March 2020), if it ever does

[Laramie]

there are no known plans at this time for AAF expansion, and we are not getting an XFL team to start... but we will have a FFL team

https://www.freedomfootball.co/teams/

whenever that league starts up (rumor now is March 2020), if it ever does

FFL being a summer league could open up the possibility of the team playing temporarily at 7,500 seat Taft, 10,000 seat The Brick, 10,000 Wantland Stadium or use of some lower bowl sections at Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium if the interest runs high. TV will play a big role; no TV will doom the FFL to a one year experience.

Remember the USFL wanted the Outlaws in a larger market than Tulsa; therefore their eyes were on Norman. Oklahoma City never had plans for an American football specific stadium, just talk.

OU officials didn't want the USFL testing the strength of the OKC market; they didn't want to get stuck with the possibility of the NFL grazing the Oklahoma City market with a city in a football crazed state that would have instant rivals like Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Kansas City & Denver. OU didn't want to share its then 75,000 seat stadium with an NFL or USFL franchise.

We have the NBA; wonder what it would have been like if OKC the size of Jacksonville, FL had an NFL franchise vs. an NBA franchise.

There were talks in February 1967 (Oklahoman) by the All Sports Association to build a 100,000 seat Stadium at the OKC Fairgrounds.

[jedicurt]

FFL being a summer league could open up the possibility of the team playing temporarily at 7,500 seat Taft, 10,000 seat The Brick, 10,000 Wantland Stadium or use of some lower bowl sections at Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium if the interest runs high. TV will play a big role; no TV will doom the FFL to a one year experience.

Remember the USFL wanted the Outlaws in a larger market than Tulsa; therefore their eyes were on Norman. Oklahoma City never had plans for an American football specific stadium, just talk.

OU officials didn't want the USFL testing the strength of the OKC market; they didn't want to get stuck with the possibility of the NFL grazing the Oklahoma City market with a city in a football crazed state that would have instant rivals like Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Kansas City & Denver. OU didn't want to share its then 75,000 seat stadium with an NFL or USFL franchise.

We have the NBA; wonder what it would have been like if OKC the size of Jacksonville, FL had an NFL franchise vs. an NBA franchise.

There were talks in February 1967 (Oklahoman) by the All Sports Association to build a 100,000 seat Stadium at the OKC Fairgrounds.

yep... February 1967, is back when were getting the Continental Football League and had the Oklahoma City Plainsmen. It was trying to do what the AFL had just done, and almost even got OJ Simpson to play in it instead of the NFL... but 4 years of no TV deal, and goes to the NFL to be seen, and the league folds... but they were honestly trying to build big and force a merger. the reason they AFL did and the COFL could not was TV... also remember that AFL was the first football in which every game was in color on tv

[bombermwc]

UCO's Stadium at one time was considered to be upgradable to MLS. It would make even more sense now since the three Edmond High School's have left and leaving just UCO as the tenant. Probably would not cost 90 million to get the stadium up to needed standards.

https://newsok.com/article/2876459/w...rly-12-million

https://newsok.com/article/1913659/b...-intrigues-mls

One problem there is the location. Much like with Chisolm, when you put it on one end of the metro, you are effectively saying the other end of the metro isn't being considered important for travel. In rush hour, that can be a 1 hr drive from normal on bad days. Forget about newcastle or blanchard folk. If you're downtown, you're central to all parts of the metro.

Not to mention, you see it as UCO is freed up now and could attract someone. I bet UCO sees it as "we just got free, why would we ask someone to come in". And any semi-pro or pro team is going to want things done and that puts pressure on UCO. And any kind of partnership becomes very complicated. When the team leaves the stadium, UCO is left holding the bill to maintain whatever "it" is. If it's built up to support MLS, UCO can't handle it.

[G.Walker]

How about a new state of the art Performing Arts Center?

[Laramie]

One problem there is the location. Much like with Chisolm, when you put it on one end of the metro, you are effectively saying the other end of the metro isn't being considered important for travel. In rush hour, that can be a 1 hr drive from normal on bad days. Forget about newcastle or blanchard folk. If you're downtown, you're central to all parts of the metro.

Not to mention, you see it as UCO is freed up now and could attract someone. I bet UCO sees it as "we just got free, why would we ask someone to come in". And any semi-pro or pro team is going to want things done and that puts pressure on UCO. And any kind of partnership becomes very complicated. When the team leaves the stadium, UCO is left holding the bill to maintain whatever "it" is. If it's built up to support MLS, UCO can't handle it.

