Streetcar

[Uptowner]

Oh and so business diners don’t have to get their car out for lunch. Big win.

[BBatesokc]

i know i’m late to the party. And i don’t want to add salt to the wounds...but why are we calling this a transit system? How many people actually live within a few blocks of the route? How many people actually commute on it. To me it blatantly serves the tourist and entertainment tax dollar. It seemed like the so called “heavy players” got the route right through their business districts with little to no consideration for the people who could actually use it to reduce car traffic and surface parking. It just feels like the monorail at disneyland...next stop, retail bar and restaurant land!!

this. Exactly.

[BBatesokc]

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

There were a couple of homeless people riding

How do you know there were homeless, were they the wearing the EMBARK approved HOMELESS PERSON badges?

Apparently the PC police on this forum won't allow me to address this the way I wanted to (but others are allowed to take a condescending tone all they want - yeah, talking about you). Are you really so naive you don't think a person can identify a homeless person without a "EMBARK approved HOMELESS PERSON badge"?

[pw405]

Finally made it out to ride for the first time last night. Took the first train at the stop on the south side of the ballpark. Had great timing - only had to wait about two minutes, tops. I think there were some homeless people riding next to us (I didn't ask for proof of residency), they were nice and we had pleasant small talk discussing the nearby sights and upcoming developments.

Took the business loop around to AA, grabbed some dinner at Yuzo, and then planned to take it back. We arrived at the stop about 9:40. The display says 15 minutes until arrival. Even though is was 28°, wind was low so we figure we can tough it out and wait.

A few minutes go by, still says 15 minutes. It seemed to skip a few minutes and land on 11 minutes to arrival, where it seemed to stay for another 2-3 minutes. Then, a random, well dressed couple pulls up in a Denali and offers us a ride. Fearing an American Psycho or Eyes Wide Shut style ending to the evening, we politely refuse a few times and they finally go on their way.

Finally, the sign says 4 minutes until arrival. I run in to an old friend from college, we catch up a bit. News 9 came out and filmed a reporter a block south of the stop. Still 4 minutes until arrival. We give it another 5 minutes. Still stuck at 4 minutes. I'd estimate it was stuck on 4 minutes for a total duration of 15 minutes. Finally give up and call an Uber to get us back to the car.

Anybody know what caused the delay?

[Urban Pioneer]

I know I’m late to the party. And I don’t want to add salt to the wounds...but why are we calling this a TRANSIT system? How many people actually live within a few blocks of the route? How many people actually commute on it. To me it blatantly serves the tourist and entertainment tax dollar. It seemed like the so called “heavy players” got the route right through their business districts with little to no consideration for the people who could actually use it to reduce car traffic and surface parking. It just feels like the monorail at Disneyland...next stop, retail bar and restaurant land!!

As been pointed out many times before, this ultimately will be a the connection for people commuting without cars on a commuter rail transit system. In addition, I think you grossly misrepresent the number of people choosing to actually live downtown. That number is constantly increasing.

[Urban Pioneer]

https://journalrecord.com/2019/01/24...uns-off-track/

An editorial about this current issue.

[OKC Guy]

As been pointed out many times before, this ultimately will be a the connection for people commuting without cars on a commuter rail transit system. In addition, I think you grossly misrepresent the number of people choosing to actually live downtown. That number is constantly increasing.

First off I think they should release the $450k for the lights priority system and be done with it. Thats now all political it seems.

Overall, I am not sold on the system as constructed. I try to look at the long term picture too. Lets explore from my view:

1. Assuming we have a rail system taking people from Edmond to downtown. A person drives from house to a central parking lot in Edmond. Parks car and goes to train station to wait for train. If efficient they can time it daily.

2. Person gets in trian and takes downtown to work. They get off at central rail station.

3. Person moves from rail station to SC platform.

4. They wait for SC due to timing issues it may be 10-20 minutes.

5. After possible wait get on SC but they work on other side of downtown so have to go through rush hour like cars do.

6. After long ride and many stops they get to work stop and walk to building.

I can not imagine all these systems working in unison. It will take over an hour to get to work (car to train to SC to walk). So this dream of a massive amount of people using SC for commuting to work from an intermodal system is a pipe dream imo. And to make trains that can cover all 4 directions would be a massive cost and then needing a massive downtown hub to stop and drop. And if you work in medical district it still won’t get you to work. The SC has a limited scope in being an efficient people mover.

SC will be awesome for conventions and tourism, and I think thats the best approach. We could have had 4 times the amount of micro buses to move people within downtown for much cheaper. I also think had they made SC a tic tac toe design then it would be faster (go back and forth on one rail no directional changes so no turning needed). The only way a circular system would be efficient is if up in air above roads.

