Streetlight Outages

[Pete]

^

Thanks for posting that.


It seems to me that before anyone could sell copper wire to a recycler, they should have a state-issued permit.

What good does it do to take ID from a crackhead who will never be found and who has already destroyed a lot of expensive wiring and equipment?

This also should be a federal issue otherwise the thieves will just drive to the next state.


I'm dead sure the recyclers know darn well these are addicts selling this stuff but they are absolved because they technically follow the rules.

How many legitimate recyclers of copper wire can their be? A few demolition companies?

[jn1780]

Why even bother having lights associated with new projects at this point. Is there no way to secure the cooper better?

[Plutonic Panda]

I don’t notice it to be much of an issue here in LA. Surely there are cities out there who have figured it out. Maybe it’s due to my ignorance on how to fix the issue, but this seems like it could be figured out with some investigative reporting. Go to a bunch of cities and find out which ones suffer the worst from this problem. Interview city governments to see if they had it in the past and what they did to fix it. Apply the same methods here.

Surely it can’t be this hard to stop thieves from stealing copper. Use different material. Do as Pete said and require people to have licenses. Make the light bases harder to break into. Place more cameras and dedicate more staff 24/7 to have more surveillance in place to catch these theifs. Train officers better to keep an eye on streetlight bases. Find a way to have an alert issued by sensors on the streetlight that could detect someone tampering with using various methods.

Surely with all the money that has been spent they should allocate some money to R&D on preventing copper theft.

[stile99]

It comes down to two things, and really only one thing. Will and money. Using something other than copper fixes the problem of copper being stolen forever, but it costs more. Oklahoma can't get it through it's dumb collective head that spending that more now means spending less in the long run. (Number used for illustration) Buy something that costs three times as much once, or replace it five times. But Oklahoma lacks the will (wit?) to spend the higher bill the one time.

Case in point, remember just within the last couple weeks someone was caught trying to steal a light pole. When called on it by THE LOCAL NEWS who caught him in the act, he claimed it had lain there for years, so OG&E abandoned it. Cops were called and he told them the same thing, it was abandoned. When they told him that's not how it works, he responded that he was going to take it anyway, and if OG&E wanted it back they could ask for it. Did they arrest him? No, they sent him on his merry way so he could come back later.

[bucktalk]

This!!
I'm dead sure the recyclers know darn well these are addicts selling this stuff but they are absolved because they technically follow the rules.

^

It seems to me that before anyone could sell copper wire to a recycler, they should have a state-issued permit.

What good does it do to take ID from a crackhead who will never be found and who has already destroyed a lot of expensive wiring and equipment?

This also should be a federal issue otherwise the thieves will just drive to the next state.


I'm dead sure the recyclers know darn well these are addicts selling this stuff but they are absolved because they technically follow the rules.

How many legitimate recyclers of copper wire can their be? A few demolition companies?

[Bill Robertson]

It comes down to two things, and really only one thing. Will and money. Using something other than copper fixes the problem of copper being stolen forever, but it costs more. Oklahoma can't get it through it's dumb collective head that spending that more now means spending less in the long run. (Number used for illustration) Buy something that costs three times as much once, or replace it five times. But Oklahoma lacks the will (wit?) to spend the higher bill the one time.

There are lots of problems trying to fix the problem. The conduit between light poles probably isn’t big enough to fit aluminum wire because aluminum has to be larger for the same load. Changing out thousands of miles of conduit would cost a large fortune. The lights could be changed to LED which uses much less power so then the current conduit would work. But thousands of LED street lights would again be a large fortune. Also, the market for scrap aluminum isn’t bad so aluminum wire would probably get stolen too.

[HOT ROD]

didn't somebody recently get electrocuted trying to steal copper from a light pole?

Justice, no?

[soonerguru]

There are lots of problems trying to fix the problem. The conduit between light poles probably isn’t big enough to fit aluminum wire because aluminum has to be larger for the same load. Changing out thousands of miles of conduit would cost a large fortune. The lights could be changed to LED which uses much less power so then the current conduit would work. But thousands of LED street lights would again be a large fortune. Also, the market for scrap aluminum isn’t bad so aluminum wire would probably get stolen too.

These are good points, but beg the questions:

1. Is what we are doing now working? (No.)
2. Does doing stuff right cost more? (Yes.)
3. Is it acceptable for the major byways of our city to be cloaked in darkness? (No.)

So, let's get cracking on getting this fixed because it must be fixed and patching the problem further is a waste of time, effort and money.

[Scott5114]

Norman has already been changing street lights over to LED. It is expensive, but the costs savings in energy and reduced maintenance make it worth it. Being able to use aluminum wire is a pleasant side-effect.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

I'm in Philadelphia this week, not so much of an issue here. Mainly due to the laws being strengthened for metal scrapping, but it was more than street light metal that forced action. The highways I've been on have been lit, as many of the local streets have been. Just much brighter than OKC is, on average, when driving or walking at night.

