Streetcar

[catch22]

I take public transit everywhere I go and I can’t think of streetcars/commuter trains with TV screens (if that is what you are talking about... or are you just talking about advertising screens). The map and announcement seemed like enough info for me. Do you know of examples of cities that have digital screens in their cars?

I think the Denver A-Line has them but I can’t remember what they display. I think just a safety slideshow or special message (event timings, disruptions, etc.)

[Plutonic Panda]

I take public transit everywhere I go and I can’t think of streetcars/commuter trains with TV screens (if that is what you are talking about... or are you just talking about advertising screens). The map and announcement seemed like enough info for me. Do you know of examples of cities that have digital screens in their cars?

Almost every city I’ve been to that rapid transit rail has multiple digital screens on the train— well the newer trains at least.

[BridgeBurner]

Maybe it is more of a European thing due to potential language barriers, I recently traveled in Switzerland and noticed (and heavily utilized) the screens to make sure I was going the right way.
The tram system in Amsterdam had them as well as far as I can recall.
When I travel in American cities I generally just use Uber/Lyft so I don't have a recent native comparison.
Attached a picture of what I am talking about.

[jedicurt]

I think the Denver A-Line has them but I can’t remember what they display. I think just a safety slideshow or special message (event timings, disruptions, etc.)

they display the next upcoming stop, and then advertisements.

[Ross MacLochness]

Honestly, seems like more of a wasted opportunity for advertising revenue than anything.

For that, I am grateful. I appreciate not having my visual field cluttered by advertising.

[LocoAko]

I take public transit everywhere I go and I can’t think of streetcars/commuter trains with TV screens (if that is what you are talking about... or are you just talking about advertising screens). The map and announcement seemed like enough info for me. Do you know of examples of cities that have digital screens in their cars?

I don't know if this counts in the category, but the PATH subway lines connecting NJ and NYC have screens in all the cars (mostly advertising, weather, news, quiz questions, etc.).

[Plutonic Panda]

I always wish for the streetcar out there to be running. I haven't seen it in years. I love El Reno's town center and think they should really be upping their game being the county seat and all. Being from Yukon, El Reno seems like a ghost town, but with the community college, some O+G companies and the county offices, El Reno should be bustling. I have a wish that if I were to start a company that I would place the HQ in downtown El Reno and jump start the town's revitalization. They really need to be better at capitalizing on their history and the infrastructure already in place.

Completely agree. El Reno and Guthrie are two towns close enough to OKC to draw from the momentum and still preserve a small town feel to offer an alternative to big city life. How long that will last is anyone’s guess before sprawl encompasses them and moves even further out, but that’s likely going to be awhile.

In the meantime, if anyone doesn’t know, el Reno has a fairly impressive streetcar line. I don’t believe it’s double tracked. I don’t know what it’d take to bring it back up to par where it can function daily. I don’t even think there are dedicated stop shelters.

IIRC, they have a rail depot where the streetcar maintenance base is stored. Eventually it could serve as a commuter rail terminus with OKC. It could be el Reno’s multimodal hub. They only issue is I don’t think the line is electrified, I can’t remember. It’s been awhile since I’ve been up there.

Maybe a smaller maps for el Reno restoring their transit hub/rail depot, expanding the streetcar maintenance building, finding some older trolleys like the style have(maybe around 4-5), electrifying the route, and restoring the existing tracks could be done for under 50 million. 100 million max. That’s just a guess.

I don’t know the community there, but I get the vibe that isn’t something they would go for. But you never know. Just an idea.

[dankrutka]

Almost every city I’ve been to that rapid transit rail has multiple digital screens on the train— well the newer trains at least.

Which cities are you referring to?

I am trying to figure out if I'm just not remembering these screens when I've used transit recently. Just off the top of my head, none of transit I've recently used in all of DFW (A-Train, DART, TRE), Chicago, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Minneapolis, D.C., etc. have these screens.

[dankrutka]

Thanks for sharing. I almost always take streetcars or commuter rails in whatever U.S. cities I travel to and I can't remember seeing similar screens. Plutonic Panda indicated that lots of cities do have such screens so I'm interested in learning where he's seen them...

[baralheia]

So I had a little time to kill yesterday afternoon so I rode the entire southern half of the loop, switching streetcars at the Courthouse/Museum stops. There were two big things that struck me when I rode it around...

