Ideas 4 MAPS

[OKCRT]

An ownership group made up of World Wide Technology CEO Jim Kavanaugh and the Taylor family of Enterprise Holdings is seeking a franchise from Major League Soccer and plans a a $250 million, 20,000-seat stadium west of Union Station.

I pulled this off an article I was reading about Stl MLS soccer stadium. 250 mil and that doesn't include the land. The owners are footing the bill BTW. They are seeking some tax credits on materials and such in the range of 30 mil.

[David]

West of Union Station? So, in the area of the Strawberry Fields theoretical development?

[Pete]

West of Union Station? So, in the area of the Strawberry Fields theoretical development?

Union Station in St. Louis, not OKC.

[David]

That makes much more sense.

[d-usa]

Came across this on Facebook today, posted by Citizens Against The Alliance for Economic Development. I’m not sure if it’s been posted before.

[David]

It has been, and people interpreted it in vastly different ways as per their pre-existing biases.

[Midtowner]

Came across this on Facebook today, posted by Citizens Against The Alliance for Economic Development. I’m not sure if it’s been posted before.

Tough to know whether it's authentic. But if it is, the subject seems interesting. I've supported every MAPS proposal. I volunteered for the MAPS III campaign. If this next MAPS includes a soccer stadium, I'm going to have a hard time supporting it.

[shawnw]

I'm pretty sure the mayor himself chimed in on this in this thread.

[aDark]

I'm pretty sure the mayor himself chimed in on this in this thread.

Oh you mean Steven Hunt?

[TheSteveHunt]

Tough to know whether it's authentic. But if it is, the subject seems interesting. I've supported every MAPS proposal. I volunteered for the MAPS III campaign. If this next MAPS includes a soccer stadium, I'm going to have a hard time supporting it.

of course it's real.

[jonny d]

Whatever makes OKC seem the worst is obviously what's real, amirite?

[Laramie]

Mayor Holt has addressed this forum. He has indicated that he's anxious to work with the Funks & McLaughlin on a stadium. Let's not get ahead of ourselves by getting into a box about sinking the whole ship if just one item appears on the ballot that you don't support.

Continue to submit your ideas; participate in the process, allow it go thru its stages--remember everyone's not going to get everything they want.

[OKCRT]

Mayor Holt has addressed this forum. He has indicated that he's anxious to work with the Funks & McLaughlin on a stadium. Let's not get ahead of ourselves by getting into a box about sinking the whole ship if just one item appears on the ballot that you don't support.

Continue to submit your ideas; participate in the process, allow it go thru its stages--remember everyone's not going to get everything they want.

Right. But is it the tax payers place to pay for a soccer stadium? Seems like in other cities the owner (that makes money on their team) are the ones paying these days. How many people actually attend these games? And they could have several great things that most people want and then add a soccer stadium in that a small number of folks want? Stadiums are very expensive and even a small minor league stadium that seats 10k prob gonna run 100 mil at least.

[baralheia]

Right. But is it the tax payers place to pay for a soccer stadium? Seems like in other cities the owner (that makes money on their team) are the ones paying these days. How many people actually attend these games? And they could have several great things that most people want and then add a soccer stadium in that a small number of folks want? Stadiums are very expensive and even a small minor league stadium that seats 10k prob gonna run 100 mil at least.

I think it's in the City's best interest to have a hand in the construction of major sports facilities, to be honest with you. Both the 'Peake and the Bricktown Ballpark were publicly funded and both have added significantly to our economy via their tenants. Such an arrangement allows the City more discretion in how the facility is used, especially for temporary uses. I see no valid reason why the City shouldn't or couldn't fund a soccer-specific stadium, even if only partially.

[Laramie]

Right. But is it the tax payers place to pay for a soccer stadium? Seems like in other cities the owner (that makes money on their team) are the ones paying these days. How many people actually attend these games? And they could have several great things that most people want and then add a soccer stadium in that a small number of folks want? Stadiums are very expensive and even a small minor league stadium that seats 10k prob gonna run 100 mil at least.

