Ideas 4 MAPS

[Pete]

What if a soccer stadium were built similar to the Dallas FC stadium that had a stage on one end? It could double as a concert venue. And it could be used for high school football games also, even as a championship site for the larger classes - they could rotate between OKC and Tulsa.

We have tons of places to hold outdoor concerts and will soon have another big one at Scissortail Park.

Taft could accommodate football games. And playoff games are already played at Putnam City and elsewhere.

The only thing we are missing out on is the 6A-1 title game and that is always Tulsa-area schools anyway and they either play it up there or in Stillwater.

[OkieHornet]

We have tons of places to hold outdoor concerts and will soon have another big one at Scissortail Park.

Taft could accommodate football games. And playoff games are already played at Putnam City and elsewhere.

The only thing we are missing out on is the 6A-1 title game and that is always Tulsa-area schools anyway and they either play it up there or in Stillwater.

They should just rename 6A-1 championships the Tulsa State Title, like they do their fair!

But if somehow a soccer stadium does end up on the list, I do think it could be a nice multi-use facility with expansion possibilities in case of an MLS team coming here in the future.

i think we actually have very few outdoor options for concerts on the scale I'm thinking of (10-15,000). The Zoo Amphitheater doesn't even hold 10,000, and that's the biggest outdoor venue I can think of (and I'm not counting large open green spaces with no real seating / structure).

Anyway, I'm not even a soccer fan, but think it could be a nice addition that serves multiple purposes.

[Pete]

Generally speaking, stadiums make lousy concert venues.

And any pro soccer stadium will have natural turf which would make it even more problematic.


The Oval at Scissortail could hold a ton of people and is designed for concerts.

[OkieHornet]

Generally speaking, stadiums make lousy concert venues.

And any pro soccer stadium will have natural turf which would make it even more problematic.

The Oval at Scissortail could hold a ton of people and is designed for concerts.

True, they do make bad concert venues, but if you have one, you're going to get more concerts in your city than if you didn't have one.

The MLS stadiums in Dallas and Chicago routinely host concerts (Ed Sheeran, Phish, Kenny Chesney, - Jimmy Buffett seems to be an annual show at both) and soccer matches every season. There's a way to protect the turf well enough to allow those to happen.

Will the Great Lawn at Scissortail Park be sloped and have seating available? Or is it just a big lawn with a stage at one end?

[Pete]

^

There is a huge, sloped hill at the far end for seating.

[OkieHornet]

^

There is a huge, sloped hill at the far end for seating.

Good! When you have that large of an expanse, it sure will help to have some elevation towards the back.

[aDark]

^

There is a huge, sloped hill at the far end for seating.

I am super excited for this new outdoor area. The trees planted on the slope will look great once they mature enough. I do wonder whether the planting of trees near the great lawn area, and on the slope, will negatively effect the size of a crowd that can watch a show at Scissortail. Based on the size of the great lawn do we have any estimated numbers of how many people could attend a concert at Scissortail with the ability to see the stage? I *really* hope OKC is willing to pay a good amount of money for a big name (or 5) to come play for the opening of the park.

[rte66man]

We HAVE to do something about street lighting. Find out what Bethany did as mentioned upthread. Use anti-copper theft technology like in Kansas City. Make sure each street corner has a decent light. Fix the lights on top of each traffic signal. Most of the ones I see are out.

I would love to get something done about the highways. Find out a way to get the high mast lights fixed. When I asked about the ones at I44 and Lincoln, I was told the City wanted them turned off. The list goes on and on.

[MadMonk]

Playing devil's advocate here, but what if we voted "No" and let the "temporary" MAPS tax increase expire and go back to previous levels of taxation (like it was originally sold to us)?

[Laramie]

MAPS 4 will undoubtedly continue to include some large item projects. IMO it will be best served to include some small neighborhood enhancement items like lights, sidewalks and drainage. Admittedly they won't make that big of an impact community-wise; they just may be enough to sway voters. Chesapeake Energy Arena replacement could cost the city more than $600 million.

Anxious to see the projects proposed for this initiative. We need to stay focused on future ideas...

Do you think we will see an 8-10 year collection span worth $1.2 to $1.4 billion?

[PaddyShack]

It does sound like there is not a real clear direction to go in, if I was in OKC I would probably vote No on Maps4

[OkiePoke]

What about a city endowment?

[shawnw]

The mayor is on record as supporting endowments with MAPS 4. I reported on this back in August where he spoke at a Neighborhood Alliance function at OCU:

https://twitter.com/shawn_dubs/statu...48406070153216

[David]

I will absolutely vote no if a replacement for the arena is on a MAPS ballot before the building is actually physically obsolete. Spending a half billion to replace it just because it is a few decades old would be a mind-boggling waste of money.

[Laramie]

New arena will be needed; we don't possess enough suites and money making amenities--The Peake can't be expanded; it's already obsolete. It will be the last item to be built on the ballot sometime after 2026.