First, the "doors are closing, please stand back" message must be manually controlled by the operator. I rode half of the loop, on two vehicles, and I can count on one hand how many times that message played before the doors closed. Same thing with the "hold on, this streetcar is about to move" message, which would have been helpful because the first operator wanted to GO. (I'm surprised how quick those things can accelerate!) In the grand scheme of things, the announcements are pretty minor, but it is noticeable.

Second... This isn't really a problem with the streetcar itself, but I got to witness a dude wearing an Oklahoma Second Amendment Association t-shirt hop on at the Mickey Mantle stop and take a seat - and then I noticed he was carrying a Glock 17 and 6 magazines on his hip. He looked to be livestreaming himself, and was looking around all shady-like... it seemed pretty obvious to me he was intentionally trying to provoke and record a confrontation with transit staff. I'm not gonna lie, I straight up laughed at him because of the absurdity of the situation. I've got zero problem with carrying legally, but unless something changed I'm pretty sure it's not legal to carry on public transit vehicles in Oklahoma - and then I've got some personal opinions on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of broadcasting that you're carrying a firearm and the utility (or lack thereof) of carrying so many rounds. My laugh aside, his desire for a confrontation was wholly denied and he hopped off at the Ballpark stop without incident. I'm not sure what (if anything) can or should be done in those sorts of circumstances, but that was certainly a notable thing that happened.

[Plutonic Panda]

Which cities are you referring to?

I am trying to figure out if I'm just not remembering these screens when I've used transit recently. Just off the top of my head, none of transit I've recently used in all of DFW (A-Train, DART, TRE), Chicago, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Minneapolis, D.C., etc. have these screens.

San Francisco, LA, and I’m forgetting one. I don’t think San Diego has them. Keep in mind, these are only the newer trains that have them.

LA metro will be replacing every red line subway car pretty soon so I’ll report on those when I start seeing them. Even some of the newer buses here have screens. They mainly show the next three stops in sequential order.

I like more technology. I’ve always thought it’d be cool if they had a little blip that represented the location of the car on the system map.

IMO, every little gimmick is nice for mass transit to make it as appealing as possible to people.

[Plutonic Panda]

Thanks for sharing. I almost always take streetcars or commuter rails in whatever U.S. cities I travel to and I can't remember seeing similar screens. Plutonic Panda indicated that lots of cities do have such screens so I'm interested in learning where he's seen them...

I don’t think I’ve ever seen commuter rail that has them. I don’t remember the last time I’ve ever been on a streetcar. I want to say I have, but it’s been awhile.

Edit: yes I’ve been on New Orleans streetcars and theirs doesn’t have it. But I love their streetcars. One coming every five minutes.

[king183]

Quick impressions from my first ride:

1) Loved the look and quality of the streetcar and the stops. Looks top-notch.

2) The streetcar seemed to move excruciatingly slow. I saw someone else mentioned this may be the drivers being cautious at first.

3) The timing on the displays was way off. It said the next streetcar was 3 minutes away for 10 minutes, then when it dropped to 2 minutes, the car appeared. I'm sure this can be expected as the system gets running and the kinks worked out, but I hope the streetcar team will keep an eye on this and ensure it's fixed. Reliability is the key to good public transportation.

4) I really hope this thing is successful, but I'm not sure people are going to pay to ride it after the free period ends. I think we need a lot more housing density downtown for this to really take off, so it's a good thing streetcars are a catalyst for more development.

[OKC Guy]

I take public transit everywhere I go and I can’t think of streetcars/commuter trains with TV screens (if that is what you are talking about... or are you just talking about advertising screens). The map and announcement seemed like enough info for me. Do you know of examples of cities that have digital screens in their cars?

Not on car but this is pretty cool in KC:

http://kcstreetcar.org/how-to-ride/arrival-times/

Want to know when the KC Streetcar will arrive at your nearest stop? Want to know if you have enough time to grab a coffee before boarding? Well now you can get live arrival streetcar feeds on your desktop, laptop, tablet, TV and phone for free.

Businesses – this is a great feature for your customers. Property owners – your residents and tenants would love this.

[dankrutka]

It would seem streetcars would be easier to predict than a bus, but I can watch a public bus roll up on the Google Maps app with high accuracy.

[Urban Pioneer]

It’s the !#!?*¥< traffic lights that are screwing up the accuracy of the delivery times and automated announcements. I spent a hour in our meeting debating it with city engineers and the “let’s wait and see” people. I’ll be at our Oversight Board tomorrow making the case for the $450,000 permanent fix again.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

Philadelphia's new fleet of commuter rail cars has monitors in their cars showing next stop, attraction. It also had safety tips and a few select ads.