[Bill Robertson]

These are good points, but beg the questions:

1. Is what we are doing now working? (No.)
2. Does doing stuff right cost more? (Yes.)
3. Is it acceptable for the major byways of our city to be cloaked in darkness? (No.)

So, let's get cracking on getting this fixed because it must be fixed and patching the problem further is a waste of time, effort and money.

1. Agree completely
2. Much more. Many times more.
3. Agree completely

Problem is where are the funds going to come from. I’m assuming that major byways are going to be state DOT. The state can’t fund normal operations. Forget many millions in additional add ons. I’d love to see LED lighting on all our highways but it’s just not likely to happen anytime soon. I would come closer to thinking OKC might see the light and begin a plan to change over.

[PaddyShack]

Bethany has also upgraded 66/ NW 39th with LEDs. Definitely an improvement. I wish Yukon would make the switch.

[Bullbear]

Was reading an article and don't recall the cities listed but an upgrade of streetlight systems to not Only LED but also Solar. I would think this would solve the Copper or even aluminum theft issues and save money.. What I do know is that our highways and streets are dangerously dark it just looks terrible all over the city. I notice it constantly.

[Plutonic Panda]

These are good points, but beg the questions:

1. Is what we are doing now working? (No.)
2. Does doing stuff right cost more? (Yes.)
3. Is it acceptable for the major byways of our city to be cloaked in darkness? (No.)

So, let's get cracking on getting this fixed because it must be fixed and patching the problem further is a waste of time, effort and money.

Great post! Simple and to the point. It just isn’t acceptable, the current situation in OKC regarding street lighting.

[mugofbeer]

I was in OKC over the weekend and noted the darkness along many stretches of highway.

I know I've seen it mentioned before in the thread, but it seems to me the simple answer is to look to cities that don't have this problem and mirror what they do. Its either going to mean a strict law regulating those who give cash for copper wiring or some sort of different light post that can't be tampered with as easily.

[TheTravellers]

Forgot to post this when I contacted the OCC with a complaint form asking them what the deal was with OG&E living up to their end WRT keeping the lights on (which you'd think would be written in to their charter or operating procedures or something that could be enforced).

"Thank you for contacting the Oklahoma Corporation Commission (OCC). After receiving your email I was able to obtain the information from OG&E utility company regarding the street light issue. Based on the information received, street lights and security lights are not currently metered, therefore there is no way to know one is out or malfunctioning unless OG&E is notified. OG&E do not own all street lights. Some cities and local areas own and maintain their own street lights. OG&E is are currently transitioning to LED lighting through fruition. Meaning when a light needs to be repaired OG&E will be replacing it with the new LED lighting. These lights do have a communication feature and will report to us when they are out or have a problem that needs to be repaired. Anyone can contact OG&E customer service at 800-272-9741 to report a street light that needs to be repaired. If OG&E do not own or maintain the light they do not have control over how long the city takes to repair their lights. I hope this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to assist you. "

I followed up with the OCC via email multiple times asking about OG&E's charter (or whatever lists their responsibilities as a public utility) and if there was anything in it like an SLA for lights to be operating or anything at all that says anything at all about keeping the lights on and got no response, so not only does OG&E not care, the Corporation Commission doesn't either. Great way to run things, but completely expected, very sadly.

If anybody knows where I could find that info, it'd be much appreciated (I'll start looking around on my own, but I just don't have any idea where to start)...

[stile99]

Is it possible to kick OG&E to the curb? Yesterday's Mustang paper had an article about a number of lights along 152 being out, with both the city and the paper trying to get answers from OG&E about it and getting nothing. First thought reading the article was we're right on the edge of OEC's territory, can we just switch?

[CloudDeckMedia]

As a utility, OG+E is regulated by the Oklahoma Corporation Commission.

[TheTravellers]

As a utility, OG+E is regulated by the Oklahoma Corporation Commission.

And?

[bchris02]

I was in OKC over the weekend and noted the darkness along many stretches of highway.

I know I've seen it mentioned before in the thread, but it seems to me the simple answer is to look to cities that don't have this problem and mirror what they do. Its either going to mean a strict law regulating those who give cash for copper wiring or some sort of different light post that can't be tampered with as easily.

Why is the excessive copper theft/streetlight outages a relatively recent problem for OKC? What changed 2-3 years ago compared to before that has caused this to be such a problem now?

[OKCRT]

Why is the excessive copper theft/streetlight outages a relatively recent problem for OKC? What changed 2-3 years ago compared to before that has caused this to be such a problem now?

Pretty sure this is not a new problem but maybe more widespread today. But it's been happening for quite a while.

[shawnw]

Maybe contact a commission directly?

[CloudDeckMedia]

Obviously to ask the CC to encourage OG+E to repair & maintain their lights.

[TheTravellers]

Maybe contact a commission directly?

Literally less than 2 hours and 5 posts ago, I said I did and they don't care.

[TheTravellers]

Obviously to ask the CC to encourage OG+E to repair & maintain their lights.

See posts 191 and 199, did you not read what I posted in 191?