Streetcar

[Richard at Remax]

So why are we wanting a GPS map of the trains? I have honestly never seen this used anywhere. Vienna, London, Paris, Barcelona, NYC, etc. It is always just a time until next train/streetcar arrives.

Most, if not all of these stations, are located out of the elements. We are going to ride it tomorrow to some breweries and it would be nice to time if perfectly so we aren't freezing too much.

[dankrutka]

Most, if not all of these stations, are located out of the elements. We are going to ride it tomorrow to some breweries and it would be nice to time if perfectly so we aren't freezing too much.

One good thing about the OKC streetcars is that at least they are around businesses and activity. When I ride the A-Train and DART Green Line in Dallas, they are largely park-and-ride stops and there's no businesses anywhere to be seen. I've sat at empty stops in the dark, lonely night by myself waiting for a connecting trains in awful weather or at the end of the line in the middle of nowhere waiting for a Lyft ride to get me the rest of the way home. In short, avoid building the commuter rails around park-and-rides and try to build them through urban areas (e.g., downtown Norman) or areas where developers can build with urban design. Near many streetcar stops, you could order food or a drink, tab out, and then hurry to the stop once the streetcar appears.

[OKC Guy]

So many comments and the concerns raised over this massive thread still exist.

Saying its cheap is misleading. It cost us over $130,000,00 plus will continue to cost as we move forward. Driver labor, staff labor, car upkeep, maint depot upkeep and all the ads and other promo.

Being a circular means it will never ever be on time. Its too massive a line to do so mixed in with roads/cars.

It seems more of a tourist novelty and thats fine if we admit it and use it to promote OKC from that perspective. To say its an efficient people mover for the masses is wrong imo. Since it uses roads unless you live close to route or are tourist its not efficient.

Someone mentioned density and once we get there it will be useful. We are 100 years from that lol. Are we that far ahead?

Related to above para, look at NYC. One of the biggest metro areas there is ,very dense. Yet they still use roads! They have no streetcars! They use subways, trains, buses and taxi’s. You can get anywhere with taxi. They would never take car lanes for a streetcar it would hurt them.

We should have made this a 2 way type setup. As is if you need to get back to where you started and if you did 1/5th on way to meeting now you have to ride 4/5ths of the track to get back. A 2 way system would solve this. It would have required changing streetcars and catch the ones going other way but would have been more efficient. Expanding will not make it more efficient either. Imagine had the line ran east/west all the way on 10th to medical district but with 2 rails. Another set running north/south on a major road. And if 2 routes east/west and 2 north/south they intersect and you can get somewhere yet open it up to more people with less total roads used.

Another point, businesses downtown will not stand for another round of torn up roads it killed a lot of revenue for them. They need a break to make business work.

We missed an opportunity to make it a true “efficient people mover”. We do however have something not many cities have and need go embrace this as a tourist feature. And for the few people it helps that live close then great. Unless we build Devon sized high rise apartments we will never have the density to make our roads obsolete. But now we do have cars competing with trams and neither works good now (on the route).

One thing is why fancy buses could not have accomplished the same thing with less expense and no torn up roads/disruption. And buses are able to adjust routes if its realized the current one is not the best. With streetcar we are stuck with this route no matter what changes.

And before someome says buses are not working outside downtown, I say streetcars would not work outside of downtown either. Downtown and suburbia are 2 different things. Had we spent half the money and using mini luxury buses could have had one every few minutes. In fact had we used a lot of small lux buses that would maybe have forced more drivers off road than SC ever will. I would have rather spent the money to get people to downtown (light rail) and then have this massive lux mini bus system all over. Think of NYC taxis but with mini lux buses.

I hope Street Car works due to the cost but I can firmly say any votes for exapansion or upgrade would get my no vote. We need to go a few years and revisit them. I think its calling card is tourists. And we have yet resolved moving people around downtown. I’m sure to get some surly replies and thats fine. I love my city and am giving my honest opinion typos and all.

[LocoAko]

So many comments and the concerns raised over this massive thread still exist.

Saying its cheap is misleading. It cost us over $130,000,00 plus will continue to cost as we move forward. Driver labor, staff labor, car upkeep, maint depot upkeep and all the ads and other promo.

Being a circular means it will never ever be on time. Its too massive a line to do so mixed in with roads/cars.

