Streetcar

[ABCOKC]

This is a pretty awful attitude. You might have to share a car with someone who doesn't have the luxury of a regular place to bathe and wash clothes? These look like big enough cars. Most of the regular downtown OKC homeless folks pretty much stay to themselves and don't bother anyone.

Lol yeah, if the streetcar is not a pleasant environment, i.e. if there are foul-smelling people on it, I won't be riding it.

Congratulations on being so progressive that you'll subject yourself to that though.

[ABCOKC]

"The Chariot of the People" is what they call mass transit.

In general, a big part of the divide in this country is because we don't interact with each other, especially those different than us. And it's exactly why I've always loved public transportation.

Have you ever ridden public transit in a major metro? I would hardly say that people on the Chicago L 'interact with each other'. More like aggressively ignore each other (and I wouldn't have it any other way), or occasionally be harassed by a drunken slob. All I can say is that riding public transportation in Chicago has lowered my opinion of the people here significantly.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is a pretty awful attitude. You might have to share a car with someone who doesn't have the luxury of a regular place to bathe and wash clothes? These look like big enough cars. Most of the regular downtown OKC homeless folks pretty much stay to themselves and don't bother anyone.

It is not an awful attitude at all. That is entirely your opinion. What isn’t an opinion is the fact that we have senses for a reason and isn’t unreasonable to think that someone who smells bad is not practicing good hygiene and therefore being a potential health hazard. Why do you think we have a sense of smell? Just to feel good?

[Plutonic Panda]

Have you ever ridden public transit in a major metro? I would hardly say that people on the Chicago L 'interact with each other'. More like aggressively ignore each other (and I wouldn't have it any other way), or occasionally be harassed by a drunken slob. All I can say is that riding public transportation in Chicago has lowered my opinion of the people here significantly.

Same thing in LA. Rarely do you see people interacting with each other unless they’re already in a group or know each other.

[dankrutka]

Dan, I know you’re a very intelligent and fact based guy, however, I promise you that “shipping” the homeless to other cities is a real thing.

I’ve never said whether it is or isn’t. I’ve asked for evidence of a city that has a policy of “shipping” homeless people to specific other cities. It’s been weeks and no one has provided any evidence. Feel free to support your claim with evidence...

[sooner88]

I’ve never said whether it is or isn’t. I’ve asked for evidence of a city that has a policy of “shipping” homeless people to specific other cities. It’s been weeks and no one has provided any evidence. Feel free to support your claim with evidence...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-country-study

[jerrywall]

There's a difference between the idea that cities are rounding up homeless and just busing them off to other cities (which doesn't seem to happen), and programs in cities where they arrange for bus tickets for homeless residents on a case by case basis to get into situations where they have shelter and help (and possibly a job) waiting for them. Obviously, as is mentioned in the article, the solution isn't perfect. But it's more often than not about getting people home.

[sooner88]

There's a difference between the idea that cities are rounding up homeless and just busing them off to other cities (which doesn't seem to happen), and programs in cities where they arrange for bus tickets for homeless residents on a case by case basis to get into situations where they have shelter and help (and possibly a job) waiting for them. Obviously, as is mentioned in the article, the solution isn't perfect. But it's more often than not about getting people home.

Right, but it was interesting that in some examples the shelters made them sign a contract stating they were banned from returning to that specific shelter for life.

[dankrutka]

Right, but it was interesting that in some examples the shelters made them sign a contract stating they were banned from returning to that specific shelter for life.

Yes, as jerrywall said, this optional bus ticket policy had already been discussed. But, making homeless person agree not to return to a certain place is highly unethical.

[OKC Guy]

People will be afraid to ride the street car because a homeless person might be on?

Good.

I'd rather sit next to a homeless person than the person afraid of the homeless person.

I think your choice of words is wrong. I don’t know of anyone afraid, rather its the worry of health hazards. People do not want to be around smelly people its a simple fact. The smell sends a signal to the brain to get away from it. Its a natural reaction and is directed at the offense not the person. The person just happens to be the one carrying it.

On one hand a lot of taxpayer money was spent and by all accounts we need this streetcar to work. To do so requires riders. Anything that keeps riders away is a bad thing for this high cost outlay.