[LocoAko]

It’s the !#!?*¥< traffic lights that are screwing up the accuracy of the delivery times and automated announcements. I spent a hour in our meeting debating it with city engineers and the “let’s wait and see” people. I’ll be at our Oversight Board tomorrow making the case for the $450,000 permanent fix again.

Thank you for all your advocacy and hard work. Fixing that issue alone would go a long way toward improving the system right off the bat.

[Urban Pioneer]

I posted this to The Lost Ogle, but it seems to be in perpetual moderation que, so I'll post it here as well. If I can't get traction on resolving these matters through the normal channels in which they should be addressed, I may ask posters to help out. It has a been a great pleasure serving our great city., but I am not going to take ownership of potentially flawed project because some people have their heads stuck in the sand. The risks to building even more public transit investments are too great.



A few things-

The streetcar is supposed to be the centerpiece of a true mass transit system that connects Norman, Moore, OKC, Edmond, Midwest City, and Del City together. It’s basically the device that you transfer to when you get to downtown OKC at Santa Fe Station to make your way to your final destination in the broader urban core. We started the project ten years ago and the voters endorsed it along with the other MAPS slate of projects at the time. The theory was and still is to have a follow-up vote that will further expand the mass transit system.

You're right about it currently being slow and a tad glitchy with the automated announcements. And that is because of the (*******) OKC traffic engineers who have had to be dragged into the 21st century realizing that there are now streetcars, pedestrians, bicyclists, and other modes that need movement accommodated in a “smart” way within our urban environments. I think they “get it” now but I am not sure they appreciate the urgency of permanently resolving the matter at EVERY intersection.

A public meeting today directly looked at the issues surrounding the “red light delays” and the problems that they are causing to streetcar reliability, timeliness, speed, and the automated announcements. A modest amount of money spent automating the traffic signals to sense the streetcars would permanently resolve the problem and dramatically improve performance. 21 additional traffic signals need sensors and upgraded communications nodes.

With all of that stated, as of today, we have had nearly 25,000 riders since Friday! That is an AMAZING result in such a short period of time. I personally have never seen the pedestrian activity to such an increased level in downtown. OKC.

There are people who would like some of us who serve to just enjoy the moment and cheer the project on without meaningful introspection. I’ve worked on it for ten years as a volunteer, thousands of hours of meetings, etc. I think it is a HUGE mistake not to immediately resolve the problems aforementioned by posters. We’re in good graces with the public right now. It IS a shiny new toy to be proud of for sure. But for it to function as a viable piece of the planned public transit system, it has to be reliable and timely. I will be aggressively advocating that quickly resolve the problems.

Assuming that MAPS City Staff will respect the majority opinion of its citizen Oversight Committee’s and the City Council will ratify the corrections we are recommending, only then, will I truly celebrate.
One final note, EMBARK is aggressively resolving issues within their means based on the feedback that we have received. We have a slate of items that were quickly identified after the system opened and we are working as a team between MAPS volunteers and City Staff to quickly resolve these issues. The traffic signals, however, will take some additional hutzpa to resolve in the coming months.

[5alive]

Thank you Thank you Thank you for your hard work!!! I imagine most of us on this board will be happy to do some arm twisting to help this project be the best it can be!

[yukong]

Second... This isn't really a problem with the streetcar itself, but I got to witness a dude wearing an Oklahoma Second Amendment Association t-shirt hop on at the Mickey Mantle stop and take a seat - and then I noticed he was carrying a Glock 17 and 6 magazines on his hip. He looked to be livestreaming himself, and was looking around all shady-like... it seemed pretty obvious to me he was intentionally trying to provoke and record a confrontation with transit staff. I'm not gonna lie, I straight up laughed at him because of the absurdity of the situation. I've got zero problem with carrying legally, but unless something changed I'm pretty sure it's not legal to carry on public transit vehicles in Oklahoma - and then I've got some personal opinions on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of broadcasting that you're carrying a firearm and the utility (or lack thereof) of carrying so many rounds. My laugh aside, his desire for a confrontation was wholly denied and he hopped off at the Ballpark stop without incident. I'm not sure what (if anything) can or should be done in those sorts of circumstances, but that was certainly a notable thing that happened.

The Second Amendment group (I think it is really just 2-3 people) have been going around to state offices with video cameras taking video. They try to get into restricted areas and then challenge security that since its a public building they have a right to be there. They have also been wearing guns in parks and other places essentially baiting law enforcement to take action. They are really trying to incite problems.

