Streetcar

[Urban Pioneer]

Also note that the amount of signals not automated has now changed from the 24 intersections to 21.

[TheSteveHunt]

Guy here just told me him and his wife got their stay @ Hampton comped because the car kept waking them up...dunno if this has been mentioned.

[BBatesokc]

Guy here just told me him and his wife got their stay @ Hampton comped because the car kept waking them up...dunno if this has been mentioned.

I wouldn't doubt it. We have someone in the building I office in that is changing their office location to a different one because of the constant noise of the 'bell' of the streetcar as it pulls up to the platform near his window.

[OKC Guy]

OKC Guy- Here is my summary of the last meeting that specifically dealt with this issue that had only traffic engineer present. This was publicly distributed at the following MAPS 3 meetings. There are many other meetings whose minutes are obtainable through okc.gov

Thanks for posting this info. Couple of comments and this is overall comments not directed at you.:

1. The traffic info seems to be focused solely on speeding up SC (which is good on its own) but I don’t see any mention of residual effect other than pedestrian.

2. I am mainly concerned with if they update signals what does this do to car traffic on and within a block of tracks/intersections. If you have 4 cars wanting to turn left and they are about to get green - but the light changes for SC - and after SC goes by if the light starts over (so you are last in line so to speak) so now 5 more cars show up to turn left but the left lane only holds 5 cars - now you have cars in the going straight lane stopped and plugging up lanes. So it becomes deadlocked. And it could move car wait stack backwards to prior light and basically cause major congestion. I am wanting to know where they studied this potential problem. Engineers would need to have spent some time getting recent traffic counts to properly analyze this potential.

So mainly I realize you can fix SC problem by priorty system but did the city traffic engineers even look at these questions? If not asked maybe they didn’t? They might have focused solely on crosswalks? I didn’t read “there will be no considerable imapct to car traffic at or within a block of the street car route sue to adding SC light priority”.

We may fix one problem and create several others. If the car impacts are high and yet the city decides to move forward with SC light priority they would need to educate the public and impacted businesses to make them aware. Worst thing we do is upgrade lights and months down rhe road a few businesses say the light priority is backing up traffic and costing them money. Not saying it will but an actual study would give us facts and alert ahead of potential problems

Thats all I’m saying is we need to make sure we don’t move the problem else we could potentially put someone out of business. That would be extreme case but if true it would hurt ability to get new business to replace them.

I appreciate your replying in a respectful manner and am not trying to create problems either. I would just hope they used good and recent data to see any residual problems a SC light priority would potentially create.

Thanks!

[soonerguru]

Did anyone else catch the heated Twitter exchange between Lackmeyer and Mayor Holt on NYE? Shots fired re the Streetcar delays on NYE post-Thunder game:

Anyone who understands the history of this project should not be surprised by Steve's commentary.

[jn1780]

Why does the streetcar need a loud bell? I mean it's supposed to be a streetcar not a train.

[PaddyShack]

Thanks for posting this info. Couple of comments and this is overall comments not directed at you.:

1. The traffic info seems to be focused solely on speeding up SC (which is good on its own) but I don’t see any mention of residual effect other than pedestrian.

2. I am mainly concerned with if they update signals what does this do to car traffic on and within a block of tracks/intersections. If you have 4 cars wanting to turn left and they are about to get green - but the light changes for SC - and after SC goes by if the light starts over (so you are last in line so to speak) so now 5 more cars show up to turn left but the left lane only holds 5 cars - now you have cars in the going straight lane stopped and plugging up lanes. So it becomes deadlocked. And it could move car wait stack backwards to prior light and basically cause major congestion. I am wanting to know where they studied this potential problem. Engineers would need to have spent some time getting recent traffic counts to properly analyze this potential.

So mainly I realize you can fix SC problem by priorty system but did the city traffic engineers even look at these questions? If not asked maybe they didn’t? They might have focused solely on crosswalks? I didn’t read “there will be no considerable imapct to car traffic at or within a block of the street car route sue to adding SC light priority”.

