Oklahoma liquor laws

[Pete]

Earlier this week at a local restaurant and bar that has a big beer selection, they didn't have about half the high-point beers on their list.

Out of Coop F5 (of all things) and Lagunitas offerings. Said they could not get the product due to distributors being overwhelmed with demand.

I'm sure we are going to see plenty of that sort of thing in the short term.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
I had coffee with a friend who is a wine rep on Weds, and she said that there definitely is a ton of chaos in the industry right now, but expects it to mostly sort out within the next 30-60.

Went to a restaurant last night that generally has quite a few great beers on tap and more than half of the handles were covered by styrofoam drinking cups.

[ctchandler]

The Louie's at 178th and Western replaced COOP F5 with PBR. Not sure why because I have three kegs in my home now, so it's not a shortage. I think October 1st has caused a lot of delivery problems.
C. T.

[jedicurt]

The Louie's at 178th and Western replaced COOP F5 with PBR. Not sure why because I have three kegs in my home now, so it's not a shortage. I think October 1st has caused a lot of delivery problems.
C. T.

distributors are refusing to carry some local breweries if that brewery is not going to be using this to distribute come october 1st. they keep telling their customers that there is a shortage... but it's because they are refusing to distribute it

[Pete]

Everyplace I've been in the last couple of weeks is out of tons of beers.

All cite the change in distributors... Where they used to work with one, now they have to deal with several under the new structure.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
Yep. Same experience here, and same explanation. Which was also confirmed to me by friend who works for a wine broker.

[David]

I independently heard the same from my brother over the weekend. He's not in the industry, is just a guy who has been asking various liquor store people about how the changes have been affecting business.

[bchris02]

This isn't a new thing. It's been an issue since at least May. Sauced on Paseo has been out of Belhaven Scottish Ale (one of my favorites to get on tap) since about then.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
Was at Sauced last week for the first time in a very long time, and half of the tap handles were 86ed. They also had the same explanation. It's one of the places I was referencing several posts up.

[PaddyShack]

So, will everything return to normal once the dust settles or will places never have some of these beers they used to carry? Also, I am not quite understanding what the law changes did to affect distributors, could someone explain a little bit of what happened, please?

[baralheia]

So, will everything return to normal once the dust settles or will places never have some of these beers they used to carry? Also, I am not quite understanding what the law changes did to affect distributors, could someone explain a little bit of what happened, please?

My understanding is that under the old law, companies producing alcoholic beverages for sale within the state of Oklahoma had to sell their beverages to any distributor that wanted to carry them, on equal footing. Under the new law, producers of such beverages are allowed to restrict who may distribute their beverages to as few as one single distributor for the entire state. As I understand it, this was done to appease brewers like Anheuser-Busch, because they solely handled distribution for their own 3.2% beers and would vigorously oppose losing this distribution exclusivity under the new law.

[Quicker]

So, will everything return to normal once the dust settles or will places never have some of these beers they used to carry? Also, I am not quite understanding what the law changes did to affect distributors, could someone explain a little bit of what happened, please?

Something in the bill that a lot of people didn’t realize when they were voting on wine in grocery stores and single strength beer was for wholesalers to have exclusivity on products they carry. Under the old law you had a handfull of wholesalers and they all carried everything and they were competitive on price, service etc.... Under the new law there is only one wholesaler to buy each product from and if they’re out of stock, then there is nowhere else for a retailer to buy it... As October 1 appoaches, each wholesaler has stopped carrying products that won’t be theirs causing lots of outages and competition has basically gone away among the largest wholesalers...the wholesale markup on liquor has gone from 8% to 18% and they’re going from 5 day a week deliveries to one or two days causing outages as well...

[Quicker]

My understanding is that under the old law, companies producing alcoholic beverages for sale within the state of Oklahoma had to sell their beverages to any distributor that wanted to carry them, on equal footing. Under the new law, producers of such beverages are allowed to restrict who may distribute their beverages to as few as one single distributor for the entire state. As I understand it, this was done to appease brewers like Anheuser-Busch, because they solely handled distribution for their own 3.2% beers and would vigorously oppose losing this distribution exclusivity under the new law.

This is mostly true except A-B was actually opposed to this change because they dominated shelf space in grocery stores as it was and this just brings in much more competition for shelf space... This was driven by the wholesalers being able to control the markup on their products and no longer having to compete...and for the largest wholesalers to be able to squeeze out the smaller ones...

[Quicker]

Double post

[PaddyShack]

So... brewers can only get their products to store via a wholesaler? It seems like we get to buy liquor in more places now but the selection could suffer and prices will inflate?

