Rail Lines at 240!!!!

[bombermwc]

So i was REALLY hoping that when GM moved out, that the rail lines would slow down just nort of 240. Man i was wrong.

I know there are rules about the length of time they can block a line, but they don't apply here. Since the company is using the area as a switching area, the back and forth crap they do nullifies the "blocking" rule. And even that apparently isn't really a law.

So im' curious if anyone knows a good way to file a complaint about the activities on a given line. I believe BNSF owns these lines and they seem to always pick rush hour in the afternoon to do a lot of work. And because of where on the line the area is, the cars move INCREDIBLY SLOWLY! 20-30 minutes of waiting isn't uncommon!!!!!!

In a perfect world for me, they'd rip out the lines to the west so we can pave over the crossings between 35 and Air Depot!!!!! But obviously they're using the lines so that's not going to happen. None of the crossings sit in an area where we can do anything but at-grade either. But there has to be some way to get this company to stop blocking such busy roads. Yesterday, Sunnylane and Sooner southbound were backed up for a full MILE! I U-turned on Sunnylane after 15 minutes of waiting. Went to Sooner, waited 10 more and U-turned again before i finally went to Air Depot, which has a rail bridge so you dont have to wait on the train. All that mess and i still beat the train traffic. I dont know if it was stopped at Bryant as well, but it wouldn't surprise me.

It seems like there has to be a better way to work this out. Get the work done before a certain time or wait until after a certain time so you dont back up rush hour like this!

[baralheia]

I'd suggest contacting BNSF's 24-hour Operations Resource Center at 1-800-832-5452; If they can't help you at that number, they should be able to point you in the right direction for addressing your complaint. It may be helpful to make a report to the City's Action Center about the traffic blockages as well (405-297-2535 Mon-Fri between 8:30–11:45 am and 1:00–4:30 pm).

[bombermwc]

And they did it again yesterday, just in time for rush hour, blocking both sunnyland and sooner at the same time!!! ARGH!!!

[BLJR]

From my experiences with the railroad system, I hope you have better success. I know when they built the new Yukon HS that is right next to the track, they contacted BNSF to see if they could coordinate the release of students from class with the train schedule to minimize risk at the crossing. The exact reply they got was "the train comes through, when the train comes through...." . I have dealt with working to get utility permits run under the tracks as well, and you get that back anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months.....

[rezman]

^ That is the UP over by Yukon HS, not BNSF. And it is true that the trains don’t run on timetables any more.

[LakeEffect]

So i was REALLY hoping that when GM moved out, that the rail lines would slow down just nort of 240. Man i was wrong.

I know there are rules about the length of time they can block a line, but they don't apply here. Since the company is using the area as a switching area, the back and forth crap they do nullifies the "blocking" rule. And even that apparently isn't really a law.

So im' curious if anyone knows a good way to file a complaint about the activities on a given line. I believe BNSF owns these lines and they seem to always pick rush hour in the afternoon to do a lot of work. And because of where on the line the area is, the cars move INCREDIBLY SLOWLY! 20-30 minutes of waiting isn't uncommon!!!!!!

In a perfect world for me, they'd rip out the lines to the west so we can pave over the crossings between 35 and Air Depot!!!!! But obviously they're using the lines so that's not going to happen. None of the crossings sit in an area where we can do anything but at-grade either. But there has to be some way to get this company to stop blocking such busy roads. Yesterday, Sunnylane and Sooner southbound were backed up for a full MILE! I U-turned on Sunnylane after 15 minutes of waiting. Went to Sooner, waited 10 more and U-turned again before i finally went to Air Depot, which has a rail bridge so you dont have to wait on the train. All that mess and i still beat the train traffic. I dont know if it was stopped at Bryant as well, but it wouldn't surprise me.

It seems like there has to be a better way to work this out. Get the work done before a certain time or wait until after a certain time so you dont back up rush hour like this!

The Oklahoma Corporation Commission regulations railroads in this regard. ODOT manages rail crossing in a physical condition-sense, but stopped trains, rail business, is the domain of the Corp. Commission.

[u50254082]

If nobody had cars and we all just went hobo style and hopped on the train, we'd get around much quicker. Seems like a logical next step.