It seems more of a tourist novelty and thats fine if we admit it and use it to promote OKC from that perspective. To say its an efficient people mover for the masses is wrong imo. Since it uses roads unless you live close to route or are tourist its not efficient.

Someone mentioned density and once we get there it will be useful. We are 100 years from that lol. Are we that far ahead?

Related to above para, look at NYC. One of the biggest metro areas there is ,very dense. Yet they still use roads! They have no streetcars! They use subways, trains, buses and taxi’s. You can get anywhere with taxi. They would never take car lanes for a streetcar it would hurt them.

We should have made this a 2 way type setup. As is if you need to get back to where you started and if you did 1/5th on way to meeting now you have to ride 4/5ths of the track to get back. A 2 way system would solve this. It would have required changing streetcars and catch the ones going other way but would have been more efficient. Expanding will not make it more efficient either. Imagine had the line ran east/west all the way on 10th to medical district but with 2 rails. Another set running north/south on a major road. And if 2 routes east/west and 2 north/south they intersect and you can get somewhere yet open it up to more people with less total roads used.

Another point, businesses downtown will not stand for another round of torn up roads it killed a lot of revenue for them. They need a break to make business work.

We missed an opportunity to make it a true “efficient people mover”. We do however have something not many cities have and need go embrace this as a tourist feature. And for the few people it helps that live close then great. Unless we build Devon sized high rise apartments we will never have the density to make our roads obsolete. But now we do have cars competing with trams and neither works good now (on the route).

One thing is why fancy buses could not have accomplished the same thing with less expense and no torn up roads/disruption. And buses are able to adjust routes if its realized the current one is not the best. With streetcar we are stuck with this route no matter what changes.

And before someome says buses are not working outside downtown, I say streetcars would not work outside of downtown either. Downtown and suburbia are 2 different things. Had we spent half the money and using mini luxury buses could have had one every few minutes. In fact had we used a lot of small lux buses that would maybe have forced more drivers off road than SC ever will. I would have rather spent the money to get people to downtown (light rail) and then have this massive lux mini bus system all over. Think of NYC taxis but with mini lux buses.

I hope Street Car works due to the cost but I can firmly say any votes for exapansion or upgrade would get my no vote. We need to go a few years and revisit them. I think its calling card is tourists. And we have yet resolved moving people around downtown. I’m sure to get some surly replies and thats fine. I love my city and am giving my honest opinion typos and all.

Many of these points are straw men (who is talking about making roads obsolete?) or arguments that have been addressed multiple times in this thread (e.g., the benefits of a fixed-route system). However, I do agree that even if it is mostly for tourists or out-of-town visitors that it isn't necessarily a fail and can still serve a useful purpose.

[OKC Guy]

Many of these points are straw men (who is talking about making roads obsolete?) or arguments that have been addressed multiple times in this thread (e.g., the benefits of a fixed-route system). However, I do agree that even if it is mostly for tourists or out-of-town visitors that it isn't necessarily a fail and can still serve a useful purpose.

Its not strawman a poster on prior page talked aboit making cars obsolete with SC being one of the viable options.

I just never see this as a true people mover. So some want to expand it all the way west or north to Penn Square. Its not designed for that and my point isI don’t see expansion as an option. In fact in time we may realize if we put 2 way SCs it could move people around more efficiently. So any future costs might be adding a 2 way type system? I think thats where we end up down the road. A one way system is just that “one way”. This is great for tourists not in a hurry.

Until we get OMNI done and draw more tourists/conventions we need local users to subsidize it to help pay for running costs. If the downtown workers can’t use it efficiently then you will lose a core paying base. Thats the worry, and is why lunchtime efficiency is important, to get users paying.

Speaking of that, does anyone know what the breakeven ridership per day is to pay overhead? I’ve not seen it listed and would be interested to know. Because above all else we have to hit those targets else people will feel left out if this is hidden. This SC project is owned by all citizens not just the users. And it will be important costs and ridership are transparent else we lose oit on future MAPs, if trust is lost.

Once OMNI/Convention Center open that will help out a ton.

[Pryor Tiger]

A lot of thought went into this and continues to. I’d say the best path to take is continue constructive thoughts and give them some time to make adjustments. Also, there are easy ways to walk a block here or there which can cut off 6-8 stops easily when needing to back the other direction.

