State Fairgrounds

[bombermwc]

They do promote it....to ag shows, but that's it. That's part of the problem.

[Pete]

2nd photo is of the needle sections being stored in a yard on the east side of May.

[d-usa]

Maybe Frontier City will get a new ride...

[Pete]

According to a report in today's Oklahoman, the state fair board plans to include a new 'coliseum' in MAPS 4.

Would be pretty much as we previously reported.

[d-usa]

It would factor as a “no” consideration in my vote, and I’ll see what else is included in MAPS 4 to decide on how I would vote.

But without financial transparency I see no reason to provide outside funding into what should be a self-sustaining entity.

[Pete]

This was approved by city council yesterday.

[onthestrip]

I sense that they want to get out in front of any soccer-stadium-in-maps push. Its does seem like the fair arena gets much more use and is more of a necessity than a soccer field at this point though.

[shawnw]

I would care more about fairgrounds projects like this if it were clear and obvious that the organization itself cared more about the grounds at large and in general, and not just when they needed to go to the citizens for taxpayer money for big time projects. I get why it's important for our fairgrounds to stay competitive, but they need to understand that outside of these big projects, THEY are not doing enough to stay competitive, and it shows.

[Pete]

The timing of this ask is not good considering the PR nightmare they have endured around the space needle and all the previous demolitions.

[shawnw]

exactly. show us you give a darned about the master planning of the grounds and probably there is no issue here.

[Laramie]

Just don't believe the State Fair Board has all this hidden money that many of us would like to think because they aren't transparent. Obviously, we know the impact of the horse industry:

State Fair Park is a significant driver of tourism dollars and the arena is central to continuing success of the shows that lend Oklahoma City the nickname "Horse Show Capital of the World."

State Fair Park accounted for an annual average of $326.8 million in direct spending from 2016 to 2018, according to an economic impact report, O'Toole said.

That amounts to about 60 percent of the overall impact attributable to State Fair Park, the Cox Convention Center, Chesapeake Energy Arena and Bricktown ballpark, he said.

The latest cost estimate for the new coliseum is $96.6 million, O'Toole said.

It will compete for MAPS 4 dollars with a broad variety of proposals.

OKC's State Fair Arena has had repairs and renovations that far exceed its original 1960s $2 million construction cost just to keep the place in operational condition despite the conditions of the roof.

There's the potential loss of many of these horse related events and trade shows if we don't build an arena. You could look at the loss of economic impact money (generated from tourists) that will directly affect local hotels, restaurants and retail establishments.

[Pete]

'Economic Impact' figures are always dubious IMO.

You only see them when someone is wanting more money or lobbying in some way.


It also begs the question: If these fairgrounds projects generate so much revenue, why can't they pay for these buildings themselves instead of constantly going to taxpayers with their hand out?

Remember, MAPS 3 just spent a ton on the new Expo Building. Where is all that new revenue going? How about all the new revenue from the MAPS 1 horse barns and arena imrovements? Have also bought them acres of new parking.

[jn1780]

Just don't believe the State Fair Board has all this hidden money that many of us would like to think because they aren't transparent. Obviously, we know the impact of the horse industry:



OKC's State Fair Arena has had repairs and renovations that far exceed its original 1960s $2 million construction cost just to keep the place in operational condition despite the conditions of the roof.

There's the potential loss of many of these horse related events and trade shows if we don't build an arena. You could look at the loss of economic impact money (generated from tourists) that will directly affect local hotels, restaurants and retail establishments.

I guess the city better make the state fair board be more transparent if they want me to vote another MAPS program then. Its a reasonable demand to make. Money may not be hidden, but they could be negligent with it.

[Laramie]

Continue to believe that economic impact figures are dubious; we'll see this in play once our convention center is completed; then many of you will question why we didn't invest in a recommended study that suggested a 735 room convention center hotel comparable to the ones in Fort Worth & Dallas.

Fort Worth downtown Omni 614 rooms/89 luxury apartments. Dallas downtown Omni 1,001 luxurious guest rooms and suites

If OKC wants to compete with the larger cities, get off the CHEAP TRAIN, continue to build name recognition/branding; you have to invest to compete with the best.

You have been given an opportunity to get involved in the process; if you kill MAPS momentum now, our city will fall so far behind Dallas, Fort Worth & Kansas City--you will lose what little competitive edge you've gained since the infusion of MAPS.