We may fix one problem and create several others. If the car impacts are high and yet the city decides to move forward with SC light priority they would need to educate the public and impacted businesses to make them aware. Worst thing we do is upgrade lights and months down rhe road a few businesses say the light priority is backing up traffic and costing them money. Not saying it will but an actual study would give us facts and alert ahead of potential problems

Thats all I’m saying is we need to make sure we don’t move the problem else we could potentially put someone out of business. That would be extreme case but if true it would hurt ability to get new business to replace them.

I appreciate your replying in a respectful manner and am not trying to create problems either. I would just hope they used good and recent data to see any residual problems a SC light priority would potentially create.

Thanks!

Honestly I don't see a lot of downtown businesses that need the parking right outside their door. And probably those spaces are already taken up during normal business hours.

I would like to see a study on how people actually get to those businesses.

As far longer lines in traffic, you might have a case. But I just don't see many businesses struggling due to flow of traffic. If anything, I would think slower traffic helps with visibility since motorists are waiting and can look around them.

[Geographer]

Not that I can immediately recall. Fare-free zones yes. Kansas City has done many things right and it is admirable. They get it.

The M-Line streetcar in Dallas is free of charge - but it is operated by a nonprofit organization (MATA) and not the City - however they do receive some operating funds from DART.

[PaddyShack]

Why does the streetcar need a loud bell? I mean it's supposed to be a streetcar not a train.

I do agree that having the streetcar sound a bell at every intersection is a bit much. But I would think the bell is to alert pedestrians of the oncoming streetcar.

However, when I was in Vienna, their streetcars only chime whenever the streetcar is starting to move from standing still and doesn't usually have a bell or horn sound unless a pedestrian or vehicle is in the way.

[shawnw]

In November I stayed in downtown Houston and my hotel was on the intersection of two of their downtown rail routes and I heard the chime every few minutes through the night. While annoying at first, it didn't take long to forget it was happening, and I chalked it up as part of the downtown experience in a vibrant, transit oriented downtown.

[TheSteveHunt]

I don't think I've ever seen a more viral gold-plated bureaucratic buzzword than 'vibrant" before. Pretty amazing. So much so that it is becoming a cottage industry, as there is now an Institute of vibrancy studies. Strange world.

[jedicurt]

In November I stayed in downtown Houston and my hotel was on the intersection of two of their downtown rail routes and I heard the chime every few minutes through the night. While annoying at first, it didn't take long to forget it was happening, and I chalked it up as part of the downtown experience in a vibrant, transit oriented downtown.

This... at my previous job, i stayed in Downtown San Francisco very often, and these are just the noises of the city. Street Cars, Trolleys, Cars hocking, Sirens, all just noises of a city. While our streetcar might be overdoing the bells right now, if this is the complaint people have, then they aren't going to live Urbanization anywhere...

[dankrutka]

I don't think I've ever seen a more viral gold-plated bureaucratic buzzword than 'vibrant" before. Pretty amazing. So much so that it is becoming a cottage industry, as there is now an Institute of vibrancy studies. Strange world.

IVS is far superior to its rival school, the Institute of Lethargy Studies. The campus is located deep in the sprawl of suburbs. Every hallway is a cul-de-sac in which you can park your car right in your office. Food is catered by Applebee's carryout so no one has to interact or walk anywhere. Enrollees can specialize in NIMBYism to ensure there is never vibrancy in their backyard.

[BBatesokc]

This... at my previous job, i stayed in Downtown San Francisco very often, and these are just the noises of the city. Street Cars, Trolleys, Cars hocking, Sirens, all just noises of a city. While our streetcar might be overdoing the bells right now, if this is the complaint people have, then they aren't going to live Urbanization anywhere...

Which is well and good unless your established office near one of these bells routinely records audio and the bells pierce the otherwise silence or indistinguishable ambient noise - causing you to either pause recording, redo audio or spend extra time in post production. In our building radio commercials are recorded, video and audiotaped depositions are recorded, conference calls are the norm, court reporting is commonplace, media interviews being recorded are common, etc.

I was even recording all of my upcoming audio for my podcast but just last week moved the recording studio/equipment to my home office.

To me it's not a huge deal, I actually prefer to work at home. But, my statement that someone was moving their office (not referring to me) because of the loud bells still stands.

