Oklahoma Laws v. 3.2: The Liquor Law Thread

[BDP]

Metro suggested a new thread discussing our liquor laws. I always find it interesting, because as much as people seem annoyed with our liquor laws 1) they never change, 2) actual bills for change hardly ever seem to come up and, 3) there seems to be a great deal of confusion over the origin of these laws and why we can't get rid of them. In fact, I seem to recall Drew Edmondson saying that he doesn't see a constiuency for changing the liquor laws, yet I know of no one who supports these laws in their current form. Maybe through some discussion here we can figure some of this out and maybe focus on what we may have an ability to change.

First, I'd like to address the 3.2 issue. It's not as drastic as most people think, especially when talking about domestic beers. As swake pointed out in the other thread, 6.0 beer is not as prevalent as college students going to Texas for the weekend would have you believe. Here's a good site I found a while back that outlines the alcohol content of many beers:

http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/calories.php

Note that the %s there are listed by volume and Oklahoma's law is based on weight. So, a 4.2% by volume Bud Light ("regular" Bud Light) is only minutely higher in alcohol than "Oklahoma" BL. And there is no such thing as a 6.0 Budweiser, by weight or volume (Bid Ice gets to 5.9% by volume). I think the 6.0 myth comes from some states that may have or may have had laws limiting content to 6.0%, basically in efforts to curtail malt liquor sales. But that is more of a guess than anything.

Most of the higher percentages belong to independents, micro-breweries, and imports. All of which are available in OK in some way shape or form and most do not make 3.2 versions of their beer at all (some do have standards). In fact, while our liquor laws are very inconveniencing, I am not aware of any liquor that is outlawed outright. You can even buy Everclear (grain alcohol) in OK, which is illegal in some states.

However, the one thing that is entirely denied to Oklahoma consumers is chilled wine or beer containing more than 3.2% alcohol by weight. While I hate that I can't buy wine or liquor in a grocery store, I hate even more that I am denied being sold a product in the way that I want it altogether. In many cases lack of refrigeration is damaging to the product and is motivation for some makers to not sell their product in Oklahoma.

As far as I can reason, I can’t not think of a corporate protectionist slant on this rule. The distribution oligopoly shouldn't have a reason to not make cold product available to the consumer. The liquor stores may not want to install fridges, but that'd just be a competitive choice (and obviously a bad one). I don’t foresee any of these stores going out of business by changing this rule.

Anyway, my point is that it’s probably a long haul to get our laws changed, but I think it would be great to take on the one thing that we're denied altogether and which seems to have the least motivation for resistance from corporate and co-op lobbies.

Please feel free to discuss any and all facets and opinions regarding our liquor laws. It’s all on topic.

[okcpulse]

Metro suggested a new thread discussing our liquor laws. I always find it interesting, because as much as people seem annoyed with our liquor laws 1) they never change,

Actually, they do change for liquor stores, but only minutely, to where it's hard to notice. However, you are correct. There have been no major changes, and none seem to be in the works very soon.

The few revisions that have taken place pertain only to inventory. Until recently, liquor stores could not carry mini-wine bottles or mini-liquor bottles. That change was passed two years ago, however, the mini-liquor bottles must be sold in a package, not individually.

[okcpulse]

Here is what I'd like to see changed with Oklahoma's liquor code. I actually drafted a proposal on this in 2002, but I never heard any responses from the good old legislature. The good news is, an initiative petition may be circulated next year. Here is my proposal.

Repeal Title 37, Article XVIII of the Oklahoma Constitution. Repeal statutes which govern the distribution, sale, hours of sale, possession and restrictions of sale of low-point beer.

A summary of the proposal as follows:

ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE DEFINITIONS

This section defines alcoholic beverages distributed and sold within the boundaries of the State of Oklahoma.

Beer - Alcoholic beverages manufactured by a licensed brewer brewed with yeast, barley, hops, wheat, and/or other grains containing 5% alcohol by volume, variably.

Flavored Malt Beverage - Flavored beer manufactured by a licensed manufacturer which includes fruit flavors containing 5% alcohol by volume, variably.

Flavored Beverages - Mixed alcoholic beverages manufactured by a licensed manufacturer such as wine coolers, spiked colas, spiked punch, and other flavored beverages packaged for sale by the manufacturer.

Wine - Alcoholic beverages manufactured by a licensed winery fermented by fruits, yeast and sugars containing 7% alcohol by volume to 18% alcohol by volume.

Distilled Spirits - Alcoholic beverages manufactered by a licensed distiller/ rectifier concocted with grains and other ingredients to obtain 20% alcohol by volume to 63% alcohol by volume.

Brewer - Establishment licensed to brew beer.
Winery - Establishment licensed to ferment and bottle wine.
Distiller/ rectifier - Establishment licensed to manufactur distilled spirits.

Retail package store - Establishment licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption.

General retail store - Establishment licensed to sell beer or beer and wine for off-premise comsumption.