Right now its a great entertainment system and once OMNI and convention open up they will be a great target audience for it. Its never going to be an efficient people mover for out of downtown workers. The cost to try and connect the two woild be enormous. We can get rail downtown but I see buses or even Uber as faster way to get them moved once there due to this being a circular and not tic tac toe. After driving to lot, parking, getting on train, getting off train, going to SC stop, waiting for SC, getting on SC, taking 10-20 minutes to get to stop and then walking to work place - people are not gonna do that en mass. And we are talking major cost.

In the short term the city needs go fund the light problem at least make the experience better timing wise.

Forgot to mention, one thing a tic tac toe design does is eliminate having to keep all cars in perfect sync since all are on their own line. No stopping to reset distances between cars. And with not turns they can move faster on their line.

I do appreciate what you have done and all your years of unpaid work. My comments are not directed at you but just me lookimg at overall system and future rail plans and hkw they might tie in (or not). If we go full speed ahead it will take massive money and means most all other wants/needs are underfunded or not funded. We are a good sized metro but not big enough to support the costs we’ll need to spend for all of the systems on our wish list.

Anyways, we need to allow opposing points of view else bigger divisions will be created.

[catch22]

Transit isn’t ideal for everybody and never will be. However OKC is poised to continue its growth and be the leader of the state. Even though transit doesn’t work for everybody, the city has to have a transportation network that works for everybody. That includes roads and highways, sidewalks and bicycles, and buses and rail.

My experience living in bigger cities is that an hour is a reasonable commute time. It’s just part of life. Even though everyone brings up Edmond, I think Moore and Norman commuters will have the greatest improvement in commute times with a rail system. I used to live on 119th and Western and worked at 10th and Broadway. 45 minutes was average for me at rush hour. If you live in Norman you are already encroaching on an hour. That is with today’s population. There’s also no plans to widen I-35 on the horizon so for at least the next 10 years we will be adding commuters and not adding any capacity. The commute to the south side is only going to worsen. When the highway takes 90 minutes and the train takes 55 minutes, you will see the value in it.

Might not work for you, might not shave off much time from Edmond. But it will allow the city to offer options for people, and will significantly improve commute times to several areas of the city.

While my post concerns commuter rail, the streetcar plays a huge role in the viability of such commuter lines which will be necessary for the city’s future and growth potential.

[CloudDeckMedia]

The quarterly OKC architectural tour is underway this morning, using the streetcar. I’ve seen several posts showing people enjoying the ride. It may not be a utilitarian use of the streetcar, but it continues to gain supporters.

[OKC Guy]

Transit isn’t ideal for everybody and never will be. However OKC is poised to continue its growth and be the leader of the state. Even though transit doesn’t work for everybody, the city has to have a transportation network that works for everybody. That includes roads and highways, sidewalks and bicycles, and buses and rail.

My experience living in bigger cities is that an hour is a reasonable commute time. It’s just part of life. Even though everyone brings up Edmond, I think Moore and Norman commuters will have the greatest improvement in commute times with a rail system. I used to live on 119th and Western and worked at 10th and Broadway. 45 minutes was average for me at rush hour. If you live in Norman you are already encroaching on an hour. That is with today’s population. There’s also no plans to widen I-35 on the horizon so for at least the next 10 years we will be adding commuters and not adding any capacity. The commute to the south side is only going to worsen. When the highway takes 90 minutes and the train takes 55 minutes, you will see the value in it.

Might not work for you, might not shave off much time from Edmond. But it will allow the city to offer options for people, and will significantly improve commute times to several areas of the city.

While my post concerns commuter rail, the streetcar plays a huge role in the viability of such commuter lines which will be necessary for the city’s future and growth potential.

I get a lot of what you say. But the expense will be so large due to how spread out our metro is compared to some other metro areas. It will take a massive influx of dollars to serve all directions. And the size of our metro won’t support the costs at this time.

I look at rail seperatelt from SC. SC is not a mass people mover imo. Its nice for tourism and bar/food hopping and weekends. Its never gonna be an efficient people mover.

Some want it expanded already. Some want light rail. In addition we have many other wants and needs coming up too. Peake will need a major outlay in the next 10-20 years, and a new arena at some point towards the later. SC will need money just to maintain and replace cars in future. Not to mention all the other outlays and wants.

Where is all this money going to come from?

As for the drive times you are factoring in the outer areas where most live in houses or apartments. If there is a rail hub then people will have to use time to get in car drive to hub, go to a large secured parking lot and then get to terminal (will need to walk or have shuttles to get from parkikg to terminal). That alone takes time maybe 15-20 mintutes from home to terminal after drive/park. Once at terminal a wait for rail, then boarding and finally moving. Once at destination terminal they are still not at work. Have depart and walk to SC stop and wait for it. Then another 15-20 minutes to get to closest stop. Then maybe walk or scooter or Uber to work? The total time is pretty big if all added up. If we have micro busses at rail terminal then can shave off time as we can have more of them making faster trips to work areas. This is why I say SC is not ideal as part of intermodal planning. Rail and SC to me are seperate.

