OKC Regional Transit System

[soonerheart]

The train goes through downtown Norman, within half a mile of campus corner, within four blocks of the stadium. OU and private developers are actively building out dense development toward the tracks on Boyd, Brooks, and Main...that is the definition of walkability. Regardless of your vision for future development of that area, the area between Jenkins and the tracks is being targeted for both dense residential development and further campus development. Both private developers and the university have been picking up lots in the area for years now and you can see some of the results of that with the new apartments on Brooks and Trout. The next part to go to residential development will be Page Circle.

What's limited would be the feasibility of even building train tracks to the location you suggested. It just makes zero sense in any way. For one, there is no where to put it and two, it would be cost prohibitive with limited benefit, and three, It would take up space that the university is surely saving for a higher use than parking eventually. Game day or general commuter trains would also at least need the ability in the future to run south to south Norman, Purcell, Pauls Valley, and Ardmore. A two block spur would make it unnecessarily more difficult and time consuming to add a southern route. There is already a University bus stop within a stones throw of the train tracks on Brooks...it's like the University was preparing for the future development of that location...

No! The feasibility of building train tracks to the location I’m suggested is very highly feasible with proper engineering …It’s really very elementary and very straight forward…

Since this would incorporate a large parking garage…. the largest increased cost would be the elevated spur to the second floor…
This is a 50 to 100 year decision…it’s well worth the additional cost of doing this right from the very start.

[PhiAlpha]

No! The feasibility of building train tracks to the location I’m suggested is very highly feasible with proper engineering …It’s really very elementary and very straight forward…

Since this would incorporate a large parking garage…. the largest increased cost would be the elevated spur to the second floor…
This is a 50 to 100 year decision…it’s well worth the additional cost of doing this right from the very start.

Though in 50-100 years the campus and density will probably extend east of the tracks making the current train route more central and further south which would create a larger need for the train to run south of the stadium. It seems like creating a spur would make running it south more difficult. That just seems like a ton of extra work with very little benefit.

[citywokchinesefood]

Though in 50-100 years the campus and density will probably extend east of the tracks making the current train route more central and further south which would create a larger need for the train to run south of the stadium. It seems like creating a spur would make running it south more difficult. That just seems like a ton of extra work with very little benefit.

I think it is more likely that the campus continues south rather than east across the train tracks. The university already owns the land and I just don't see them using up all of their available space even in the long term.

[soonerheart]

Though in 50-100 years the campus and density will probably extend east of the tracks making the current train route more central and further south which would create a larger need for the train to run south of the stadium. It seems like creating a spur would make running it south more difficult. That just seems like a ton of extra work with very little benefit.

There are other train stations with this configuration. They pull into the station from the main line then go back to the main line before proceeding…But in this case, most travel for events would center on the OU station….Placing any train station as close to the center of activity... including for everyday use is desirable in virtually all situations. We have the ability to do this.

There is very limited land to the east…Good luck converting the Duck Pond land into an area for major development.

Most of the available OU land sits on the south end of campus at or near OU's research park…For now they could be serviced by busses…. But the goal is to see OU research expanded by large amounts. Eventually a N/S monorail or light rail system from this part of campus to my proposed train station may be considered. It's far better if this stops near my proposed site than if the station is along the current tracks.

I suppose if we had enough capacity that a special south bound train may be feasible. I have spoken with OU people from Ardmore and Purcell who said they would use a special OU event train. The Nobel foundation is full of OU friendly people…Perhaps they would buy the south bound train?

[hoya]

I think Lincoln would take that criticism pretty well. If he's anything like the team, he'd certainly have a hard time getting defensive over it.

[dankrutka]

You do understand there are hard limits to how long people can stay outdoors when the weather is not near perfect.

We want them staying at the game as long as possible…We want maximized ridership for everyday use and to not cause people to waste their valuable time. We need to minimize peoples walk in bad weather.

Interesting argument. I don't know where to start... Do we start by asking more about this outdoor "hard limit" people must obey? Do people pack up and leave mid-2nd quarter? "Sorry, everyone. Just hit the hard limit. I must now find indoor docking station." Or should we discuss the argument that people taking a train are somehow wasting "their valuable time," but people in gridlocked traffic are apparently living their best possible life? Finally, the real concern here is the desperate social need to "minimize peoples walk in bad weather" because we all know how walkers can melt and freeze... or just hit their outdoor time "hard limit."

I'm just kidding around, soonerheart. No hard feelings.

[soonerheart]

Interesting argument. I don't know where to start... Do we start by asking more about this outdoor "hard limit" people must obey? Do people pack up and leave mid-2nd quarter? "Sorry, everyone. Just hit the hard limit. I must now find indoor docking station." Or should we discuss the argument that people taking a train are somehow wasting "their valuable time," but people in gridlocked traffic are apparently living their best possible life? Finally, the real concern here is the desperate social need to "minimize peoples walk in bad weather" because we all know how walkers can melt and freeze... or just hit their outdoor time "hard limit."

