2018 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[Josh Ryan]

Josh - any idea when the June aviation activity report will be posted to flyokc.com? Thanks!

Sorry about that. I was out last week when the report came in. https://flyokc.com/june-2018-enplanement-report

[HangryHippo]

Sorry about that. I was out last week when the report came in. https://flyokc.com/june-2018-enplanement-report

No problem at all, thanks for the link! Traffic growth for AA is good to see.

[brianinok]

Sorry about that. I was out last week when the report came in. https://flyokc.com/june-2018-enplanement-report

Wow, growth (AA, really) shows no sign of slowing down. Hopefully they like what they are seeing in OKC (load factors, rates, etc.) and can be talked into Miami and/or LaGuardia soon.

[catch22]

Via holding steady at 20% load factor. This does not factor in their cancellations (which would actually boost their load factor by having fewer seats) but I prefer to not factor in cancels because statistically you should go off of what they sold and intended to operate. It’s the same reason that diversions that cancel don’t count towards an airports DOT totals because the passengers didn’t intend to fly there when they purchased a ticket.

[catch22]

Frontier scheduled has been extended. SAT ends. DEN increases to daily service, MCO holds on.

[HangryHippo]

Frontier scheduled has been extended. SAT ends. DEN increases to daily service, MCO holds on.

Is the SAT ending permanent? Was there just no traffic?

[catch22]

Is the SAT ending permanent? Was there just no traffic?

I’m not sure. It hasnt even started yet. The Frontier route planning department consists of a bottle of scotch, a map on the wall, and a handful of darts.

[HangryHippo]

I’m not sure. It hasnt even started yet. The Frontier route planning department consists of a bottle of scotch, a map on the wall, and a handful of darts.

Hahaha.

[gopokes88]

I’m not sure. It hasnt even started yet. The Frontier route planning department consists of a bottle of scotch, a map on the wall, and a handful of darts.

Where do I apply?

[no1cub17]

overbooked flights coming into okc, the question i have is where do these originate from?

my experience:

MSP-OKC (flight coming into okc) on Delta was a CRJ (maybe holds 70). My thought is the post 4thofJuly holiday has a boost of demand, hence:

it was overbooked this week by 5 for that flight(4702). so, they needed volunteers (me being one) and got 5 at $800 per. Whats the math with this, why not add a bigger aircraft?

You can't just create a larger aircraft out of thin air. Most airlines utilize fleets to maximum efficiency with usually very little in terms of spares. A bigger aircraft would likely require an entirely different set of crew; those also don't just appear out of thin air.

As catch explained airlines overbook flights all the time - even if they give out $4k in vouchers on one flight, they must still be more than making that up. One flight doesn't tell the whole story. And besides, Delta knows that giving out a voucher makes you more likely to buy your next ticket with Delta the next time.

[shawnw]

I wonder if, mathematically, they still count your original ticket purchase towards their numbers, because they aren't refunding you real cash. So in essence they're double dipping you and maybe that's part of why they're more than happy to give out those vouchers.

[GoThunder]

I wonder if, mathematically, they still count your original ticket purchase towards their numbers, because they aren't refunding you real cash. So in essence they're double dipping you and maybe that's part of why they're more than happy to give out those vouchers.

It probably isn't material to them, but this would be considered accounting fraud. They most likely defer the revenue until you use the voucher, since that is when the revenue is earned.

[shawnw]

Ah okay

[catch22]

Your ticket and your reservation are two separate things. When you purchase an airline fare, your money is parked in the ticket and you are issued a reservation backed by the funds of your ticket. When you go through the gate reader and your boarding pass is scanned your reservation uses the funds from your ticket and your ticket balance is essentially $0. The flight closes and your ticket and reservation are then closed out together.

If you don’t board, your reservation will be canceled or moved, but your ticket is still sitting there holding value. After 90 days (or 365 on Southwest) your ticket is considered abandoned and the value of the ticket is forfeited to the airline.

Most airlines charge a change fee which makes using your ticket after missing a flight more difficult or less desirable. But the option is still there to use the ticket value.

Even then, flights aren’t accounted for on a day-day basis, the flight is often looked at for P&L over a 30-90 day basis. They know some days they will lose money and some days they will make money, but they need to make money over a longer period of time longer than a per flight basis. Some flights exist only for feed and this the airline doesn’t care if it makes money or not, if it helps a strategic cause of airline loyalty in a market, or feeding flights at a hub. An example is DEN-COS makes United $0 directly, but likely helps other flights be more profitable due to connections; as well as ensuring front range market share and loyalty.