[jompster]

Didn't Tinker buy that switching yard awhile back with plans to close it off? Seems like that would eventually make this stretch of track obsolete. They have another switching yard around the corner near 89th and Eastern anyway.

[bombermwc]

jompster, well that's what i was HOPING would happen, but no they didn't get the whole yard. So BNSF is constantly doing crap out there with trains going in and out at all hours at 5mph. They use portions of the double lines on 240 as parking lots for months at a time as well. Since it's an off shoot of the main line that used to only go to GM, it's one big parking lot for them. And apparently, to hell with whatever impact it has on the people that live around there.

Rail is SOOOOO frustrating in that no one seems to care about helping you with complaints. I always get the same bullcrap others have said. They just dont care that they are impacting people. They see it as, "we have the right to do what we want, when we want, and screws to you".

I almost wish we had stop lights that the ROAD controlled, instead of the other way around. Let's put controls in that tell the TRAINS when to stop so that we can fix some of this mess. And in an area like this, with EMPTY cars, there's no reason at all for them to have 2 mile long trains that block multiple crossings that are a MILE apart. Break those trains up guys, and make your switching be positioned in a way that you dont have to SIT on the crossing to get it done. When you have a full mile between crossings, SURELY you can figure this out. Plus they have almost a 2 mile stretch once they get east of sooner since there's a rail bridge on Air Depot and it curves, not to mention heads in to the yard.

But then again, they would have to give a F, and they apparently have no more F's to give.

[baralheia]

Actually, Tinker DID take the entire GM Yard; the rails are cut at Air Depot and no track exists east of that point any longer. BNSF still has customers on the line, called GM lead, that led to the yard, so even without GM Yard this track isn't obsolete. That said I understand your frustration. I would contact the City of OKC and see if there's anything they can do to lean on BNSF.

[jompster]

Actually, Tinker DID take the entire GM Yard; the rails are cut at Air Depot and no track exists east of that point any longer. BNSF still has customers on the line, called GM lead, that led to the yard, so even without GM Yard this track isn't obsolete. That said I understand your frustration. I would contact the City of OKC and see if there's anything they can do to lean on BNSF.

That's what I was thinking. County assessor shows the entire parcel owned by the United States government. I thought I had seen where the track was cut going into the yard. They must be using that track to back trains out of the 89th yard to add/remove cars. It's still crappy that they do it like this, but it sounds like BNSF doesn't care.

[TheTravellers]

That's what I was thinking. County assessor shows the entire parcel owned by the United States government. I thought I had seen where the track was cut going into the yard. They must be using that track to back trains out of the 89th yard to add/remove cars. It's still crappy that they do it like this, but it sounds like BNSF doesn't care.

BNSF doesn't care. No railroads care about anything other than themselves (generally speaking in situations like this). Trains have priority over autos almost everywhere, railroads make it as hard as possible to do anything with their property or to cooperate with them to do anything with their property, freight trains have precedence over passenger trains almost everywhere (with a few exceptions in Chicagoland, I believe), they just do whatever they want and everybody non-railroad has to deal with it. baralheia can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's pretty much the way it is, and will be, forever and ever, amen.

[baralheia]

BNSF doesn't care. No railroads care about anything other than themselves (generally speaking in situations like this). Trains have priority over autos almost everywhere, railroads make it as hard as possible to do anything with their property or to cooperate with them to do anything with their property, freight trains have precedence over passenger trains almost everywhere (with a few exceptions in Chicagoland, I believe), they just do whatever they want and everybody non-railroad has to deal with it. baralheia can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's pretty much the way it is, and will be, forever and ever, amen.