[Urban Pioneer]

I've got a question for UP. The streetcar has been incredibly busy so far. My assumption is that part of this is because it's a new toy, and because a lot of people are trying it out while it's free. Plus you've probably got a lot of people who are coming downtown for Christmas stuff and this is the one time of the year they come here.

But, what if it's not? What if six months from now, it's still this crowded? If it's necessary, what are the procedures for adding additional streetcars? We've got 7 right now, how do we go about getting an 8th, 9th, or 10th? Are there any sort of benchmarks that would cause the city to look at additional purchases? We've had a lot of comments on this thread about getting the kinks worked out, what if it's a smashing success?

First of all, I will address your questions as they are great questions. Regarding OKCGUY, how about you get off your lazy a** and read the previous 300 page thread? All of your issues and canards have been addressed. Furthermore, 50,000 people just rode the damn thing. I am tired of people complaining who have zero vision or aptitude to change this city for the better. It’s not a double-track system on the same street because we want people to ******* walk. And guess what, that is working!

Regarding the questions, if ridership plummets, then the city really needs to look at the Kansas City fare-free model more seriously. Ticketing is a barrier undoubtedly. This system should serve both as a major public transit mechanism who’s value will continue to grow with time and also a Sales Tax revenue generator that can pour millions into city coffers for reinvestment.

If ridership increases or expansions into Capitol Hill, NE Side, and NW quadrants become a reality, the City should consider aggressively extending its current “buy options” into 2020 so that they can purchase the current streetcar models at the negotiated 2017 prices. We have seven “options” available. That part of the contract expires this coming year if not exercised or extended. We would then have to go through the procurement process again which will take time and add multitudes of potential conflicts if a different vehicle type is chosen.

Hope that helps.

[OKC Guy]

First of all, I will address your questions as they are great questions. Regarding OKCGUY, how about you get off your lazy a** and read the previous 300 page thread? All of your issues and canards have been addressed. Furthermore, 50,000 people just rode the damn thing. I am tired of people complaining who have zero vision or aptitude to change this city for the better. It’s not a double-track system on the same street because we want people to ******* walk. And guess what, that is working!

Regarding the questions, if ridership plummets, then the city really needs to look at the Kansas City fare-free model more seriously. Ticketing is a barrier undoubtedly. This system should serve both as a major public transit mechanism who’s value will continue to grow with time and also a Sales Tax revenue generator that can pour millions into city coffers for reinvestment.

If ridership increases or expansions into Capitol Hill, NE Side, and NW quadrants become a reality, the City should consider aggressively extending its current “buy options” into 2020 so that they can purchase the current streetcar models at the negotiated 2017 prices. We have seven “options” available. That part of the contract expires this coming year if not exercised or extended. We would then have to go through the procurement process again which will take time and add multitudes of potential conflicts if a different vehicle type is chosen.

Hope that helps.

I respect your personal contributions to this project and realize its close to home for you. Hats off to you for all your hard work I do not mean to diminish it.

I also feel citizens like me should have an equal voice without being pushed aside or bullied for voicing opinions. There is a lot of talk about expanding it and thus my comments on 2 way rails. If we end up spending more money then I am expressimg my voice.

Question: After the free rides are over do you know what the average daily paid ridership needs to be for break even?

Thanks, and I have no intentions of bullying back. I want whats best for the city I love.

[shawnw]

Just FYI, no transit system in the world "breaks even". But also, roads don't break even either (e.g. from gas taxes).

I'm pretty sure all the numbers you could want are given at the Embark board meeting (https://embarkok.com/about/board-meetings). If you cannot attend you can watch it on YouTube or Cox Channel 20.

[OKC Guy]

Just FYI, no transit system in the world "breaks even". But also, roads don't break even either (e.g. from gas taxes).

I'm pretty sure all the numbers you could want are given at the Embark board meeting (https://embarkok.com/about/board-meetings). If you cannot attend you can watch it on YouTube or Cox Channel 20.

If not mistaken the OK Turnpike actually makes money but then spends it on bonds for future expansion. Transit does break even.

Before we add more the citizens need to know how much it loses. I don’t expect it to make money right away but am looking at long term. We need to learn how much it costs to subsidize if it loses money especially before we expand and then we have more miles and more loss to cover with our taxes.

I think its a fair question

For the record Hong Kong makes money and I’ve riden it what a great shstem. Same in Japan and I’ve riden it too.

