Streetcar

[Ross MacLochness]

There are five turns the streetcar makes where slip lanes were created to accommodate the wide turning radius of the streetcars. The two such turns in Bricktown are near the recharge zone and as such are Streetcar only slip lanes. However, the turns at 4th and Hudson, 10th and Robinson, and Sheridan and Gaylord, are open to not only streetcars, but to automobiles as well. I am very concerned that someone is going to get hit crossing the slip lane to get to the pedestrian island on the other side. The slip lanes only have yield signs and the wide turning radii encourages fast, easy turns. Seems to me we should limit these slip lanes to streetcar use only, and force cars to make the sharp square turn on the other side of the pedestrian island. What are your thoughts? If you are involved in the design or implementation of the streetcar, has there ever been a discussion about this? Will there be steps to mitigate the danger to pedestrians at these intersections?

I'll try to find a photo to illustrate what I mean if it's not clear

[Ross MacLochness]

This is a zoomed in edit of one of Pete's aerial photos taken from the p180 thread.

In the photo, the black car is about to enter the slip lane.

This turn is wide and potentially dangerous but it isn't as wide as the other two (4th and Hudson and 10th/Robinson) Next time I'm out there I'll snap some pics.

[catch22]

Well there are fairly large pedestrian refuges in the center, so I would treat it as crossing any other 1 lane street. Just watch for traffic. I don’t think these are a huge deal.

[Ross MacLochness]

true they have pedestrian islands but the one in the image is much larger than the others. The other two would only be able to fit a few people. I see this as a minor convenience for fast turning that could potentially have severe consequences for pedestrians. Even if this set up isn't as dangerous as I think it could be, it absolutely is a step backwards in terms of traffic calming and pedestrian safety in these areas - especially after spending the $$$ and energy shortening the turning radii through the implementation of proj 180.

[Mott]

very nice article about KC streetcar in the NY Times, OKC gets a mention about our streetcar, I can remember going down to the old Kerr McGee building for swim workouts [the old Y is now gone] and downtown was empty. They are running it free by setting a tax zone on real estate connected to the streetcar.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/04/t...it-or-not.html.

[shawnw]

currently the downtown BID has special assessment rates for businesses connected to the canal and also for those connected to the underground. I suspect something similar could be done for the streetcar line, but seems like it would be quite the assessment in order to negate all fares. also I kind of doubt it could be done in time for BID 3.0 in 2020.

[anb]

I had similar concerns as Ross M. However, I think they should have the crosswalk button on the corner of the intersection instead of the island. Also, the yield sign is a bit confusing. If I have a green light and I am turning right onto Robinson from 10th then I should have the right-a-way right? I feel like a lot of left turners are just going for it then I have to hit my brakes.

Also, do we have a timeline on when the city will finish painting new lines to separate the lanes? Most people I see just drive down in the middle of what should be a two-lane street.

[anb]

I had similar concerns as Ross M. However, I think they should have the crosswalk button on the corner of the intersection instead of the island. Also, the yield sign is a bit confusing. If I have a green light and I am turning right onto Robinson from 10th then I should have the right-a-way right? I feel like a lot of left turners are just going for it then I have to hit my brakes.

Also, do we have a timeline on when the city will finish painting new lines to separate the lanes? Most people I see just drive down in the middle of what should be a two-lane street.

[Ross MacLochness]

Here are the other two intersections in question. Notice the wide turn lane with the suuuper wide turning radius paired with the tiny island.

[jedicurt]

Here are the other two intersections in question. Notice the wide turn lane with the suuuper wide turning radius paired with the tiny island.

where is that first pic taken? i have never heard of Chili Dog Express... has anyone eaten there? is there anything about it over in the food forum? lol

[Ross MacLochness]

4th and Hudson! They even have live music on the patio from time to time

[PaddyShack]

where is that first pic taken? i have never heard of Chili Dog Express... has anyone eaten there? is there anything about it over in the food forum? lol

It is across from the Bus hub

[jedicurt]

4th and Hudson! They even have live music on the patio from time to time

good to know... i will be checking it out soon

[shawnw]

It's tasty. I'm glad they're still in business, but wish they'd be open for dinner. I'd grab a dog on the way between getting off the bus and home.

