OAK (formerly Penn Central)

[KayneMo]

look at Penn into the business area
Attachment 14788

This is only a schematic drawing and that median is not set-in-stone.

[ditm4567]

Pete in your drawing like I said to you, they want to buy those 5 houses on 52nd odd numbers, this will lower our real estate values of our houses too, to have a business come into a residential area

They already own 3 out of the 5 houses they intend to use as a "buffer zone".

[David W]

They already own 3 out of the 5 houses they intend to use as a "buffer zone".

Pete said one to me, they own all the houses on Barnes, they already have done the $500 on them

[ditm4567]

Pete said one to me, they own all the houses on Barnes, they already have done the $500 on them

They paid $149k, $213k, and $215k for them.

[Lazio85]

I hope they contact the church about their sea of asphalt and provide a partnership with them to provide parking to the area, if needed. A much better land use needs to be discussed over here. Parking garage next to a parking lot that is used once a day every Sunday ... doesn't seem like something I would want to drive/walk/bike by every time going home.


SW Corner Penn & NW EXPY by lazio85, on Flickr

[Pete]

This is only a schematic drawing and that median is not set-in-stone.

If you look closely, you'll see the intersection at Penn is not changed from the current configuration, and I was told it will remain as-is.

[Pete]

BTW, I just looked at the appraisals for my home...

In one year and 17 days the appraisal increased by 11.8% and I have not made any improvements.

A bunch of homes in the surrounding neighborhoods are being renovated, even by flippers. There was one a couple of streets over from me that had a bunch of offers on the day it hit the market and it sold for more than the asking price:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...21880725_zpid/

[Mr. Blue Sky]

The neighborhood is not 'run down'. It's quite nice and property values have been steadily increasing.

The Penn Park and Registry buildings are quite full.


I'm generally for this development but I completely understand why those very close aren't crazy about the idea.

Pete is absolutely right. This is a nice area with tons of potential for this project. When you think of 50 Penn with the Belle Isle Brewery, Full Circle Books, and then Penn Square on the NE side of the intersection, Cheesecake factory, new Container Store on their pad site at Penn Square, Whiskey Cake, AMC inside the mall - I can't help but think this new development would be a huge success. This would help create a "super corner" that would be a big, big deal. Homeowners in the immediate area must have mixed feelings, but their property values would skyrocket with this project!

[Pete]

^

It's exactly why I bought in this neighborhood and I think it's fair to say I know a thing or two about all the various areas of OKC.

I can be downtown in 10 minutes or jump on I-44 at Penn and get anywhere else in the metro very quickly. Sam's, Aldi, Winco, Target, Lowe's, Winco, Sprouts and Penn Square are all within 2 miles and most only 1 mile.

Plus, I back up to the prettiest little park and have 1/3 acres with lots of mature trees.


I'd like to be able to walk more places where I could sit outside with my dogs but otherwise I love this neighborhood and have been encouraging all my friends to look here.

[onthestrip]

so why would I want to pay more taxes then GEEZ

In one post you argue that this will decrease your homes value (it wont) yet then you lament the fact it will go up? You are hard to please.

A far as paying more property taxes, you are going to do that regardless of this project. However, your assessed value by the county isnt likely to keep up with the market value, and you definitely wont pay more than 5% from previous year. Wanting your property value to stay flat because it might cost you $50 extra next year is very short sighted. Just remember that for about every $1 extra you have to pay in property taxes, your homes value will be worth around $1000 more, at minimum. If not, you can always contest your assessed value.

About the development, $15 million for 12 acres of dirt? Wow! Best of luck to them.

[shawnw]

I hope they take the opportunity to improve pedestrian access to cross both Penn and NW Exp.

[Pete]

My understanding is that they are hoping to model this development after Avalon in suburban Atlanta.

[Rover]

Great addition in a great location. Maybe we can get Lipsmackers to just move up the street a little to here.

[Urbanized]

If this happens it seems like it would qualify as the first really full-fledged lifestyle center (I know that has become a bit of a dirty word but I am specifically referring to full-blown mixed use) type development in OKC..? I know Chisholm Creek has strong elements of this (and started out even moreso), but carving it up for some of the larger uses - while still great and places I really enjoy - have somewhat compromised the full-blown walkable mixed use execution.

More suburban retrofits and strategic density will do amazing things for property values, sales tax collections and the quality of life for adjacent neighborhoods. What a great place to walk to from the surrounding neighborhoods.

Also worth pointing out that developments like this - and also the rising property values others were mentioning - spreading into the rest of OKC are the organic outgrowth of the past 20 years of investment in the core. Obviously other major influences here are proximity to NW Expressway, Penn, plus PSQ, etc, etc.. This really does have fantastic and previously-underutilized location. But when there is discussion and debate regarding the merits of continuing to invest in the core I hope that people connect the dots and understand that without MAPS and the subsequent efforts OKC has made in the center of the city, stuff like this would probably only be happening further and further out and in places where the sales taxes and property taxes didn't necessarily benefit OKC proper.