UCO was also in pursuit of NCAA Division II status, at that time they were NAIA. Their stadium upgrade to 25,000 seats would have been a prelude to their goal to eventually reach Division I status goal in 2020. UCO has approximately 14,337 undergrad students enrolled, 3x larger than the smallest NCAA Division I University of Tulsa at 4, 433.

[OKCRT]

OKC should try to lure Jax nfl team and build a nice state of the art football stadium for about 1.5-2 billions and have Amazon pay for 70% of it and put their name on it. Seems like Amazon is taking over the world so they should be up for this.

[Chefdavies]

I know this won't be a popular response, and I have green colored glasses on. As a rabid soccer supporter I think this is a great idea. But not because of the stadium its self. I focused more on all the other playing fields. I pictured kids, and even grown ups playing on those fields. Yes, the stadium would need to be moved north/south. As I've already reached out to Mayor Holt with my opinion, I think this would pay for itself 10 fold. Just my opinion and usually its wrong.

[mattyiceokc]

One of the local news channels. And yes they are all reasonable people in when I told them, Hey you know that's just for the stadium, they said oh, Well not sure I'd vote on just a stadium.

Which I tend to think would be the majority of people. A stadium alone for a minor league team that might not even be here in 5 years due to who run/operates it, or even a slim chance at a MLS franchise just isn't worth it IMO. I know soccer is gaining traction, but realistically it's still far from even something like hockey, which isn't wildly popular here like football or basketball. (not saying it's not popular, just not same level) I know some point to the AAA baseball we've had here, to which I'd say the only reason it survives, is because MLB doesn't care if it makes money. It's a development league. So even if no one showed up, they'd still most likely continue to stay here. Maybe not quite that extreme, but the bar is much much lower. And at the end of the day I know we like options, but do we have the population to support so many options? I tend to think not yet. So at the end of the day my priority is keeping the Thunder, and if that means sacrificing things like not building a soccer stadium and losing the Energy, so be it.

This kind of thinking right here cracks me up. I don't think you understand just how much soccer has grown and where it's going to end up in terms of growth. If OKC loses the Energy because we didn't pay for a stadium now, we'll regret it 20+ years down the road. I know some of your here think soccer is just a game that kids play, or that it'll never be taken seriously in the US, but with each new generation, the game will just keep growing.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/224864/...ort-watch.aspx

Take a look at the 18-34 year old range. Football, as a favorite sport, is down 10 percent from the age bracket above it, and soccer is now tied with basketball as the second favorite sport for 18-34 year old Americans.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-still-growing

The percentage of 16-35 year old Americans that are "interested or very interested" is over 50 percent.

So your thinking of hockey being higher on the sports totem pole is laughable. Hockey isn't even in the conversation. Baseball is dying. Football has a concussion issue. More and more parents are keeping their kids from playing football. More and more kids are choosing to play other sports as they see the dangers of football. I just read an article the other day about how football leagues (professional and youth) are struggling to find insurance companies to cover their leagues. Youth football as we know it is on it's way out. Before we know it, kids won't even play tackle football until high school, if that. And of course, baseball is dying a slow death. In the next 20-30 years, I guarantee that basketball and soccer will be the 2 major sports in the US. Building a strong team here in OKC now is absolutely important to the state of professional sports here in this city.

Soccer doesn't work like minor league baseball. The USL is not just a developmental league for professional teams. Most of the teams in the USL are completely independent from a MLS club. The USL doesnt answer to the MLS and sometimes actually competes for the same players. In fact, the Energy signed a French player this offseason who has playing experience in the top French league. He chose OKC over Orlando City of the MLS.

/end rant

[Laramie]

Mayor Holt could have gone with a 'cheap & inexpensive' stadium, more of the pop-up variety or something moderate like Rio Grand Valley's $30 million simple twin grand stands in the above post #132.

Currently being expanded by 3,200 seats, capacity will be 25,000.

Portland Providence Park Stadium

We've discussed quality projects on this forum; quality doesn't come cheap. This design reminds me of Portland's Providence Park Stadium--older multipurpose that was renovated to make MLS ready at the sacrifice of AAA baseball.

This stadium design will allow for expansion. How many current MLS cities have downtown riverfront SS stadiums...

[Laramie]

.