[Urban Pioneer]

Regarding the pedestrian refuges... I can't really can't speak on it or be willing to form much of an opinion until I see the trains function through these right hand turns.

A few observations... two of the turn lanes are in areas not addressed by Project 180. I suspect that the Hudson and 4th instersection's triangle is smaller due to their attempt to create space for the bike lane that is supposed to be reintroduced along 4th. I don't think any of that has been painted yet.

Another observation is that while these are completely salient points, our project has gone out of its way to correct bad sidewalks, ramps, crossings in areas that are not within P180 but still downtown. I regularly walk the sections of route being completed to inspect the project and have noted as a pedestrian the marvelous improvements being generated.

Whether the sweep lanes are a product of Public Works or our engineers, I will inquire. It was not brought forth as a separate item for discussion or approval. We have however had many conversations in our meetings about the right turns as many of them have required property acquisition which did require separate approvals for each scenario.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^Thanks for the reply. I have been pleased with the fact that sidewalks/ada ramps etc outside P180 scope have been taken care of by the Streetcar project and overall I'm very happy with how everything is turning out. I'm only raising concerns about the pedestrian Islands and turn lanes bc I see a potential for danger that might not be thought about unless you are actually on the street walking around. If indeed these turn lanes do prove to be dangerous, it would be easy to slap some paint down making them streetcar lanes only, requiring cars to make a sharp right from the right most straight ahead lane rather than the wide turn yield lane.

[Urban Pioneer]

I'm only raising concerns about the pedestrian Islands and turn lanes bc I see a potential for danger that might not be thought about unless you are actually on the street walking around. If indeed these turn lanes do prove to be dangerous, it would be easy to slap some paint down making them streetcar lanes only, requiring cars to make a sharp right from the right most straight ahead lane rather than the wide turn yield lane.

Yeah I get it. And quite frankly these issues really only come to the fore when a person actually walks or bikes the areas being discussed. I am not sure exactly what all the motivators at each one of these scenarios are other than train clearances. Again though, I suspect the bike lane is a factor in one of them.

All salient points though. It won't be long before vehicle testing commences on the alignments and perhaps some of these things can be further discussed and dialed in if need be.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

I biked some of the tracks yesterday, noticed some low tree overhang on Hudson around 9th, where there looks to be some catanery wire? So will the city need to keep these areas trimmed back along the route?

[shawnw]

Are you sure it wasn't Robinson and 9th? There are no tracks/wire at Hudson/9th, but I believe there's a big tree on Robinson by the brick building on the SWC of 9/Robinson.

[Urban Pioneer]

I biked some of the tracks yesterday, noticed some low tree overhang on Hudson around 9th, where there looks to be some catanery wire? So will the city need to keep these areas trimmed back along the route?

Yes we will trim the trees.

[Urban Pioneer]

Tomorrow I will be giving a speech to the Coronado Heights Neighborhood Association at 6:30 about the streetcar system and MAPS. If any of you are active in that neighborhood association, feel free to come by and say hi. It is at Grace United Methodist.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

Are you sure it wasn't Robinson and 9th? There are no tracks/wire at Hudson/9th, but I believe there's a big tree on Robinson by the brick building on the SWC of 9/Robinson.

Yes, correct, I was thinking Hudson, good catch on that one.

[Ross MacLochness]

I suspect that the Hudson and 4th instersection's triangle is smaller due to their attempt to create space for the bike lane that is supposed to be reintroduced along 4th.

I walked by here again this morning and the pedestrian Island is built in the exact spot the bike lanes should go so I wonder how it will ultimately interact with the protected bike lane that is supposed to go through here.

[turnpup]

We were recently in Little Rock, AR. A really cool little city, by the way! Anyway, their downtown is nice, with what appears to be a lot of redevelopment of historic areas, similar perhaps to our Midtown. They have a streetcar line, but use the old-style cars rather than what we are about to have.

When we went to their Museum of Art, the people working the front entrance told us there had been a lot of controversy about what types of cars to use. They said that really, it wasn't the locals using the streetcars, but just tourist-types. We told them that we're hoping our "modern" streetcars will attract locals and tourists alike. Anyway, it was interesting to be interactive with streetcars and car traffic. My little girl (11 years) was quite intrigued with it, and said this was great "practice" for our upcoming line!

[HOT ROD]

lines