[dankrutka]

THANK YOU, URBAN PIONEER! Your efforts are appreciated.

[Johnb911]

Yeah I will double down on the thank you's to UP for all your work, and for your dedication to keeping everyone around these parts informed 'from the inside.' THANK YOU!

I do have a question that goes along with the streetcar timing. Is the eventual plan/goal/hope/dream/(?) to one day have these stops fairly scheduled? Where at a given stop I know there's going to be a car there every 7 minutes or something on weekdays and every 12 minutes on weekends and we can get to something like the picture below? Or is the plan to continue on as it's been set up (traffic lights notwithstanding) and you just have to go to a particular stop and check out the display to know when the next car will be there?

Again, thank you so much for all your work and dedication!

[Pryor Tiger]

I posted this to The Lost Ogle, but it seems to be in perpetual moderation que, so I'll post it here as well. If I can't get traction on resolving these matters through the normal channels in which they should be addressed, I may ask posters to help out. It has a been a great pleasure serving our great city., but I am not going to take ownership of potentially flawed project because some people have their heads stuck in the sand. The risks to building even more public transit investments are too great.



A few things-

The streetcar is supposed to be the centerpiece of a true mass transit system that connects Norman, Moore, OKC, Edmond, Midwest City, and Del City together. It’s basically the device that you transfer to when you get to downtown OKC at Santa Fe Station to make your way to your final destination in the broader urban core. We started the project ten years ago and the voters endorsed it along with the other MAPS slate of projects at the time. The theory was and still is to have a follow-up vote that will further expand the mass transit system.

You're right about it currently being slow and a tad glitchy with the automated announcements. And that is because of the (*******) OKC traffic engineers who have had to be dragged into the 21st century realizing that there are now streetcars, pedestrians, bicyclists, and other modes that need movement accommodated in a “smart” way within our urban environments. I think they “get it” now but I am not sure they appreciate the urgency of permanently resolving the matter at EVERY intersection.

A public meeting today directly looked at the issues surrounding the “red light delays” and the problems that they are causing to streetcar reliability, timeliness, speed, and the automated announcements. A modest amount of money spent automating the traffic signals to sense the streetcars would permanently resolve the problem and dramatically improve performance. 21 additional traffic signals need sensors and upgraded communications nodes.

With all of that stated, as of today, we have had nearly 25,000 riders since Friday! That is an AMAZING result in such a short period of time. I personally have never seen the pedestrian activity to such an increased level in downtown. OKC.

There are people who would like some of us who serve to just enjoy the moment and cheer the project on without meaningful introspection. I’ve worked on it for ten years as a volunteer, thousands of hours of meetings, etc. I think it is a HUGE mistake not to immediately resolve the problems aforementioned by posters. We’re in good graces with the public right now. It IS a shiny new toy to be proud of for sure. But for it to function as a viable piece of the planned public transit system, it has to be reliable and timely. I will be aggressively advocating that quickly resolve the problems.

Assuming that MAPS City Staff will respect the majority opinion of its citizen Oversight Committee’s and the City Council will ratify the corrections we are recommending, only then, will I truly celebrate.
One final note, EMBARK is aggressively resolving issues within their means based on the feedback that we have received. We have a slate of items that were quickly identified after the system opened and we are working as a team between MAPS volunteers and City Staff to quickly resolve these issues. The traffic signals, however, will take some additional hutzpa to resolve in the coming months.

UP - thank you. I agree we should celebrate, but also agree many will never pay for a ticket if they "believe" it will take them 2 hours to go to lunch or that every time they wait at a stop it will take 3 times as long as the number says. The signal priority should have been taken care of, not wait and see. It baffles me! This is killing the momentum of the cars down the track and gives the impression one could walk faster than riding the streetcar.

We have enough people in our city now that are "smart city" gurus, can we utilize them better? Would the engineers allow for more diverse input? I think they probably did during the last 9 years to some extent, but there are strategies and philosophies that could make our city an example for all and I feel like we may not get there for 40 years.

Lastly, the vision that has been set forth for mass transit and bike/walkability across the metro is amazing - we have to get this right.

[DoctorTaco]

It’s the !#!?*¥< traffic lights that are screwing up the accuracy of the delivery times and automated announcements. I spent a hour in our meeting debating it with city engineers and the “let’s wait and see” people. I’ll be at our Oversight Board tomorrow making the case for the $450,000 permanent fix again.

Is this a public meeting? Can I show up and advocate?