I think you are making this about pity rather than reality. Most people would love to see the homeless get help. And there are so many ways for them to do so yet most do not. They have places to get showers. So imo the city does need to screen for this. To be honest good samaritons have enabled homeless problem by giving them handouts at corners and that causes them to come back. Otherwise they would go to agencies designed to help them in a shorter and onger term way. When we keep handing them money they never get to see professional help to help fix addictions and other problems.

Back on topic to be successful we will need no distractions by riders to make this work. Just one time a person goes on the SC and deals with a foul smelling person asking for money or loitering they will never go back again. And all the out of town visiters will have their lasting impression of OKC in a very negative way.

So as you can read its not about being “afraid” its much much deeper than that if you look at the bigger picture.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ +1

[dankrutka]

First, can we quit stereotyping all homeless people as one type of person? ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS DO NOT SMELL. People are homeless are incredibly diverse in experiences, status, etc. I know plenty of non-homeless people who smell. I don't have a car and travel on public transportation regularly: I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ANY HOMELESS PERSON FOR ANY REASON... EVER. I am not saying no one has ever had a problem. But, if someone really does smell (whoever they are), you are allowed to move seats. Accusing homeless people for killing streetcar ridership before it opens really takes some creativity.

Second, these stereotypes about homeless people just not getting the help they need is some B.S. People who are homeless are homeless for a wide array of reasons. Many take advantage of services provided. Many find stability over time. Some do not, partially because the United States has completly failed as a country in providing support for people with mental health disorders. FOR MANY HOMELESS PEOPLE, THERE IS NO SUPPORT SYSTEM. A lot of people who are homeless suffer from schizophrenia and some shuttle in and out of jail because our country is failing when compared to peer countries. It's a disgrace on our country, not on people who are homeless.

In the end, I refuse to see my fellow human beings as a "problem" in my life, especially when I live with so much privilege. Yet, posters in this thread are imagining problems that don't even exist yet as a way to theoretically start discussions of where to exclude them from in our society. We can do better than this conversation.

[mugofbeer]

I’ve never said whether it is or isn’t. I’ve asked for evidence of a city that has a policy of “shipping” homeless people to specific other cities. It’s been weeks and no one has provided any evidence. Feel free to support your claim with evidence...

This is what I've posted on other threads. No offense meant Dan but , especially if the person tells you where the info is found. Find it yourself if you don't believe someone. It takes 2 seconds to open another browser, activate your choice of search engine, and type in Bussing the Homeless to Other Cities. You`'ll find all the articles you could want that outline city sponsored programs to bus homeless - not just to where they say they have family, but where they will agree to go to just leave.
Please be aware that some of us use our phones on here and can't provide links so we may tell you where to find info.

[mugofbeer]

Have you ever ridden public transit in a major metro? I would hardly say that people on the Chicago L 'interact with each other'. More like aggressively ignore each other (and I wouldn't have it any other way), or occasionally be harassed by a drunken slob. All I can say is that riding public transportation in Chicago has lowered my opinion of the people here significantly.

I've ridden the light rail and busses in Denver and Dallas for years and have never had or seen a problem with a homeless person on one. They generally get on, keep to themselves, and get off. What l have seen many times are little bandana wearing snot nosed gangsta wanna-bees jiving around to music and loudly cussing up a storm to their friends. I've heard them verbally abusing their girlfriends and nearly fight people who confront them. I even saw a very large guy throw one of these little loud mouths physically off the light rail, at a stop, because he was so foul. You'll see a lot more trouble from this type than homeless.
The one complaint l have in Denver is insufficient police and security making sure people have paid their fares and behave. Otherwise, the light rail is wonderful

[David]

This is what I've posted on other threads. No offense meant Dan but , especially if the person tells you where the info is found. Find it yourself if you don't believe someone. It takes 2 seconds to open another browser, activate your choice of search engine, and type in Bussing the Homeless to Other Cities. You`'ll find all the articles you could want that outline city sponsored programs to bus homeless - not just to where they say they have family, but where they will agree to go to just leave.
Please be aware that some of us use our phones on here and can't provide links so we may tell you where to find info.

Telling someone it is easy to find evidence without actually providing that evidence is tiresome to watch. If it's so easy to do so, then do so and share your work with the class.

[Ross MacLochness]

And there are so many ways for them to do so yet most do not. They have places to get showers... ...To be honest good samaritons have enabled homeless problem by giving them handouts at corners and that causes them to come back. Otherwise they would go to agencies designed to help them in a shorter and onger term way. When we keep handing them money they never get to see professional help to help fix addictions and other problems.
.