[Pete]

So... brewers can only get their products to store via a wholesaler? It seems like we get to buy liquor in more places now but the selection could suffer and prices will inflate?

Remember that particularly with chains, they have a lot of power because they control what hits their shelves. They can also force down the price they pay based on volume. Walmart already does this with food and other merchandise.

At least with beer, I'm not sure prices will be higher in the longer term. But even if that proves to be the case, it's worth it to me. I hate all those crappy liquor stores and will be overjoyed to avoid them altogether, as I really only care about beer and wine.

[Quicker]

Remember that particularly with chains, they have a lot of power because they control what hits their shelves. They can also force down the price they pay based on volume. Walmart already does this with food and other merchandise.

At least with beer, I'm not sure prices will be higher in the longer term. But even if that proves to be the case, it's worth it to me. I hate all those crappy liquor stores and will be overjoyed to avoid them altogether, as I really only care about beer and wine.

Actually this isn’t true... liquor retailers didn’t get much in the new laws but one of the things they did get was a level playing field... The wholesale price on wine, liquor and beer is exactly the same whether they buy one case or a thousand cases... there are no quantity discounts... and fortunately many people prefer to do business with a local merchant as opposed to seeing Walmart become the largest wine and beer retailer in the state...

[jedicurt]

So... brewers can only get their products to store via a wholesaler?

well... not entirely... a brewer can choose to self distribute in certain areas (i believe they are able to choose to do this county by county, but might be wrong on that). just the cost at this point means that probably none of the local breweries are going to immediately... but i have heard that two of them do have the idea of self distribution in their long term plans

[Pete]

Actually this isn’t true... liquor retailers didn’t get much in the new laws but one of the things they did get was a level playing field... The wholesale price on wine, liquor and beer is exactly the same whether they buy one case or a thousand cases... there are no quantity discounts... and fortunately many people prefer to do business with a local merchant as opposed to seeing Walmart become the largest wine and beer retailer in the state...

Thanks for the clarification.

But the retail price is not set by wholesalers, correct? In other words, the retailer can set a lower price if they want to live with a smaller margin, such as having more volume and/or less overhead.


Regardless, I'm not convinced beer and wine prices will go up in any significant way. And even if they do, I still think it's a great trade-off.

[Quicker]

Thanks for the clarification.

But the retail price is not set by wholesalers, correct? In other words, the retailer can set a lower price if they want to live with a smaller margin, such as having more volume and/or less overhead.


Regardless, I'm not convinced beer and wine prices will go up in any significant way. And even if they do, I still think it's a great trade-off.

Yes, all of that is true... a lot of wine prices will come down especially on national brands, beer prices will stay about the same and liquor prices have already gone up and will go up further as liquor retailers are forced to compensate for the lower margins and lower sales on wine...

[sooner88]

Advertised prices of wine at Homeland are definitely less than anything we can get now.

[TheTravellers]

Advertised prices of wine at Homeland are definitely less than anything we can get now.

The prices at the Homeland on 18th/Classen were slightly higher than at Modern on 30th/Penn. Haven't been to Modern since we've been to Homeland, though (which was last week), so that might've changed. It was negligible, though - Black Box 500ml Tetra Paks were $4.95 at Homeland and $4.76 at Modern, and I think the other 750ml bottles I glanced at were about a dollar more, it seemed.

[sooner88]

The prices at the Homeland on 18th/Classen were slightly higher than at Modern on 30th/Penn. Haven't been to Modern since we've been to Homeland, though (which was last week), so that might've changed. It was negligible, though - Black Box 500ml Tetra Paks were $4.95 at Homeland and $4.76 at Modern, and I think the other 750ml bottles I glanced at were about a dollar more, it seemed.

Interesting, I was at the one on May. I'll check again.

[Bunty]

With a full page newspaper ad, Food Pyramid, Stillwater, is promoting what it has in store starting Oct. 1. Over 300 wines, over 240 craft beers, create your own 6 pack with Mix Six. Lowest prices in town. (What? Even lower than Wal-Mart?)

Food Pyramid is about sold out on 3.2% beer.

[SEMIweather]

With a full page newspaper ad, Food Pyramid, Stillwater, is promoting what it has in store starting Oct. 1. Over 300 wines, over 240 craft beers, create your own 6 pack with Mix Six. Lowest prices in town. (What? Even lower than Wal-Mart?)

Food Pyramid is about sold out on 3.2% beer.

I am hoping we get more create your own six-pack options in the OKC/Norman area under the new laws. Currently, the best I've found is down at The Cellar in Norman, but it's rather expensive. In DFW, there are a bunch of places where you can build your own for $10.99 or so, would love to see something similar up here.