I am not against rail I find it hard to see how we will pay for it without doubling our tax base. We will need massive use to get some money back but it will not be a momey maker it will be a money taker based on our metro population.

Also on light rail we’ll need some money to find space for hubs and places to securely park cars all day long. Land costs, building costs plus security of lot will be important. A lot of costs just for hubs. Then rail cars and line costs. I don’t see the ability to find enough money.

As is we are behind on roads. Its taking over 10 years to do 235/44. 40/44 will nedd to be done and how many years? To then get rail in all directions it will be a massive cost and decades of getting it in all 4 directions.

[TheTravellers]

Idiots. Here's a list of the members of the board. The only email address I know is Mike Dover's (MikeDoverForOKC@cox.net) because he's running for City Council. If he voted against the proposal and you're in Ward 2, please vote for someone other than him for City Council (he's in my ward, so I'll be contacting him to find out how he voted).

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-...advisory-board

Mike Dover voted no on the full signal prioritization, so if you live in Ward 2, his decision might affect who you vote for in Feb (I was waffling between him and James Cooper, now Cooper has my vote).

[catch22]

I get a lot of what you say. But the expense will be so large due to how spread out our metro is compared to some other metro areas. It will take a massive influx of dollars to serve all directions. And the size of our metro won’t support the costs at this time.

I look at rail seperatelt from SC. SC is not a mass people mover imo. Its nice for tourism and bar/food hopping and weekends. Its never gonna be an efficient people mover.

Some want it expanded already. Some want light rail. In addition we have many other wants and needs coming up too. Peake will need a major outlay in the next 10-20 years, and a new arena at some point towards the later. SC will need money just to maintain and replace cars in future. Not to mention all the other outlays and wants.

Where is all this money going to come from?

As for the drive times you are factoring in the outer areas where most live in houses or apartments. If there is a rail hub then people will have to use time to get in car drive to hub, go to a large secured parking lot and then get to terminal (will need to walk or have shuttles to get from parkikg to terminal). That alone takes time maybe 15-20 mintutes from home to terminal after drive/park. Once at terminal a wait for rail, then boarding and finally moving. Once at destination terminal they are still not at work. Have depart and walk to SC stop and wait for it. Then another 15-20 minutes to get to closest stop. Then maybe walk or scooter or Uber to work? The total time is pretty big if all added up. If we have micro busses at rail terminal then can shave off time as we can have more of them making faster trips to work areas. This is why I say SC is not ideal as part of intermodal planning. Rail and SC to me are seperate.

I am not against rail I find it hard to see how we will pay for it without doubling our tax base. We will need massive use to get some money back but it will not be a momey maker it will be a money taker based on our metro population.

Also on light rail we’ll need some money to find space for hubs and places to securely park cars all day long. Land costs, building costs plus security of lot will be important. A lot of costs just for hubs. Then rail cars and line costs. I don’t see the ability to find enough money.

As is we are behind on roads. Its taking over 10 years to do 235/44. 40/44 will nedd to be done and how many years? To then get rail in all directions it will be a massive cost and decades of getting it in all 4 directions.

Commuter rail to Edmond, Moore, and norman is a relatively easy apple to pick as passenger trains can share the track with BNSF freight trains. In fact, BNSF could even operate the trains. This happens in many commuter corridors. It would be similar to running the Heartland Flyer at peak times between Norman and Edmond.

While you see the Streetcar as a separate issue, it’s only one small piece of a larger system that includes roads, buses, bikes, and trains.

[OKC Guy]

Commuter rail to Edmond, Moore, and norman is a relatively easy apple to pick as passenger trains can share the track with BNSF freight trains. In fact, BNSF could even operate the trains. This happens in many commuter corridors. It would be similar to running the Heartland Flyer at peak times between Norman and Edmond.

While you see the Streetcar as a separate issue, it’s only one small piece of a larger system that includes roads, buses, bikes, and trains.

I understand we can piggyback but they run a lot of trains on that track. They will have priority. In the mornings there is always trains coming north to south so that will mess up any useful rush hour benefits.

And imo we are still a commuter city based on roads due to how spread out we are. Unless we add some more mega business/buildings in downtown there will not be enough demand for the costs, if you can get commuters to change habits. The time thing won’t be helpful I laid out how much time it will take. An example is someone who works in the massive medical complexes east of 235, no SC or train will help them get to work. A micro bus system would have.

Back on topic I do think they need to fix the lights for SC. I think it may cause other problems with backimg up traffic based on just missing light and having to start over again. But to make our $130m investment have a chance they need to fix the lights.