[shawnw]

The state fairgrounds is the biggest exploiter of the "cheap train". Just look at the place. There's no reason, with all the money that has gone into it over all the MAPS programs, that it couldn't be nearer to the neighborhood of "world class", but it's just parking lots and a few buildings and the stables. There's very little about the place to have pride in anymore. If you built stables at Belle Isle you'd have almost the same thing. And the organization has it 100% in its power to change this perception. It's one of the few orgs left in the city that doesn't seem to care about its image.

[Laramie]

Agree 100% shawnw, there should be improvements/projects somewhere in the neighborhood of 'world-class' or slightly less. That's the issue that many of us have on this board about the quality of MAPS projects as well as developments where the City offers incentives.

OKC can't compete with the DFW Metroplex; however it won't take a Dixies' style $600 million arena to retain many of the horse related events currently using the 55 year old antiquated patch quilt State Fair Arena.

It's obvious we need a new arena capable of hosting the horse related events we have under contract. Why not budget $100 million (Ideas4MAPS) toward a State Fair Arena replacement, the State Fair Board has some money in its coffers for upkeep-repairs. SMG will eventually be contracted to manage the facility along with the other city-owed facilities under its umbrella.

Just not so dead set on sinking the MAPS momentum over what the State Fair Board Trust may or may not have. Why hasn't this been an issue with the previously funded MAPS initiatives that went to upgrade our State Fair Park?

Thunder are the anchor tenant for The Peake; ice hockey could return to State Fair Park--let's invest and build up some other areas of our city.

[shawnw]

I've always been VERY pro MAPS. I'm simply making the point that if the fair board wants my money they should at least act like it by taking better care of what they already have. A good faith effort would go a long way to convince me that throwing more money at the problem would actually make a difference. And this HAS been an issue for past MAPS. The only other thing I had an issue with over the convention center was the fair event center. Again, previous MAPS money for the fairgrounds has been reflected going forward how? In other parts of the city, MAPS funding on one project has spurred other kinds of growth. I realize private entities can't get in there and do that with the fair grounds, but the fair board hasn't even tried to spring forward on the momentum and the good faith of taxpayer dollars to further beautify the grounds, etc. We've been throwing money at the fairgrounds for decades. Decades. Peripheral improvements should have brought things forward by now, but there's not been a peep to that effect.

[HOT ROD]

I predict the failure of MAPS 4 if any Fairgrounds Arena, building. or anything else is one of the projects. ...

The city better think long and hard about it because unlike the fairgrounds - all other MAPS venues (streetcar, sidewalks, lighting, beautification, and now even the CC) all of them have the WILL of the public. So even if MAPS fails these projects WILL continue/expand since its what the public wants.

The continued neglect and then destruction of the fairgrounds without transparency of money already gifted during ALL of the past MAPS to the Fair has cast them out of favor - particularly when advocates preach about the economic impact of the fairground yet they are always FIRST for the handout and all of sudden have no money to show.

... Think long and hard about including more Pork-Fairgrounds in MAPS - OKC.

[Pete]

The fair arena and soccer stadium seem to be relatively unpopular.

What does that leave? Expansion of the streetcar? The Innovation Link? Facilities and services for the homeless and mentally ill?


There might not be enough sex appeal in MAPS 4 to get passed.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

* New, working, theft proof LED street lights through out the city sounds sexy to me! I know, that is another thread and topic altogether

[stile99]

* New, working, theft proof LED street lights through out the city sounds sexy to me! I know, that is another thread and topic altogether

Actually, it couldn't be more on topic. This would benefit the city as a whole much more than dumping more money into a sinkhole for the benefit of a very few.

As for expansion of the streetcar, that's going to have to happen. Someone thought it was funny to string wire and put in special rails instead of using something more mobile, so if we're going to do something obvious, like include the Omni/Convention Center, it's not just a matter of adding a route, one has to be BUILT.

[rte66man]

* New, working, theft proof LED street lights through out the city sounds sexy to me! I know, that is another thread and topic altogether

+1 +1 +1 about the lights.

[Pete]

The lights should be taken care of through the general fund or the GOLT bonds, including the massive new streets initiative.

We don't need another tax for something the city needs to be doing anyway (which actually pertains to the roads as well).

[warreng88]

Question for the board as I am genuinely curious: if MAPS4 including a new arena at the fairground (say, $50MM), but also $20MM in upgrades to the grounds that didn't include the facilities, rebuilding the arch, other iconic structures, would you vote for it then or would that not be enough? Again, I don't have a dog in the fight, just wanted to know the thoughts of the board.

[shawnw]

That and some sort of public commitment to broadly improve the grounds going forward would do a lot for me. We need to be approaching it holistically and not just as isolated big projects IMO.