I'd like to chime in on this and say that most homeless actually don't have a place they can go to get quality long term help as most homeless have mental problems. We simply don't have facilities or resources for these folks and so they don't get help. Many other homeless folks have drug and alcohol problems which preclude them from entering shelters or using services. On top of all that we have shelters that are religiously affiliated and require folks to practice that same faith (from what I understand, could be wrong about this last point).

That being said, I also don't want the streetcars to be rolling shelters. But hope that folks of all walks of life can enjoy and feel comfortable riding them.

[Urban Pioneer]

So good news, painting crosswalks with better paint commenced on Robinson yesterday around the Law School. We are aggressively painting crosswalks and bike lanes. One of the most notable locations is the 4th and Robinson stop next to Bank of Oklahoma motorbank. Bike lanes are isolated there as part of our stop design.

Also, after some negotiating, EMBARK is aggressively pursuing resolving the lighting issues in attempt to have them resolved ahead of the opening.

Feel free to reach out to me if you see other things that need to be addressed within reason.- Jeff

[Urban Pioneer]

I am also pursuing organizing a public forum after we open sometime next year to receive feedback and discuss system expansion from the public.

[hoya]

I'd like to chime in on this and say that most homeless actually don't have a place they can go to get quality long term help as most homeless have mental problems. We simply don't have facilities or resources for these folks and so they don't get help. Many other homeless folks have drug and alcohol problems which preclude them from entering shelters or using services. On top of all that we have shelters that are religiously affiliated and require folks to practice that same faith (from what I understand, could be wrong about this last point).

That being said, I also don't want the streetcars to be rolling shelters. But hope that folks of all walks of life can enjoy and feel comfortable riding them.

From my experience in representing a lot of these homeless people, the shelters won't let you stay there if you're actively using alcohol or drugs. You can stay at the shelter or you can use meth, your choice. And once somebody is kicked out for use, there's a period of time that has to pass before the shelter will let them back in (I don't recall how long, I think it's a few weeks). This can really catch somebody in a bad place if the weather suddenly turns bad. The religious shelters usually requires people to attend some kind of service, but as far as I know you don't have to be a church member or anything.

[CloudDeckMedia]

I'd like to chime in on this and say that most homeless actually don't have a place they can go to get quality long term help as most homeless have mental problems. We simply don't have facilities or resources for these folks and so they don't get help. Many other homeless folks have drug and alcohol problems which preclude them from entering shelters or using services.

Until a few decades ago we DID have facilities to care for the mentally ill and those addicted to drugs & alcohol. A handful were bad, but instead of fixing those few, "institutionalization" became a bad word, and virtually all of them were shut down without creating a better solution. Now these people are living under bridges or in jails, and receive NO care.

[dankrutka]

This is what I've posted on other threads. No offense meant Dan but , especially if the person tells you where the info is found. Find it yourself if you don't believe someone. It takes 2 seconds to open another browser, activate your choice of search engine, and type in Bussing the Homeless to Other Cities. You`'ll find all the articles you could want that outline city sponsored programs to bus homeless - not just to where they say they have family, but where they will agree to go to just leave.
Please be aware that some of us use our phones on here and can't provide links so we may tell you where to find info.

I get your point, but I disagree that it is my responsibility to find evidence for other people's claims. I did not make the claim that cities had "shipping" programs to other specific cities. I will provide evidence for my own claims though. Here are the Google page results for the search, "city programs to ship homeless away": https://www.google.com/search?source...99.YTTMYQZF5y0 I'm pretty busy so I just had time to do a cursory scan of these articles. Two seconds was not enough time and just this quick scan required over 10 minutes. While there are clearly many "homeward bound" or "free ticket" programs, I have not yet found a program where, for example, Dallas has a policy of "shipping" homeless people to Oklahoma City. That's the claim that was made. I think that's fair.

[LocoAko]

Probably not novel to most here, but I finally got to see the streetcars out in action being tested today. Super cool.

[shawnw]

I keep forgetting to mention it, but I'm super glad we're doubling up the OCS poles as light poles in some areas, like AA.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

I keep forgetting to mention it, but I'm super glad we're doubling up the OCS poles as light poles in some areas, like AA.

^^ Agree, it helps out. 4th St is now dark, especially in front of the new stop. Hopefully they replace what was removed, like UP mentioned above.

[Laramie]

EMBARK officials prepare for beginning of streetcar system in downtown OKC