I'm just kidding around, soonerheart. No hard feelings.

Having worked outside with healthy people in some of the most extreme cold and wind that can be found on the mid great plains I can tell you the hard limits are different for different people and that this is self-determined by smart preparation, desire and the ability to tolerate discomfort….Wasting time outside in bad weather while not on task cuts into the amount of time on task..... As people age most eventually have lower and lower hard time limits even in good WX. Many people still in their 30’s & 40’s be hitting their hard limits quicker than they known…It sneaks up on everybody before they are ready.

It’s important to note for the sake of OU that it’s the older people who usually have the most money to spend or donate. Keeping them happy always seems smart.

Some of the northern stadiums have heated areas and or have enclosed their stadium areas below and heat them. Some have heated fields....Others who have high heat problems sometimes have fans & misters. OU has added cooling stations this season which were largely ineffective IMHO…

If you learn them and park in a smart spot you can find your way out of the football congestion with relative ease …Because I know the shortcuts and because of where I park it takes me about 5 more minutes than normal to drive home on a OU game day. I have a reserved spot near clean restrooms about 400 to 500 yards from the stadium. I will be fine with my personal logistics but this isn’t about me.

[mugofbeer]

Yeah, we have a pretty healthy mix in our area on the east side but I would guess it's an even distribution between about 25-55 all of which stand for most of the game.

My Dad attended and stood until he was 88. He walked from parking in the Campus Corner area and never complained until he had a stroke. I'm 60 and do the same, and have gone to games since l was 7-8. I have no problem standing but l now think about it and feel it. 20 years ago, l never gave it a thought. Walking from the duck pond station would be a joy. There are ricksha's (not sure how to spell) if need be and my Dad would have been happy to use one if he needed. Being in that stadium is truly one of my happy-places. Some of my most and least favorite memories come from being in school and being in that stadium. I would give anything if my Dad could be here to enjoy it again. Sorry for getting off track.

[PaddyShack]

I think those hard limits are different when it comes to being in the elements for work versus being outside for fun. OU games seem like fun and places people want to be regardless of weather, so I just don't see why these hard limits are even a thing.

Also, you speak of the elderly as needing to be kept happy. Most of those who donate probably already have their close parking spot, so the train is not for them. The train is for those of us, like me, who will never have a parking spot so close. The train might even help alleviate traffic stress making game day better for all involved. When looking at Google Maps of the Duck Pond area, the walk is not that great. Most people using the train would have to walk that distance, if not more for parking.

I have been given the opportunity twice this season to go to an OU game, once for homecoming and once for bedlam. I declined because I did not want to deal with traffic in and out of Norman nor the parking hassles. If there was a game day train, I would have snatched these in a heartbeat.

[soonerheart]

I think those hard limits are different when it comes to being in the elements for work versus being outside for fun. OU games seem like fun and places people want to be regardless of weather, so I just don't see why these hard limits are even a thing.

Also, you speak of the elderly as needing to be kept happy. Most of those who donate probably already have their close parking spot, so the train is not for them. The train is for those of us, like me, who will never have a parking spot so close. The train might even help alleviate traffic stress making game day better for all involved. When looking at Google Maps of the Duck Pond area, the walk is not that great. Most people using the train would have to walk that distance, if not more for parking.

I have been given the opportunity twice this season to go to an OU game, once for homecoming and once for bedlam. I declined because I did not want to deal with traffic in and out of Norman nor the parking hassles. If there was a game day train, I would have snatched these in a heartbeat.

I believe almost all of us can agree that a train would help OU attendance, reduce congestion and help with everyday needs….

The question I have is to what degree and what current and future OU development could be enhanced by the location of a train station if its located in a large new parking garage that OU already desires. This location is close to the stadium and other important destinations.

The hard limits are different depending on the activity and conditions but they are still very real….Many people leave games early because of exposure to heat & cold…..but as you suggest some leave early or don’t even attend because of traffic….Many people don’t know the quicker ways out of town on a game day.

[soonerheart]

This is a follow up to the potential new OU Basketball arena location.

One of the desires of the I-35 Rock Creek arena location was to have an entertainment district built nearby.

Building a new arena on the NE corner of Jenkins and Brooks is within walking distance of Campus Corner, and the OU Student Union. They already have most of the desired entertainment options. This saves a large amount of money in development cost and allows the I-35 Rock Creek land to be used for other projects. People who say they don’t like urban sprawl should like this.

Building the train station just to the south of a new arena in a large parking garage that OU wants to build anyway, along with other parking options solves many of the logistical problems that have been complained about .