Under plans submitted to Oklahoma City mayor David Holt on Thursday, USL Championship‘s OKC Energy could build a new soccer-specific stadium in the city’s downtown area. The facility would cost an estimated $65 to $80 million for construction–plus an additional $6 to $12 million for land acquisition–and be built with an initial seating capacity of 10,000. It would be designed to have the ability to host events such as concerts, rugby, lacrosse, and football in addition to professional soccer. Furthermore, the facility could be expanded as part of a potential second phase to accommodate an MLS club.

Soccer Stadium Digest (powered by Populous) reports on OKC soccer stadium: https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019...plan-unveiled/

[Laramie]

Question for Pete or anyone who can answer: Has the Producers Coop Mill site gone down on its price per acre; seeing $6-$12 for stadium land acquisition cost.

As Pete mentioned; this would have been a great site acquisition for the new convention center.

[soonerguru]

Minor League, baby! Not transformative. At all.

[SuburbanNation]

Mayor Holt could have gone with a 'cheap & inexpensive' stadium, more of the pop-up variety or something moderate like Rio Grand Valley's $30 million simple twin grand stands in the above post #132.

Currently being expanded by 3,200 seats, capacity will be 25,000.

Portland Providence Park Stadium

We've discussed quality projects on this forum; quality doesn't come cheap. This design reminds me of Portland's Providence Park Stadium--older multipurpose that was renovated to make MLS ready at the sacrifice of AAA baseball.

This stadium design will allow for expansion. How many current MLS cities have downtown riverfront SS stadiums...

Place a quality “pop up” soccer stadium on the river and let’s prove the current and future success of soccer in OKC. Soccer looks to become very popular in the US. All great US cities have major sport venues which add to the quality of life of its residents and also bring in tax dollars from tourism. Isn’t there land near the river downtown OKC that the city already owns? It wouldn’t make sense to buy additional land when the city already once space that could accommodate a stadium.

[bombermwc]

Pop ups are ok for teams transitioning when they know where they are going isn't permanent. But if you're doing a proof of concept, then you really need to make use of an existing facility. People don't attend pop up facilities as well as a real facility partly because part of the draw is the experience of the facility. Time wasn't on our side between leaving Taft and having downtown ready. So we're a bit stuck at the moment. But i would caution anyone that wants to test a pop up as a determining factor in if we could support MLS. And to be truthful, im not sure that we are ready to support MLS yet. Our britches aren't quite big enough to adequately fund multiple pro teams....IMO.

[Jersey Boss]

This kind of thinking right here cracks me up. I don't think you understand just how much soccer has grown and where it's going to end up in terms of growth. If OKC loses the Energy because we didn't pay for a stadium now, we'll regret it 20+ years down the road. I know some of your here think soccer is just a game that kids play, or that it'll never be taken seriously in the US, but with each new generation, the game will just keep growing.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/224864/...ort-watch.aspx

Take a look at the 18-34 year old range. Football, as a favorite sport, is down 10 percent from the age bracket above it, and soccer is now tied with basketball as the second favorite sport for 18-34 year old Americans.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-still-growing

The percentage of 16-35 year old Americans that are "interested or very interested" is over 50 percent.

So your thinking of hockey being higher on the sports totem pole is laughable. Hockey isn't even in the conversation. Baseball is dying. Football has a concussion issue. More and more parents are keeping their kids from playing football. More and more kids are choosing to play other sports as they see the dangers of football. I just read an article the other day about how football leagues (professional and youth) are struggling to find insurance companies to cover their leagues. Youth football as we know it is on it's way out. Before we know it, kids won't even play tackle football until high school, if that. And of course, baseball is dying a slow death. In the next 20-30 years, I guarantee that basketball and soccer will be the 2 major sports in the US. Building a strong team here in OKC now is absolutely important to the state of professional sports here in this city.

Soccer doesn't work like minor league baseball. The USL is not just a developmental league for professional teams. Most of the teams in the USL are completely independent from a MLS club. The USL doesnt answer to the MLS and sometimes actually competes for the same players. In fact, the Energy signed a French player this offseason who has playing experience in the top French league. He chose OKC over Orlando City of the MLS.

/end rant

That stat you quoted from Bloomberg about 18-34 year olds is not Americans but from 18 world areas. The chart that is contained in the article listing interest in various countries does not even list USA. I have been hearing how soccer is the next big thing since the 1970's when Pele signed with the NY Cosmos. That's 40 years ago and that same story is still being pedaled.