[bchris02]

If this happens it seems like it would qualify as the first really full-fledged lifestyle center (I know that has become a bit of a dirty word but I am specifically referring to full-blown mixed use) type development in OKC..? I know Chisholm Creek has strong elements of this (and started out even moreso), but carving it up for some of the larger uses - while still great and places I really enjoy - have somewhat compromised the full-blown walkable mixed use execution.

I've always wondered why OKC has never had this kind of development. They were going up like wildfire in the 2000s in cities across the country large and small. They were a dime-a-dozen when I lived in Charlotte and that was almost a decade ago now. Nonetheless, I think this kind of development is much needed here and hopefully this finally pulls it off.

[shawnw]

Something this has over Chisolm is that it's directly on an existing transit route (Rt 8) with a stop right at 50/Penn. And maybe there's a BRT connection in the future. While it's not terribly undoable to walk over to Rt 5 (May) from Chisolm, it's not at all convenient either.

[HangryHippo]

My understanding is that they are hoping to model this development after Avalon in suburban Atlanta.

That would certainly be a welcome addition.

[stlokc]

I think this is a very nice development, but am I the only one that worries that this is going to cannabalize the new Classen Curve / Triangle / Nichols Hills Plaza shopping areas?

[bchris02]

I think this is a very nice development, but am I the only one that worries that this is going to cannabalize the new Classen Curve / Triangle / Nichols Hills Plaza shopping areas?

Nothing is stopping Glimcher from getting started. As far as I know the NIMBY lawsuit has been settled. Regardless, Little Rock has several of these developments (and they coexist with Park Plaza Mall, their equivalent of Penn Square) and their metro is half the size of OKC. I think OKC is more than ready for both this development and the Glimcher development.

[Teo9969]

I think this is a very nice development, but am I the only one that worries that this is going to cannabalize the new Classen Curve / Triangle / Nichols Hills Plaza shopping areas?

Strengthen actually...Retail and restaurants thrive in density, especially if there are nearby residents who live in the area and represent a steady supply of customers.

The below outline represents possibly the most important retail sector of the city...it would be interesting to compare the retail health of this sector of the city to Memorial from Western to Hefner Parkway, and to I-240 from I-35 to I-44.



In terms of strategic city planning, this 5.5 square mile area probably comes in 2nd behind downtown in terms of importance to the development and health of the city. The only area I can think that might be more important long-term is Capitol Hill.

[shawnw]

Strengthen actually...Retail and restaurants thrive in density, especially if there are nearby residents who live in the area and represent a steady supply of customers.

The below outline represents possibly the most important retail sector of the city...it would be interesting to compare the retail health of this sector of the city to Memorial from Western to Hefner Parkway, and to I-240 from I-35 to I-44.



In terms of strategic city planning, this 5.5 square mile area probably comes in 2nd behind downtown in terms of importance to the development and health of the city. The only area I can think that might be more important long-term is Capitol Hill.

why go so far north with your boundaries? just wondering

[Teo9969]

why go so far north with your boundaries? just wondering

May from 50th to Hefner has done a better job than anywhere else in the city at constantly reinventing itself to stay relevant. It was alive and kicking in the 50s and still holding its own today in a way that 23rd and 39th have completely failed to do. It's even looking better poised going forward than NW Expressway west of Portland - which has been developed for significantly less time.

In regards to that specific area - obviously the north is less important, but Nichols Hills people pour a lot of money into the N. Western and N. May retail in those areas around Wilshire. Places like Beau's Wine Bin/Olive and Co and Gil's Clothing/Culinary Kitchen represent some sort of "limit" to the Nichols Hills shopping playground. Western is probably fancier than May - but we're still Oklahomans and will never be too fancy for run-o-the-mill retail. You could maybe even make an argument to stretch that May segment all the way to Uptown Grocery which is clearly aiming for the Nichols Hills crowd.

Anyway - I pray this development happens with no more than minor revisions to the plans (and preferably those revisions to enhance the site plan). This will be another major contributor to the area for retail and could help us concentrate our retail in such a way that could bring more high quality national chains. Additionally, this is the kind of development that, if it works, will push places like the owners of the Belle Isle Wal-Mart parking Crater to rethink the way that it uses its land.

[shawnw]

makes sense, thanks for the clarification

[PaddyShack]

Could there not be a bus/trolly line that ferries people from NH Plaza, Classen Curve, PSQ, and this new development? That would definitely bring all the retail together and provide customers an easier shopping/dining experience, IMO. Only having to park once and then stay all day would be nice given that Penn, NW Expressway, and Grand Blvd can get fairly congested at times.

[KayneMo]

If you look closely, you'll see the intersection at Penn is not changed from the current configuration, and I was told it will remain as-is.

Ah, I see. Thanks!