[shawnw]

You question is absolutely fair. Watch the board meetings. Or attend and ask the questions to those folks directly for factual data.

I'd like to see numbers on multi-billion dollar transit systems making money. I'm totally okay with being wrong on that point.

[OKC Guy]

You question is absolutely fair. Watch the board meetings. Or attend and ask the questions to those folks directly for factual data.

I'd like to see numbers on multi-billion dollar transit systems making money. I'm totally okay with being wrong on that point.

I would bet a majority of them lose. So we have to decide how much of the pie to cut for SC but also keep spending on buses and other wants like light rail or even train. Each addition adds more long term cost so something has to suffer or taxes have to keep going up.

I think the money makers are going to be overseas where they built transit systems before cars (roads) had a head start like here. We were built on roads and adding other transit which is complicated. It would be like overseas building roads around rails so to speak. Each has challenges.

I’ll leave this thread for awhile my being attacked prediction came true and I am not trying to come across as a bad guy. But some are so inside this system its impossible for someone like me to express opinion without being attacked. Better to back away for awhile and let it run its course. I’ll be active enough when it comes to any votes, once I see how it works over time. If it works I’ll 100% support it too, to be clear. Thats my hope.

[catch22]

Why does it have to make money?

I’ve never had a road construction crew ask for money before they fixed a pothole.

[BBatesokc]

I respect your personal contributions to this project and realize its close to home for you. Hats off to you for all your hard work I do not mean to diminish it.

I also feel citizens like me should have an equal voice without being pushed aside or bullied for voicing opinions. There is a lot of talk about expanding it and thus my comments on 2 way rails. If we end up spending more money then I am expressimg my voice.

Question: After the free rides are over do you know what the average daily paid ridership needs to be for break even?

Thanks, and I have no intentions of bullying back. I want whats best for the city I love.

Yeah, his comments and general attitude in that post were uncalled for - especially considering his relationship with the topic. Hopefully the streetcars are made with thicker skin than he is.

[BBatesokc]

It’s funny to me that the success or lack of success is based on the 11am-1pm downtown worker lunch break range. Over the next decade the streetcar will spawn development which has residents, retail, restaurants, bars, and entertainment options. Some of this is already in place. The densification of downtown around the route will determine the success, not the office worker trying to go to fuzzy’s in bricktown for a $7 taco basket.

Downtown residents and visitors will determine the success of the streetcar, not the guy driving a BMW down from Edmond in to the Devon parking garage. Out of the 18 or so hours a day the streetcar is open, the only complaints I hear are from people not being able to use it at noon to go to lunch. That’s a small sample size and is not necessarily the ideal everyday use.

I don't think it's "funny" at all that we spent 135 million+ on something that the average downtown worker (you know, those who primarily occupy downtown during the day, during the week and have to put up with the construction and inconvenience) are struggling to find the relevance of the streetcar - and that's taking into consideration the average downtown worker's needs from 8-5 (not just 11am-1pm).

I park in a private lot downtown in front of my office. My wife parks in a parking garage downtown and has to walk to/from her office. I move about the downtown core throughout my day - everyday. My wife goes to/from the parking garage, gets out occasionally for lunch and goes to both the main street and main Y locations downtown.

I would think those scenarios of our interactions downtown are pretty common amongst downtown workers. Yet, I can't find a single instance where the Streetcar benefits us beyond the novelty of it. It doesn't get either of us from or to our cars faster or more conveniently (it's actually the complete opposite), we can't utilize it for lunch and it's a huge time waster when it comes to running errands downtown. Which is fine if we just come out and say, "the $135-million street car really isn't for those who most occupy downtown day-to-day." It's for.... well, I really don't know who it's for at that price tag, but "boy isn't it cool we are a big league city now!"

I hope it succeeds. And by that, I mean I just hope it can pay for itself going forward and that people find a way to adjust to make the streetcar relevant beyond it's warm fuzzy presence.

[Urban Pioneer]

Yeah, his comments and general attitude in that post were uncalled for - especially considering his relationship with the topic. Hopefully, the streetcars are made with thicker skin than he is.

First of all, his response to my commentary was quite kind and I appreciate that. But his earlier commentary fully went trollville. Most if not all of those concerns, comments, and arguments have been hashed out in the proceeding 300-page thread. Anyone who really knows me will tell you I'll gladly speak my mind.