Generally, yeah, you're right, though that mentality usually applies more to the big Class I railroads like BNSF, UP, etc. Smaller railroads are typically better neighbors, but not always. But they do see it as they can do whatever they want, pretty much. There's no federal law that limits how long a train can occupy a grade crossing, and despite several states attempting to make it illegal for a crossing to be blocked by a train for longer than 5-10 minutes (depending on area), federal courts have upheld the idea that state and local laws are pre-empted by federal regulation of railroads under the US Constitution's commerce clause.
As for passenger priority, federal law says that passenger trains must always be given priority - but in practice it depends a lot on the host railroad. In Chicago, Metra actually owns some of the rail they run over so they're able to force any freight operations to take a lower priority in those areas. On the Eastern Seaboard, along Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, Amtrak owns those rails too so passengers take priority over any freight operations there too - as well as a few other small segments of Amtrak-owned rail around the country. Elsewhere, it's a crapshoot. UP and BNSF generally do a pretty good job of giving passenger trains top priority, whereas NS and CN both hate the fact that they play host to passenger trains and have been accused multiple times of trying to find ways to circumvent the passenger priority laws.

[TheTravellers]

^^^ GTK, thanks for the info, didn't know that passenger theoretically had priority, always heard that freight did, and the line I lived on in Chicagoland (BNSF west out to Aurora) was triple-tracked, so all trains moved very smoothly and quickly (as long as it wasn't winter ), so I wasn't really affected by competing priorities...

[bombermwc]

So basically we're screwed and can't do anything about it and have to just continue to steam because no one gives a crap huh? That's just freaking awesome.

[KL_Moore]

Also, unlike some of the other ways the federal courts have tried to quasi-connect certain activities to the Commerce Clause, regulating trains (that carry people or goods interstate) does truly fall under the clause's scope.

[baralheia]

^^^ GTK, thanks for the info, didn't know that passenger theoretically had priority, always heard that freight did, and the line I lived on in Chicagoland (BNSF west out to Aurora) was triple-tracked, so all trains moved very smoothly and quickly (as long as it wasn't winter ), so I wasn't really affected by competing priorities...

Ah, yes, BNSF's Chicago Subdivision, aka the Racetrack! Good times. Never lived out there but it's pretty well known among railfans. The triple track through that area is really impressive for keeping traffic flowing... at least as long as trains stay on the rails, lol. My last Amtrak trip to Chicago, back in May, got delayed for hours because a BNSF freight derailed in Aurora, right at the end of the Chicago Sub.

So basically we're screwed and can't do anything about it and have to just continue to steam because no one gives a crap huh? That's just freaking awesome.

With enough pressure on both BNSF and the City, something may be able to be done here... You and everyone you know affected by this should light up BNSF's phones, as well as OKC's Action Center. You can prod the beast into action - it just takes a lot of prodding. A public shoutout to Mayor Holt about this on social media may not be a bad idea too, if you're on Facebook or Twitter.

[rezman]

^^^ Spent many a day up there along the racetrack. 27 miles of non-stop entertainment. There's been talk of Metra extending their West Line on past Aurora to Plano, which would require a huge investment and include extending the 3rd track beyond Aurora as well. Comparing anywhere to Chicago's rail action is like comparing …. well, there is no comparison. Passenger and freight services there have to cooperate with each other to survive.
6 class 1 railroads plus the 2 belt lines, Metra and others all operate there. And they have their own gridlock.

The Racetrack is especially challenging because during the morning and evening rush hours, any opposing rail traffic has to thread their way against and onslaught of Metra commuter traffic. It’s amazing how they make it all work, and it is dispatched out of Fort Worth Texas.
It really is orchestrated chaos.

What we have here is nothing

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

A little off topic, I saw my first big rail site in Cheyenne Wyoming, I never saw so many tracks and a control tower as I crossed over the big bridge. I've never seen anything like that before.

[TheTravellers]

^^^ Spent many a day up there along the racetrack. 27 miles of non-stop entertainment. There's been talk of Metra extending their West Line on past Aurora to Plano, which would require a huge investment and include extending the 3rd track beyond Aurora as well. Comparing anywhere to Chicago's rail action is like comparing …. well, there is no comparison. Passenger and freight services there have to cooperate with each other to survive.
6 class 1 railroads plus the 2 belt lines, Metra and others all operate there. And they have their own gridlock.

The Racetrack is especially challenging because during the morning and evening rush hours, any opposing rail traffic has to thread their way against and onslaught of Metra commuter traffic. It’s amazing how they make it all work, and it is dispatched out of Fort Worth Texas.
It really is orchestrated chaos.