Restaurant - Establishment licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premise consumption with food sales comprising of a simple majority.

Bar/Club/Pub - Establishment licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premise consumption.

Casino - Establishment licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premise consumption.

Hotel/motel - Establishment licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premise consumption.

Wholesale distributor - Establishment licensed to distribute alcoholic beverages to retail establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise and on-premise consumption.

Oklahoma Alcoholic Beverages Laws Enforcement Commission (ABLE) - Entity charged with overseeing the enforcement of laws governing retail package stores, general retail stores, on-premise establisments and special events licensed to seel alcoholic beverages.

Wholesale Distribution

Wholesale distributors licensed to carry beer, wine and distilled spirits may enter into an agreement with the manufacturer of beer, wine and/or distilled spirits to establish an exclusive franchise territory. Distributors are responsible for maintaining quality control over beverages which can be spoiled.

License Types

LIQUOR LICENSE- OFF PREMISES (CLASS A)

Retail Package Stores

Establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption whose inventory inlcudes beer, wine and distilled spirits are hereby defined as a retail package store.

Establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption can remain open between the hours of 9AM to 10PM Monday through Saturday and Noon to 10PM on Sundays. Licensed establishments may close on holidays at the owner's discretion. Inventory must include not more than ninety (90) percent alcoholic beverages and not more than ten (10) percent non-alcoholic beverages, including mixers, devices for opening alcoholic beverage containers, food items, literature, lottery games, tobacco and sundries.

Restrictions

Establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption may not sell alcoholic beverages to anyone under twenty-one (21) years of age. Any persons under twenty-one (21) years of age must be accompanied by an adult or legal guardian and cannot handle alcoholic beverage items while on the premises.

RETAIL BEER & WINE LICENSE- OFF PREMISES (CLASS B)

Establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption
whose inventory includes beer and wine only is hereby defined as a general retail store. General retail stores which maintain a simple majority inventory of non-alcoholic beverages and other items are eligible for a retail beer & wine license. Licensed establishments which carry a beer & wine license may sell alcoholic beverages between the hours of 8AM and Midnight Monday through Saturday and between Noon and Midnight on Sundays.

Restrictions

Establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption whose inventory includes beer and wine only may not sell alcoholic beverages to anyone under twenty-one (21) years of age.

BEER LICENSE- OFF PREMISES (CLASS C)

Establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption
whose inventory includes beer only is hereby defined as a general retail store, and must follow the hours of sale set forth for all non-retail package liquor stores, and is granted the same eligibility as a retail beer and wine license for off-premise consumption.

LICENSES- RIGHTS AND RESTRICTIONS

Any owner, limited partnership or corporation may obtain an off-premise liquor license, off-premise wine and beer license or off-premise beer license must obtain said licenses for each location owned and operated by the owner, limited partnership or corporation. Multiple retail stores owned and operated by the same owner, limited partnership or corporation will not be recognized under a single license.

Licenses are transferrable after the license fee has been paid in full to the Oklahoma Alcoholic Beverages Laws Enforcement Commission (ABLE). Fees will be set by the legislature for each off-premise license according to the classification of the license.

[betts]

From the DOK today:

Beer, wine petition drive in the works
By Ron Jenkins Associated Press Writer

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A fall initiative petition drive is planned by a group known as Oklahomans for Modern Laws, which wants to let voters decide if grocery stores should be able to sell wine and full-strength beer.

Brian Howe, spokesman for the organization, said supporters are gearing up to collect signatures during the Oklahoma State Fair in Oklahoma City, Sept. 13-23.

Howe said Thursday that updating state law governing wine and beer sales will be good for Oklahoma’s economy in several ways, including bolstering a growing state wine industry.

“We just think this will promote additional commerce, help out some of the grocers,” he said.

The chairman of the group is Sean Campbell, Oklahoma City investor. He has loaned the campaign about $127,000, according to reports filed with the Oklahoma Ethics Commission.

Howe said sponsors hope to raise $400,000 to $500,000 for the petition drive by Aug. 15.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Good for them!

[MadMonk]

I saw a quick story about this on the news tonight. I'll be signing the petition when I see it. There's no really good reason not to have "regular" refrigerated beer and wine in our stores. I don't mind going to a liquor store for spirits, but wine and beer should be available chilled in the grocery store.

[dismayed]

I'll be happy to sign as well. I'm not getting my hopes up though... I think we still have a majority of extremely morals-conservative voters who are likely to vote this down.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I think we still have a majority of extremely morals-conservative voters who are likely to vote this down.

Exactly! Which is why we need to sell this idea to the PREACHERS and get them on board first!