Trolling commentary should go straight into the electronic wastebasket.

Back on subject, I agree with OKCGUY. Any extensions extending out of the existing system into distant districts should provide "two-way" service on the same corridor. There may a few exceptions, but generally, that would be a far better way to extend the system instead of couplets.

Another thing... now IS the time for honest feedback and good ideas. How do we extend the system? Where do we extend it? I'm not going to attack people for honest contributions. But relitigating past decisions that cannot be changed grates on my nerves and is a waste of everyone's time.

[TheSteveHunt]

yipes.

I don't think it's "funny" at all that we spent 135 million+ on something that the average downtown worker (you know, those who primarily occupy downtown during the day, during the week and have to put up with the construction and inconvenience) are struggling to find the relevance of the streetcar - and that's taking into consideration the average downtown worker's needs from 8-5 (not just 11am-1pm).

I park in a private lot downtown in front of my office. My wife parks in a parking garage downtown and has to walk to/from her office. I move about the downtown core throughout my day - everyday. My wife goes to/from the parking garage, gets out occasionally for lunch and goes to both the main street and main Y locations downtown.

I would think those scenarios of our interactions downtown are pretty common amongst downtown workers. Yet, I can't find a single instance where the Streetcar benefits us beyond the novelty of it. It doesn't get either of us from or to our cars faster or more conveniently (it's actually the complete opposite), we can't utilize it for lunch and it's a huge time waster when it comes to running errands downtown. Which is fine if we just come out and say, "the $135-million street car really isn't for those who most occupy downtown day-to-day." It's for.... well, I really don't know who it's for at that price tag, but "boy isn't it cool we are a big league city now!"

I hope it succeeds. And by that, I mean I just hope it can pay for itself going forward and that people find a way to adjust to make the streetcar relevant beyond it's warm fuzzy presence.

[PaddyShack]

I think the money makers are going to be overseas where they built transit systems before cars (roads) had a head start like here. We were built on roads and adding other transit which is complicated. It would be like overseas building roads around rails so to speak. Each has challenges.

Many cities across the US, including OKC had public transit in place before cars were so widespread. The difference between European cities and American cities comes from how the different modes of transportation were subsidized. For the US, the automobile industry was able to capture more politicians and help create a better environment to mass produce cars for people as well as getting cheaper prices on oil to power them. This is still seen today as it is very cheap to obtain a driver's license and one can start driving as early as 16, compared to the higher prices of licenses and driving classes in Europe, most drivers don't start until 18, sometimes never. European countries also heavily subsidize public transit over personal vehicles and fuel. Most city centers have heavy taxes and fees to even drive a vehicle around town.

The other facet is that most rail traffic in Europe is state owned companies. Whereas here in the US we have private businesses who actually own the tracks and operate freight lines making more hurdles for public transit when wanting to create a city wide system.

The street car is an easy build due to being on public access streets instead of trying to negotiate with private rail companies.

Whenever I read about the transition from the Interurban to city buses in OKC, it gives me a headache. Politicians at the time wanted a cheaper solution, now decades later we have a confusing bus system that garners many complaints. So why are buses seen as a better transit option city wide? I think having a system with both a streetcar and buses is the answer. We just need to give OKC time to shift how we see transit. One can get a day-pass for Embark for $4. Does it take more time? Yes, but for $4 that beats using gas and paying to park and allows one to get some extra work done while riding the system.

[catch22]

I don't think it's "funny" at all that we spent 135 million+ on something that the average downtown worker (you know, those who primarily occupy downtown during the day, during the week and have to put up with the construction and inconvenience) are struggling to find the relevance of the streetcar - and that's taking into consideration the average downtown worker's needs from 8-5 (not just 11am-1pm).

I park in a private lot downtown in front of my office. My wife parks in a parking garage downtown and has to walk to/from her office. I move about the downtown core throughout my day - everyday. My wife goes to/from the parking garage, gets out occasionally for lunch and goes to both the main street and main Y locations downtown.

I would think those scenarios of our interactions downtown are pretty common amongst downtown workers. Yet, I can't find a single instance where the Streetcar benefits us beyond the novelty of it. It doesn't get either of us from or to our cars faster or more conveniently (it's actually the complete opposite), we can't utilize it for lunch and it's a huge time waster when it comes to running errands downtown. Which is fine if we just come out and say, "the $135-million street car really isn't for those who most occupy downtown day-to-day." It's for.... well, I really don't know who it's for at that price tag, but "boy isn't it cool we are a big league city now!"