What we have here is nothing

Ha, yeah. I was born and lived here for 30 years, had to deal with the one or two main lines with slow freights, then moved to Downers Grove in 1995 and was just blown away by the complexity on that set of tracks! There are so many Metra expresses - they do 3 stops, then express in, then another does the next 3, lather/rinse/repeat, and they all leapfrog each other on the middle track, it's just insane if you look at their schedule. And then the ones that terminated at Union Station had to go back out to the Aurora yard... Found out very quickly that if you were crossing the tracks and the signals went off, you ran to get off the tracks, those things fly by at probably 50+ MPH... I remember very little freight during the rush hours, they might actually not let any freight on those lines during them, but there was lots of freight during other hours.

[bombermwc]

Pondering putting up signs in the right of way... "Tired of trains coming at rush hour? Call _______"

[PaddyShack]

^^^ Spent many a day up there along the racetrack. 27 miles of non-stop entertainment. There's been talk of Metra extending their West Line on past Aurora to Plano, which would require a huge investment and include extending the 3rd track beyond Aurora as well. Comparing anywhere to Chicago's rail action is like comparing …. well, there is no comparison. Passenger and freight services there have to cooperate with each other to survive.
6 class 1 railroads plus the 2 belt lines, Metra and others all operate there. And they have their own gridlock.

The Racetrack is especially challenging because during the morning and evening rush hours, any opposing rail traffic has to thread their way against and onslaught of Metra commuter traffic. It’s amazing how they make it all work, and it is dispatched out of Fort Worth Texas.
It really is orchestrated chaos.

What we have here is nothing

Wait, so both freight and passenger/commuter traffic is dispatched from Fort Worth?

[LakeEffect]

Wait, so both freight and passenger/commuter traffic is dispatched from Fort Worth?

For the BNSF lines in Chicago, correct. BNSF dispatches its entire system out of Fort Worth, and it controls the Aurora line from there as well. It's Metra's busiest line in terms of passengers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNSF_Railway_(Metra)

[bombermwc]

So this is interesting https://newsok.com/article/5622877/t...ears-committee
You can see in the old rule, there are a million exceptions. And stopping and changing directions resets the clock too. It really SHOULD be that if its blocking the crossing, then the clock is running. This crap where it blocks for multiple crossings (2 miles) at 240, its crazy.

[Snowman]

So i was REALLY hoping that when GM moved out, that the rail lines would slow down just nort of 240. Man i was wrong.

I know there are rules about the length of time they can block a line, but they don't apply here. Since the company is using the area as a switching area, the back and forth crap they do nullifies the "blocking" rule. And even that apparently isn't really a law.

So im' curious if anyone knows a good way to file a complaint about the activities on a given line. I believe BNSF owns these lines and they seem to always pick rush hour in the afternoon to do a lot of work. And because of where on the line the area is, the cars move INCREDIBLY SLOWLY! 20-30 minutes of waiting isn't uncommon!!!!!!

In a perfect world for me, they'd rip out the lines to the west so we can pave over the crossings between 35 and Air Depot!!!!! But obviously they're using the lines so that's not going to happen. None of the crossings sit in an area where we can do anything but at-grade either. But there has to be some way to get this company to stop blocking such busy roads. Yesterday, Sunnylane and Sooner southbound were backed up for a full MILE! I U-turned on Sunnylane after 15 minutes of waiting. Went to Sooner, waited 10 more and U-turned again before i finally went to Air Depot, which has a rail bridge so you dont have to wait on the train. All that mess and i still beat the train traffic. I dont know if it was stopped at Bryant as well, but it wouldn't surprise me.

It seems like there has to be a better way to work this out. Get the work done before a certain time or wait until after a certain time so you dont back up rush hour like this!

Since it looks like there is multiple business on those lines with rail docks, they might actually be moving out at rush out due to the shift end, thus nothing more will be loaded that day (granted if there is a later shift might be why their is switching is happening their to get a fresh train for new shift) and is due to arrive somewhere probably hundreds of miles away (since if it were closer then would likely be sent by truck). If that is the case sending them earlier is probably not really feasible, depending on the strength of their employee's union later may risk some type of bonus pay, thus more likely to be intransigent about waiting till after rush.