It’s also within walking distance for students living in the dorms, most Greek houses and some of the nearby apartments. The Cart Buses and shuttles could operate out of the bottom floor of the new proposed parking garage/ train station.

[GoGators]

I don't know much about Norman or the campus layout, but from looking at google maps it looks like you are wanting a spur to move the station ~1200ft closer to the stadium? Am i understanding this correctly? I do not think that would be necessary at all unless i am missing something.

[soonerheart]

I don't know much about Norman or the campus layout, but from looking at google maps it looks like you are wanting a spur to move the station ~1200ft closer to the stadium? Am i understanding this correctly? I do not think that would be necessary at all unless i am missing something.

It would be located in a large new parking garage that OU wants to build anyway.

It would be more capable of handling large events and offer a far larger area of substantial shelter with heat / AC and restrooms.
The needed utilities such as steam and chilled water are close by this location.

[soonerheart]

The trains are going to need service and mechanical attention somewhere….

Why not do this in part of the parking garage building….This building would also offer trains protection against our large hail and other weather hazards.

[Hutch]

RTA UPDATE

Oklahoma City voted unanimously (Councilmember Salyer was absent) today to approve the RTA Trust Indenture.



Del City voted to approve the trust indenture last night.

Still remaining...Midwest City votes next week...Moore votes the first week of December.

[mugofbeer]

No! The feasibility of building train tracks to the location I’m suggested is very highly feasible with proper engineering …It’s really very elementary and very straight forward…

Since this would incorporate a large parking garage…. the largest increased cost would be the elevated spur to the second floor…
This is a 50 to 100 year decision…it’s well worth the additional cost of doing this right from the very start.

If there was a firm commitment to build the commuter rail, l bet the RTA could solicit a builder to construct a station and parking garage FOR the RTA in exchange for being approved to build a condo/apt/office/retail/hotel complex around it.

[mugofbeer]

The trains are going to need service and mechanical attention somewhere….

Why not do this in part of the parking garage building….This building would also offer trains protection against our large hail and other weather hazards.

Judging from the maintenance buildings for Denvers rail system, you need a larger building and a switch yard for extra cars

[the michigander]

I know y'all rail but their needs to be buses as well as rail even moreso.

[citywokchinesefood]

I know y'all rail but their needs to be buses as well as rail even moreso.

The advantage of adding rail is it allows the bus lines to be optimized for shorter routes with more frequency. The goal of the RTA is to create an intermodal network that better serves the public.

[Hutch]

The advantage of adding rail is it allows the bus lines to be optimized for shorter routes with more frequency. The goal of the RTA is to create an intermodal network that better serves the public.

Exactly. The RTA is not all about trains.

The RTA and future regional transit system would provide a greatly expanded bus system serving the entire regional transit district. While rail transit excites the public and drives support and development of most regional transit systems, bus transit remains the backbone of those systems. Without an extensive bus system providing connectivity to and from rail stations, rail transit is much less effective and ridership suffers. That’s why bus system expansion is the first step in the development of any new regional transit system. As a result, bus system ridership soars, as bus transit service reaches thousands of more riders who were not previously being effectively served by the old system.

I like to use Salt Lake City's regional transit system as a great model for OKC to emulate. Shortly after Salt Lake began operations of its first rail transit line in 1999, bus and rail ridership soared to nearly 29 million annual riders. Now, twenty years later with an extensive bus, light rail, commuter rail, streetcar and BRT regional system, Salt Lake's ridership is approaching 50 million annually. Here are the 2016 numbers:

System
125 bus routes - 484 buses - 6196 active bus stops
1 bus rapid transit line
3 light rail lines
1 commuter rail line - 89 miles - 16 stations
1 streetcar line

Average Daily Weekday Boardings
Bus - 46,373
Rail - 78,489

Annual System Ridership
45,572,702

Here's the UTA system map for Salt Lake County showing the extensive bus network overlain on the commuter rail, light rail and streetcar lines.



If it's a great bus system you want, it's a great bus system you'll get with an RTA and regional transit system.

[Hutch]

Great editorial...

Journal Record Editorial: Is Middle America ready for commuter rail?

[Hutch]

RTA UPDATE

Midwest City voted unanimously to approve the RTA Trust Indenture last night. Five cities in...one to go.

Moore City Council votes next week. If you're a transit supporter and you live in Moore, please contact your City Council representative and ask for their support.

[Jeepnokc]

Forgive me if this has been answered but is there some reason Mustang, El Reno and Yukon aren't involved? Seems a line west would be beneficial

[amocore]

Forgive me if this has been answered but is there some reason Mustang, El Reno and Yukon aren't involved? Seems a line west would be beneficial

From what I heard and read, the cities itself where not interested as their population density is still very low.

Somebody else will be able to give you more information.

[shawnw]

They were included/invited, but opted out at this time.