I hope it succeeds. And by that, I mean I just hope it can pay for itself going forward and that people find a way to adjust to make the streetcar relevant beyond it's warm fuzzy presence.

It’s already paid for? Literally the only cost is the cost to operate it and maintain it. That’s quite literally a 100% unique situation to OKC. How do you feel about the MAPS sidewalks and trails? Are you hoping those pay for themselves too? Senior citizen centers? I’m sure those are huge profit centers for the city as well. Did we ever install paid turnstiles at the Bricktown canal? Only those who pay may walk along if?

Why is the streetcar literally the only thing that has to “pay for itself”? Yes it is funny because the streetcar is for everyone and not just the office worker. The goal is to have an entire neighborhood be built around the line. If it happens to work for your lunch break that is great! If not, that doesn’t mean the system is flawed or not paying for itself.

Edit: and ideally, the streetcar is more likely to create a downtown where you don’t even want to ride it to lunch. The densification that occurs along fixed guideway transit usually means you will eventually have several restaurants right next to your office. Within walking distance. The streetcar will likely be the catalyst to some rapid densification in the 2-3 blocks surrounding the line.

[Zuplar]

I think the comments on it not being viable for those working downtown for lunch are completely relevant. As I recall in this very thread, many of the people pressing hard for the streetcar used this as an example of the benefits of having a streetcar. Now that it's operational and proving it's not as viable as once was thought, the notion is being completely discounted as "that's not it's intended purpose."

While I agree that was never it's primary goal, it irks me now to see this shift in the narrative that it was always meant to serve multiple purposes. Who knows maybe with some signal prioritization it will speed it up enough to make it viable for those utilizing it for lunch. Now that we got it we might as well make it the best streetcar we can while it's new and fresh in everyone's minds.

[Anonymous.]

^It is almost as if there are hundreds of different posters in this thread over the lifetime of it existing for almost ten years. The OKC streetcar itself was first being conceptualized in 2005, that is forever ago in terms of where OKC is today.

Edit: and ideally, the streetcar is more likely to create a downtown where you don’t even want to ride it to lunch. The densification that occurs along fixed guideway transit usually means you will eventually have several restaurants right next to your office. Within walking distance. The streetcar will likely be the catalyst to some rapid densification in the 2-3 blocks surrounding the line.

This is why sales and property taxes along the line can/[hopefully will be] used for making the system free to use in the near future.

[Urban Pioneer]

I agree that lunch users are relevant... particularly from an economic Sales Taxe Revenue standpoint. With the improved and broader deployment of signal prioritization and our launch of a real-time GPS map, using it for such purposes will increase in viability.

And yes, in ten years the broader diversification and densification of the area means that operationally, it should benefit from these improved demographics downtown.

[Pryor Tiger]

Re: Lunch issues - it totally depends on where you start/finish. I believe it would be beneficial to run the Bricktown loop between 10am-2pm as that would add a lot of functionality for many. If you work in the core/skyscraper area and leave for lunch at 11:30am, AND google had the timings listed so you didn't waste time at a stop, you could easily make it to lunch and back in an hour. With signal prioritization it is even more feasible. Also - Okcstreetcar.com is now finally on the 1st page of google search results and will keep moving up. Are they using some google adword marketing on this?

Ex of lunch experiences - starting in the core Park/Robinson area. Get on at Oklahoma tower and be in Bricktown in 2 stops - 5 min. Get back on and ride to Library stop 8 stops - 10-15 minutes. You have 40 minutes to eat.

Get on at Library stop to get to Auto Alley or Midtown - 4 stops to get to Auto Alley, 6 or 7 to Midtown - 10 minutes. Get back on and ride to stop at Oklahoma Tower - 6 stops - 10 minutes. 40 minutes to eat.

[jedicurt]

AND google had the timings listed so you didn't waste time at a stop, you could easily make it to lunch and back in an hour.

very much this

[okatty]

In the famous words of that great American poet, Jimmy Buffett:

I wish lunch could last forever
Make the whole day one big afternoon
We'll begin with dessert a little coconut tart
Mmmm tastes as sweet as a piece of your heart
Cafe au lait beneath the Paris (OKC?) moon