If a new arena is on the ballot; city could build a much better structure on city owned land than the initial $89 million budgeted for The Peake--hope it doesn't exclude ice hockey.

How about some minor renovations to the Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark or completely renovate it as a soccer specific stadium and build a $75 million baseball venue on the riverfront?

[PaddyShack]

New arena will be needed; probably the last item to be built on the ballot sometime after 2026.

If a new arena is on the ballot; city could build a much better structure on city owned land than the initial $89 million budgeted for The Peake--hope it doesn't exclude ice hockey.

How about some minor renovations to the Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark or completely renovate it as a soccer specific stadium and build a $75 million baseball venue on the riverfront?

Hmm, replacing the ballpark with a soccer stadium might be interesting, but never would happen.

[Laramie]

Hmm, replacing the ballpark with a soccer stadium might be interesting, but never would happen.

Didn't say replace the ballpark; renovate. It wouldn't take that much to renovate; Express Sports could probably do it alone without MAPS money. Keep the USL in OKC.

Again don't underestimate the new arena idea; just ask Seattle, you WILL lose the Thunder. I can tell you who's in line for an NBA franchise, the first two would be devastating:

1. Seattle
2 . Las Vegas
3. London
4. Vancouver
5. Kansas City
6. Louisville
7. Mexico City
8. San Diego

Ranking the 8 best cities for NBA expansion: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/10/nba...-durant-sonics

[Midtowner]

What about a city endowment?

I thought of that, but I think there would be some issues with the State Constitution, Art. 10 sect 14, which states that " Taxes shall be levied and collected by general laws, and for public purposes only." While a city endowment might be theoretically possible, its spending would be limited to things deemed a public good, so while they could probably fund busses for OKCPS students to go on field trips or to other events for educational purposes, they probably couldn't fund scholarships.

With that limitation in mind, I think a Board of Directors could probably oversee the spending of that money. I think an endowment is a great idea.


Most of these ideas I'm reading are things which are going to cost the city a fortune to maintain, limit what we can do in the future, and if they succeed in bringing a quality franchise, they'll only have to be rebuilt at twice the price a couple decades later. That's not the sort of legacy I want to pass on.

[Pete]

^

Or, we could stop keeping our sales tax artificially low to accommodate MAPS and let it be placed in line with other OK municipalities and then we'd actually have money for operations of all types, such as cutting weeds, picking up trash, fixing streetlights, etc.

As it is, we already fund a good chunk of the Myriad Gardens and will be doing the same for Scissortail Park.

[Midtowner]

I like plans which guarantee some sort of revenue. Whether you have OKC starting its own electric company to use profits to enhance the city and pass on savings to citizens as Edmond does or whether you have some sort of huge endowment which can do anything from funding cabaret shows put on by the elderly to paying for buses for field trips to the OKC Zoo for students, there's some sort of recurring revenue, some sort of growth for future generations.

A stadium doesn't really accomplish that. We have the Thunder. We don't need another major franchise in a market this small.

The problem I have with what you suggest, Pete, is that doing what you suggests means that this era of growth through paying in cash for big shiny projects is over. Probably for good. Maybe all good things come to an end though?

[Pete]

It sounds like we make be out of big, shiny projects to do.

Seems like people are working pretty hard to come up with anything, which tells me we are getting way far down the list.

[OkiePoke]

Good point about if an endowment is legal, and the money used from it would have to be watched. It would be a great way to offset the increased maintenance for all the MAPS. Depending on the size, ~750-1000 million, this would be a good increase in to the parks/trails budget.

[Pryor Tiger]

I don't think we are running out of capital projects necessarily, but we are I believe at a crossroads where MAPS needs to and probably will evolve into more social issues which include transit, education, mental health, homelessness. It is definitely an effective funding mechanism with MAPS 3 bringing in nearly 800 million dollars and will effectively change the face of Oklahoma City forever. I definitely believe the primary focus of the upcoming vote will be transit including BART and Streetcar expansions in 3 or 4 directions. I hope something innovative can happen regarding education and mental health/substance abuse although I can understand if people don't think that is a MAPS priority.

[OKCRT]

I don't think we are running out of capital projects necessarily, but we are I believe at a crossroads where MAPS needs to and probably will evolve into more social issues which include transit, education, mental health, homelessness. It is definitely an effective funding mechanism with MAPS 3 bringing in nearly 800 million dollars and will effectively change the face of Oklahoma City forever. I definitely believe the primary focus of the upcoming vote will be transit including BART and Streetcar expansions in 3 or 4 directions. I hope something innovative can happen regarding education and mental health/substance abuse although I can understand if people don't think that is a MAPS priority.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[Pryor Tiger]

I was thinking also if they get the sidewalks and streets repaired - MAPS 4 could include a very robust bicycle infrastructure based on the Bike Walk OKC plans that came out this summer. Most of BW OKC does not have proper funding mechanisms yet but would indeed improve mobility options for everyone.