We provided a $210 million arena with upgrades for the NBA Thunder, it included a $10 million practice facility; $34 million minor league baseball stadium for the PCL valued at $51 million in today's market dollars. Remodeled Civic Center Music Hall for $50 million for OKC Symphony, events & shows. We spent $20 million in incentives to lure Bass Pro Shops. These are quality-of-life venues that make a city attractive for future business & commerce growth.

USL Rio Grande Valley Toros FC/University of Texas Rio Grande Valley built their 10,000-seat stadium for $35 million, private-public funded partnership: https://hebparkrgv.com/

Louisville: https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2018...expansion-bid/

OKC has land with infrastructure at State Fair Park or on the Oklahoma riverfront which could lessen the cost below $25 million--the amount we spent to remodel Taft Stadium. We would have room for expansion on city-owned land if MLS becomes an option.

Either you want minor league soccer or not. Taft Stadium will no longer be an option after 2020.

[Laramie]

There were numerous threads established on OKCTalk; many of you participated:

MAPS 4: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=MAPS+4

MAPS 4 Plan? Shadid proposes shift in focus to fund city services: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=MAPS+4

Maps 4 Neighborhoods: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=MAPS+4

Poll: OKCTalk sponsored MAPS 4 Neighborhoods event: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=MAPS+4

MAP IV (Oklahoma City 2017) possible extension date: December 2017 : http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...rastructure%3A

MAPS 4 Infrastructure: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...rastructure%3A

Maps IV: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=MAPS+4

Ideas 4 MAPS; submit ideas to: https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-4

[hoya]

In the last week or two, I've seen several comments from people talking about how the RTA probably won't get off the ground for quite some time. Things like "these programs take decades to get running" and "this is the first step to getting commuter rail someday". David Holt was one of the people making comments like this.

Their choice of phrasing makes me think that we are nowhere close to actually having a vote on an RTA tax. I was cautious about the city having to pitch a streetcar extension and a commuter rail program close in time to one another. Too much potential for confusion. But if they aren't looking at getting moving on the RTA for another 10 years, we need to look at major streetcar expansion NOW.

It needs to be like 50% of MAPS 4.

[Dob Hooligan]

I can’t imagine any expansion of the streetcar being a part of MAPS 4. Permanent projects like that take 5 years before changes happen: 3 years to observe function and durability, and 2 years for planning and “pre selling”.

[gopokes88]

In the last week or two, I've seen several comments from people talking about how the RTA probably won't get off the ground for quite some time. Things like "these programs take decades to get running" and "this is the first step to getting commuter rail someday". David Holt was one of the people making comments like this.

Their choice of phrasing makes me think that we are nowhere close to actually having a vote on an RTA tax. I was cautious about the city having to pitch a streetcar extension and a commuter rail program close in time to one another. Too much potential for confusion. But if they aren't looking at getting moving on the RTA for another 10 years, we need to look at major streetcar expansion NOW.

It needs to be like 50% of MAPS 4.

God forbid they take time and careful planning on something they have a literal one shot at doing right

[Richard at Remax]

I think the city was wise in having their hands in the baseball stadium and CHK Arena. It's obvious for the thunder, but the usage rate for baseball games is also incredibly high. 80 days a year the baseball stadium is being used. minimum 41 for the thunder not including playoffs and all the concerts.

Investing in a soccer stadium would be tough because of the low usage rate. Energy only had 17 home games with an average of 4298 (which is extremely generous). They had an interest in Taft because of it being used for football games too. If it's under $30 million for a small stadium then I would probably be on board. even more on board that if it expanded the owners pay for expansion. I just can't see the city really investing in a venue that only has 17 minimum nights booked with an extremely sub-par talent league.

[PaddyShack]

I think the city was wise in having their hands in the baseball stadium and CHK Arena. It's obvious for the thunder, but the usage rate for baseball games is also incredibly high. 80 days a year the baseball stadium is being used. minimum 41 for the thunder not including playoffs and all the concerts.

Investing in a soccer stadium would be tough because of the low usage rate. Energy only had 17 home games with an average of 4298 (which is extremely generous). They had an interest in Taft because of it being used for football games too. If it's under $30 million for a small stadium then I would probably be on board. even more on board that if it expanded the owners pay for expansion. I just can't see the city really investing in a venue that only has 17 minimum nights booked with an extremely sub-par talent league.