[betts]

I think playing up the ability of local vinyards being able to sell their produce might be the way to go. Most of us probably know that having beer and wine in the supermarket isn't going to lead to an increase in alcoholism and morality, as those who really want to drink are going to get liquor at the liquor store right next door to the supermarket. But this is one of those issues that may lead to irrational knee jerk thinking on the part of some. So, perhaps emphasizing the "made in Oklahoma" aspect might be helpful.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I guess they might have a fight on their hands by taking a boatload of business away from the liquor stores that are already competing with the law to simply sell what they have. Not that wine sales really account for a huge chunk of their business (not that I see anyway)...But they might fight it a bit...They certainly have nothing to gain from putting the stuff in grocery stores so I doubt that they're going to help much.

Game plan time!

1. Convince the Preachers it's okay.

2. Convince WalMart it's what their customers want.

3. 1 and 2 should suffice, but all lists need at least 3 numbers.




Okay yeah...Who am I kidding, I'll just continue to plan ahead and keep my house stocked with enough beer and wine for any impromptu paaartay. Beer runs are for 22 year olds.

[SpectralMourning]

Why is this still an issue? Why are people letting preachers control their votes?

[Karried]

You can sign Online:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/285966504

[betts]

There's also a place to forward the petition to your friends so they can sign, adding a customized message if you'd like.

[Midtowner]

Why is this still an issue? Why are people letting preachers control their votes?

Are you new to this state?

The initiative petition idea is great. The liquor store lobby is pretty strong -- no way does this get through the legislature.

There is a sect of fundamentalist Christians who believe that alcohol in any form is immoral and that making it more available to the public will do more harm than good. That group is a significant part of the voting public -- and they will show up to vote no.

[Karried]

That's fine.. they don't have to drink alcohol .. but who are they to tell anyone else that they can't buy a bottle of chilled wine in a grocery store?

ugh. Live and Let Live...sheesh!

[Easy180]

That's fine.. they don't have to drink alcohol .. but who are they to tell anyone else that they can't buy a bottle of chilled wine in a grocery store?

ugh. Live and Let Live...sheesh!

Karried...Come on now...They have actual studies and facts to throw in your face

Get your common sense crap outta here!

[Midtowner]

Karried...Come on now...They have actual studies and facts to throw in your face

Get your common sense crap outta here!

It seems we've run most of the Christianists off of the board. They exist... they're a force.. they must be won over to win a vote like this.

[Easy180]

Well I was a bit surprised the lottery got approved so maybe we will be pleasantly surprised how this vote would go down (If it gets to a vote)

[NE Oasis]

It seems we've run most of the Christianists off of the board. They exist... they're a force.. they must be won over to win a vote like this.

Gosh, I've never been called a Christianist before. I am a Christian, of the conservative Southern Baptist persuation. Although there is, and always will be, a select group that votes as the man in the pulpit dictates my Pastor encourages individual study of the Bible and thoughful prayer on controversial issues.
Having lived in several states during my 20 years in the Navy I saw no significant difference in teen drinking, DUI, and other "hot button" issues in states where beer and wine were available at the corner grocery. I would vote For to amend the state constitution, my reasoning that alcoholic beverages "exposed" would remove the mystery (and therefore a great deal of temptation/curiosity) and provide another routine opportunity for parents to discuss alcohol use/abuse as they should be discussing many other products that can be detrimental to personal health and welfare and society at large if abused.

[Easy180]

I would vote For to amend the state constitution, my reasoning that alcoholic beverages "exposed" would remove the mystery (and therefore a great deal of temptation/curiosity) and provide another routine opportunity for parents to discuss alcohol use/abuse as they should be discussing many other products that can be detrimental to personal health and welfare and society at large if abused.

Never thought of it that way NE...What you said makes sense to me...Having it in the aisle next to adult diapers and Dorito's may take it down a notch on the cool factor for many teens...Nothing monumental of course, but definitely couldn't hurt

[jbrown84]

I'm also a Southern Baptist and think this is a good thing. I'm tired of the backwards, 1950's thinking among conservative Christians.

[Karried]

And you both give Christianity and religion a good name... not because you endorse alcohol sales but because you are not judgemental.

You are respectful, and you present your thoughts in a well received manner... you attract people instead of turn them off of your faith or beliefs.

In my opinion, that is the way to influence people in a positive manner.

[Doug Loudenback]

I, Doug Dawg, predict that downtown Okc will never get a semi-serious grocery downtown until after grocers can sell wine as part of their fare. Nothing unique about this prediction, I'm just a small part of the chorus. Want to visit a cool Texas grocery in the vicinity of where my 2nd heart lies (Corpus Christi), visit the Corpus Christi HEB on the way to Padre Island. GREAT grocery ... fresh seafood and great beef and other "grocer" items ... but the wine area is very nice, too.

Hopefully this will happen soon in Oklahoma City (and Oklahoma, at large).

[Nixon7]

Give us 6.0 beer and we can stop making beer runs down south and giving our $$ to saxet!

[dismayed]

Exactly! Which is why we need to sell this idea to the PREACHERS and get them on board first!

Hmm. Well good luck with that one.