[jedicurt]

Which is well and good unless your established office near one of these bells routinely records audio and the bells pierce the otherwise silence or indistinguishable ambient noise - causing you to either pause recording, redo audio or spend extra time in post production. In our building radio commercials are recorded, video and audiotaped depositions are recorded, conference calls are the norm, court reporting is commonplace, media interviews being recorded are common, etc.

I was even recording all of my upcoming audio for my podcast but just last week moved the recording studio/equipment to my home office.

To me it's not a huge deal, I actually prefer to work at home. But, my statement that someone was moving their office (not referring to me) because of the loud bells still stands.

and a business that was established before has more of a ground to stand on... i was more going back to the person who wasn't happy with their hotel room.

[BBatesokc]

Also, why is the EMBARK website so neglected?

Under "What's New" - the most recent posting is dated 8/10/2018 and deals with the Santa Fe Parking Garage. I guess the launch of a $130-million streetcar doesn't make the 'What's New' criteria?

I tried to use the "Journey Planner" on the home page - that thing is completely useless. I tried several different addresses and it just keeps saying the addresses are invalid.

Also, the printable map at http://okcstreetcar.com/ride-guide/route-map/ shows Park Ave. connecting to EK Gaylord (it actually dead ends at the Skirvin and the parking garage prevents Park Ave from connection to EK Gaylord.

I also still don't get why there is no streetcar route map that shows all the restaurants and retail stores along that route.

[BBatesokc]

and a business that was established before has more of a ground to stand on... i was more going back to the person who wasn't happy with their hotel room.

I get that. When I travel to NYC it's always very difficult for me to sleep because of all the city street noise going on outside my window. But, I'm in NYC, so I get it.

You know when booking a room that you intentionally choose a downtown location and might get noise.

As for us, there was no noise at regular intervals, that pierced the building, until the street car's arrival.

I don't get the need to sound the bells at all. The vehicles re just as deadly and they don't sound a horn when going through an intersection.

[Jersey Boss]

I would think that the local Chamber of Commerce should be providing maps showing retail along the route. Isn't the promotion of business what they are supposed to be all about?

[Urban Pioneer]

So mainly I realize you can fix SC problem by priorty system but did the city traffic engineers even look at these questions? If not asked maybe they didn’t? They might have focused solely on crosswalks? I didn’t read “there will be no considerable imapct to car traffic at or within a block of the street car route sue to adding SC light priority”.

I appreciate your replying in a respectful manner and am not trying to create problems either. I would just hope they used good and recent data to see any residual problems a SC light priority would potentially create.

Thanks!

No problem. We did and we have discussed impacts to vehicular traffic although that was. I think everyone in these meetings is aware of several locations like you describe where we have to be hyper-aware of impacts. 5th / Broadway, 4th / Broadway, and 4th / Robinson easily come to mind as areas that have to be monitored when deployment of this technology takes place. Fortunately, a great many of the streetcar movements are with the flow of traffic during times of friction between modes. The reason that pedestrian buttons were discussed so much is that they actually cause more and longer disruptions to cycle times than the streetcar even would. They are random and disruptive to cycle patterns for both automobiles and streetcars. So in these discussions, many of the conversations revolve around the challenges that increased use of ped buttons presents to overall movements.

[Urban Pioneer]

I would think that the local Chamber of Commerce should be providing maps showing retail along the route. Isn't the promotion of business what they are supposed to be all about?

Downtown OKC Inc. usually handles this.

[PaddyShack]

Mayor Holt just announced the free period is extended to Feb 1st via Twitter.

[Anonymous.]

Great news! Let's keep these extensions going. I would not mind to see some corporate sponsors help in this effort.

[shawnw]

It is great news but I would have had it run through the weekend, starting fares on Monday instead of on Saturday where visitors arriving on Friday would be free one day and not the next.

[David]

Fantastic!

For the curious: https://twitter.com/davidfholt/statu...29997392740352. It's a great account to follow if you are of the Twitter persuasion, Holt is using social media for meaningful city business quite a bit more than Cornett did.

[soonerguru]

Great news and great decision. Mayor Holt is a boss!