I will not support any expansion of SC until we have at least a few years to see how the current system works. Too bad we could not have afforded having it raised up on pillars to not comingle with traffic, bikes and pedestrians then it would be much more timely imo. Plus we could have still used micro buses to move people faster on surrounding streets or areas from SC stop checkpoints.

[Mott]

Commuter rail to Edmond, Moore, and norman is a relatively easy apple to pick as passenger trains can share the track with BNSF freight trains. In fact, BNSF could even operate the trains. This happens in many commuter corridors. It would be similar to running the Heartland Flyer at peak times between Norman and Edmond.

While you see the Streetcar as a separate issue, it’s only one small piece of a larger system that includes roads, buses, bikes, and trains.

I think people should understand that it will not be easy or inexpensive to run commuter trains on the BNSF. I think this as I spent 38 years working for the ATSF in train service, here in OKC. They really don’t have a scheduled passenger train mentality, or experience any more. Plus the bottle necks on the three single track bridges to Edmond. Just getting a 10 car local to Ralston and back was sometimes a struggle. Not against comutter at all, it will be one hell of an effort.

[Uptowner]

As been pointed out many times before, this ultimately will be a the connection for people commuting without cars on a commuter rail transit system. In addition, I think you grossly misrepresent the number of people choosing to actually live downtown. That number is constantly increasing.

I spend loads of time downtown. My friends live in brownstones. A colleague lives at edge. When you say downtown do you mean the CBD? Cause other than the boutiques in a few old high rises. I’m just not seeing it. You can’t look at the loop as it sits today and say that it’s there to serve residents. I know way, way, WAY to many people who live in the 10 blocks north of 23rd, the gate wood/10 penn who could stand to use this for commuting and connecting to local communities. It’s painfully obvious that it tours AA Bricktown and midtown commercial properties. I guess my biggest point is: if you have to drive your car to hook up with it? What IS the point?

[Uptowner]

Unless you admit that it’s a tourist attraction and not transit.

[KayneMo]

The definition of transit is the movement of people from one place to another. The streetcar is transit.

I haven't posted in this thread since the opening of the streetcar, but I've ridden it around 20 times. I live nearest to the North Hudson stop, and I frequent downtown and Bricktown even more now, now that I don't have to worry about finding parking and having to rely on an automobile. The streetcar is awesome.

[dankrutka]

Instead of a binary framing of the streetcar as either tourist or transit, maybe consider it on a spectrum of more tourist to more transit. Right now, the streetcar may lean more towards tourist, but that makes sense since it is brand new option and there has been no time for the city to grow around it. Hopefully, there will be large residence/convention/business increases near stops, building of commuter rail and streetcar expansion, and the changing of lifestyles for some... and these changes can move the streetcar towards more transit purposes. To the latter for example, when people move to OKC now they can now make a conscious decision to live near a streetcar stop and use it to get to work or around the area.

Anyway, I'm just saying that as there is continued densification, car-less transportation infrastructure, and perception shifts, the streetcar purposes may shift.

[BG918]

It just feels like the monorail at Disneyland...next stop, retail bar and restaurant land!!

[Bits_Of_Real_Panther]

So will we be able to see statistics for ridership once the "free trips" disappears? I mean, are ridership stats being collected currently? My gut says it will drop once the gratis period ends.

[pw405]

Even though the first experience with the streetcar may not have been ideal, I'm still supportive of the efforts and I can't wait until the next time a full-on level 11 night of drinking is planned in the core. The decision of "should we go to midtown/bricktown/AA/Deep Deuce" is less critical now that one can simply hop on the street car and go to all areas. Very much looking forward to it!

My friend from college that I ran in to lives a few blocks from one of the stops and works in the CBD. He says he absolutely loves it he takes it to/from work work and then all over at night/weekends to visit various breweries and restaurants.

[Anonymous.]

Not sure what happened Friday night, but myself and a group of people were waiting @ a stop for almost 30 minutes and a streetcar never came. It was around 10pm and I checked social media for service interruptions and saw nothing.

Anyways it wasn't a good look for 8 out of 10 people in my group who it would have been their first ride on it. We ended up ordering Ubers that literally picked us up @ the platform.

The on-screen arrival time said 3 minutes the entire 30 minutes we stood there in the cold.

[CloudDeckMedia]

Perhaps the estimated arrival times should be suspended. Better to have no information than information that is almost always unreliable.

[shawnw]

My understanding is the website is more accurate than the boards in general. Recommend checking there when in doubt about the boards.

http://okcstreetcar.com/ride-guide/real-time/

[BBatesokc]

My understanding is the website is more accurate than the boards in general. Recommend checking there when in doubt about the boards.

http://okcstreetcar.com/ride-guide/real-time/

I'm not sure why - but I agree, the times we've utilized the website, the arrival times were very accurate.