Woah there, the talent in USL is not as bad as you put it. I agree that the owners should be funding the majority, if not the entire stadium. But to say the talent is "sub-par" is just not true. The Energy had 3 players capped for international duty this past year, with two still being capped in this past international spell. The league itself draws players from many nations other than the US, with many young players going onto to MLS and other top leagues in their home nations. Just because the USL is the second division doesn't mean it is sub-par. If the US had an open system I would bet that 3 or 4 of the current USL teams would definitely be in the MLS right now. The USL exists because not everybody can play in the MLS. There are some great clubs in the USL and the league is working on making a true pyramid system that would allow clubs to get into better competitions as they grow. I know the USL isn't on TV all of the time, but all games are on ESPN+ with some games on ESPN2 or what not.

[jedicurt]

Woah there, the talent in USL is not as bad as you put it. I agree that the owners should be funding the majority, if not the entire stadium. But to say the talent is "sub-par" is just not true. The Energy had 3 players capped for international duty this past year, with two still being capped in this past international spell. The league itself draws players from many nations other than the US, with many young players going onto to MLS and other top leagues in their home nations. Just because the USL is the second division doesn't mean it is sub-par. If the US had an open system I would bet that 3 or 4 of the current USL teams would definitely be in the MLS right now. The USL exists because not everybody can play in the MLS. There are some great clubs in the USL and the league is working on making a true pyramid system that would allow clubs to get into better competitions as they grow. I know the USL isn't on TV all of the time, but all games are on ESPN+ with some games on ESPN2 or what not.

you are arguing with walls when you try and make these types of statements... if it isn't top league, then people here just dont want to care... i tried to bring up the same Argument about the AHL... and there have now been 1 players from the Barons who have gone on to play significant time in Stanley Cup playoff games... and 4 play in Stanley Cup Final games (and another was a backup goalie, so didn't play)... but alas... it was the sub-par league with sub-par talent

[Richard at Remax]

The NBA is the best of the best. AAA Baseball is probably the 2nd best talent. AHL hockey was probably 3rd to 5th. I remember when the NHL had it's lockout and the Barons might have had the best team in the world for a month or so. Those games we're awesome and the attendance was pretty solid.

Where does MLS land? Is it even in top 10 leagues in the world? In the USL there are some good players here and there but as a whole it's very lacking.

It reminds me of pro golf. Obviously the best of the best are on the PGA tour. Then you have web.com, mackenzie tour, ect. Those golfers int he smaller tours are scratch golfers and would thump any of us. But the tournaments crowds and purses pretty small. People want to see the best of the best.

The Energy are, for the most part, cheap family fun. But you can't fault someone for not wanting to spend $$$ to go see them when the overall talent level just isn't there.

[Laramie]

Don't think for one moment if Oklahoma City builds a soccer specific stadium that it will be used for only 17 days; city needs to build something to get the ball rolling. A city-owned venue will allow the city to have more say & control of its use.

There are the high schools football playoffs; our local school are at a disadvantage having to travel to Chapman Stadium at TU. If you build something in the 25,000-seat range you'd be surprised at what other events you will attract with chair back seats. If suites are needed have them available for a tenant to construct.

OKC now has the amenities (hotels, reputable restaurants, eating establishments downtown that we didn't posses before 2000.

Mayor Holt has gone on record with an invitation to Funk-McLaughlin (d-usa post #405) with an invite to Funk about a soccer stadium--hope we can agree on some support from the city. Would like to see OKC do something big that will be a precursor to other attractions.

Previous post #415 about stadiums in Edinburg, TX a USL city with less than 100,000 that uses its SS stadium for multiple uses and USL Louisville with plans for a stadium that will be used for multiple events.

You're not going to attract anything if you don't have a venue--OKC has got to start somewhere.

[Jersey Boss]

MLS is not the NBA, MLB, NHL, or NFL. MLS would be a second level league in England, Germany, Spain etc. Consequently the USL is double A or single A when comparing it to the gold standard of soccer leagues on the worlds stage.