[Jersey Boss]

An individual who is bumped can demand cash instead of a voucher. Why tie yourself to the airline that overbooked you?

[catch22]

An individual who is bumped can demand cash instead of a voucher. Why tie yourself to the airline that overbooked you?

That is only the case for an involuntarily denied boarding. If you volunteer and accept you cannot demand something else.

[Jersey Boss]

That is only the case for an involuntarily denied boarding. If you volunteer and accept you cannot demand something else.

Thanks for providing the clarification. Here is a story of a passenger who got a travel voucher for 10k out of UNITED last March. They really did not want to pay cash. The story offers helpful hints to air travelers as well. First rule-never accept the first offer.
https://clark.com/travel/how-one-bum...r-from-united/

[catch22]

Why would you expect any company to? When your meal gets messed up at a restaurant they don’t hand you a couple $20’s, they give you a voucher to come back.

[shawnw]

Don't they just comp your meal?

[Jersey Boss]

Why would you expect any company to? When your meal gets messed up at a restaurant they don’t hand you a couple $20’s, they give you a voucher to come back.

Whoa there my man. I never said anything about "expecting" cash. What I did say it was an option, that you corrected to involuntary bump. I thanked you for the clarification. If I was involuntarily bumped I would expect cash as an option because that is one of the rules the airline industry operates under. Since you brought up expectations though, when I fly I do not expect to be subject to a sale job for the airline credit card when I am a captive audience at 10k altitude.

[catch22]

Whoa there my man. I never said anything about "expecting" cash. What I did say it was an option, that you corrected to involuntary bump. I thanked you for the clarification. If I was involuntarily bumped I would expect cash as an option because that is one of the rules the airline industry operates under. Since you brought up expectations though, when I fly I do not expect to be subject to a sale job for the airline credit card.

Perhaps you took my post in the wrong tone. I was simply saying that you shouldn’t expect any company to want to give away cash in lieu of store credit. It’s probably changed since these voucher amounts have increased so much, but back when the limit was $1000, only 20-30% of people ever redeemed the vouchers. Since the amounts are more I bet they are closer to 50%.

[Jersey Boss]

Thank you for the follow up as I did misread your tone. Imagine that on msg. board, huh? You make a great point on why airlines prefer the vouchers as far as people actually using them.

[catch22]

Another reason is the airline doesn’t want to involuntary anyone. An IDB is always an unhappy customer. They are never a returning customer, and they are likely going to make a big deal on social media (rightfully so). $10k spent on a voluntary is a kick in the groin to the bean counters, but it preserves some good will, it will likely not have a huge social media impact, and if they do use it to go on vacation those vacation pictures might be “thanks for the trip to hawaii United, not a bad trade for taking a later flight into Cincinnati last year”

It’s the best of the worst options. Now personally I don’t like the overselling, it’s a thorn in my side when I’m trying to commute to work or go on vacation. But I don’t make that policy, and overall it helps the bottom line which means it’ll be longer before the next layoff cycle.

[PaddyShack]

So this is a bit of a different topic, but why is it whenever I connect at a TX airport, I either am stuck in TX due to weather or late getting to TX due to weather or mechanical issues causing me to miss my connection. Then, when they try moving me to another flight most, if not all, flights to OKC are full with long standby lists and I usually have to wait a day before I get home. This has happened to me every time I have had a connection in TX, whether it be DFW, DAL, HOU, or IAH, no matter the airline. I will spend a little bit more just to not have a connection in TX. Another reason I like the SWA nonstop to BWI.

[aDark]

So this is a bit of a different topic, but why is it whenever I connect at a TX airport, I either am stuck in TX due to weather or late getting to TX due to weather or mechanical issues causing me to miss my connection. Then, when they try moving me to another flight most, if not all, flights to OKC are full with long standby lists and I usually have to wait a day before I get home. This has happened to me every time I have had a connection in TX, whether it be DFW, DAL, HOU, or IAH, no matter the airline. I will spend a little bit more just to not have a connection in TX. Another reason I like the SWA nonstop to BWI.

I'm so glad you said this. I thought I was crazy for thinking there might be a weather/mechanical issues conspiracy for DFW flights returning to OKC. I've had it happen on both DFW->OKC flights I've had this year. A couple we traveled with have experienced this 3 times this year! We didn't have to stay over night, but our flight was hours later than it was supposed to be. My stepdad flew up two weeks ago. Same. Story.