Homeless people

[StuckInTheCapitol825]

I have many black friends. I listen to rap music. I watch BET. I subscribe to JET. I speak jive. I am in fact a black man. African American to you, thanks. Assume much?

Because you made it seem that way because the big bad homeless guy was going to hurt you because you weren't in your little safe neighborhood.

If you don't like the world outside of your house, do something to make it better or stay inside.

[jerrywall]

Just to be clear again. Addiction and alcoholism are not choices and no one decides to be homeless so they can enjoy sitting outside in Oklahoma weather.

[soonermike81]

Just to be clear again. Addiction and alcoholism are not choices and no one decides to be homeless so they can enjoy sitting outside in Oklahoma weather.

But the lifestyle that one lives leading to addiction/alcoholism is a choice, correct? At what stage in the cycle do we start holding people accountable for their “choices?”

[jerrywall]

But the lifestyle that one lives leading to addiction/alcoholism is a choice, correct? At what stage in the cycle do we start holding people accountable for their “choices?”

No. It's much more complex. It's a disease with many causes. Yes, recovery requires some responsibility but tradition 1 as a friend of Bill is "Our common welfare should come first".

Knowing it's a disease doesnt free anyone from consequences but we also dont need to treat those suffering as monsters or lepers. They need help, not fear.

[hoya]

I was at the Spoon concert at The Jones Assembly recently and was accosted on the way to my car by a homeless man who was very angry that I was not interested in stopping to talk to him about whatever he was wanting. He followed me to my car and urged me to roll down my window. When I started the car and began to back out he lost it and started screaming and cursing and waving his arms. He continued acting this way as he walked across the street and to the gas station. Screaming the entire time. I decided to drive through the McDonald's there on Sheridan and saw 4 homeless men come out and walk around the building. There were two people in an old car in the parking lot that were clearly homeless. Then 2 other guys walked up to the other 4 guys and they all seemed to know each other. These people were all dressed normal with backpacks and they all had smartphones. They are clearly well organized and they didn't appear to be the least bit worried about their situation. In fact, quite laid back. Except for the crazy guy earlier. They all headed south towards I40 together. I went home to the cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills. I won't be going back. There is a strange dynamic at play in that area. New construction and young money mixed with old transmission shops and vagrants. Somebody is gonna get hurt.

So... a man with mental health issues tried to ask you for money, then walked off talking to himself. After that you saw some poor people.

Did I get that right?

[dankrutka]

But the lifestyle that one lives leading to addiction/alcoholism is a choice, correct? At what stage in the cycle do we start holding people accountable for their “choices?”

I mean, we're talking about people who are homeless who have an addiction. The natural consequences are staggering. What do you mean by "holding people accountable?"

As a person and society, I believe we have a responsibility to help those in need. I guess I just don't feel a need to hold others accountable. Everyone deserves dignity no matter their mistakes. I hope that if I ever fell into addiction that others would reach out a hand. Homeless people have very diverse experiences from veterans with PTSD to people who have faced tragedy to people with mental disorders to people whose lives fell apart financially:



More than anything, there's a lot of stereotyping of homeless people happening from a couple posters in this thread. Homeless people are "bad," "addicts," etc. They're more than that. I worked on a project with elementary students where we investigated homelessness and the most important part to me was finding all the positive things homeless people do in our community. Here's an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVlUolvlPDI

Anyway, I wish we'd at least quit talking about "homeless people" like they're all the same person.

[hoya]

The City Rescue Mission is one block south of the Jones Assembly. There will be some homeless people in that area. Other than occasionally asking for spare change, 99.9% of them are going to leave people alone. You're much more likely to be threatened by some drunk douchebag inside the building than you are by a homeless person outside of it.

Back when I was too cheap to pay for parking, I would park on the street in this area. I did that for 5 years, and never once had a problem. Nobody ever bothered me, my truck never got so much as a scratch. Downtown OKC is remarkably safe.

[Rover]

But the lifestyle that one lives leading to addiction/alcoholism is a choice, correct? At what stage in the cycle do we start holding people accountable for their “choices?”

Like the man downtown on the streets who was a high level corporate executive whose wife and three daughters were killed in a car wreck. He had severe depression afterwards, started drinking, lost his job, went deeper into depression and continued to become a severe alcoholic. Lost everything, became unemployable and is on the streets. Are these the “choices” you are talking about?

[Video Expert]

Like the man downtown on the streets who was a high level corporate executive whose wife and three daughters were killed in a car wreck. He had severe depression afterwards, started drinking, lost his job, went deeper into depression and continued to become a severe alcoholic. Lost everything, became unemployable and is on the streets. Are these the “choices” you are talking about?

Maybe I'm missing your point, but are you saying that EVERY high level corporate executive who loses their spouse and kids in a car wreck becomes depressed, drinks heavily, and then become homeless because they have no "choice" but to end up that way?

[jerrywall]

Maybe I'm missing your point, but are you saying that EVERY high level corporate executive who loses their spouse and kids in a car wreck becomes depressed, drinks heavily, and then become homeless because they have no "choice" but to end up that way?

Maybe it's simply that they're already paying the consequences for their behavior (really disease) so maybe treating them as subhuman isn't required?

[Rover]

Maybe I'm missing your point, but are you saying that EVERY high level corporate executive who loses their spouse and kids in a car wreck becomes depressed, drinks heavily, and then become homeless because they have no "choice" but to end up that way?

Of course not...that would be a stupid as saying everyone who is homeless is there by lifestyle choices. But, I will say I heard a LOT of stories of how tragic and/or sudden traumatic events triggered downward spirals. I do understanding the effort to discredit my witnessing by immediately going to the extreme “everyone” argument.

I think a lot of people fail to recognize how they have been positively blessed, attributing all their good fortune to their own credit. If they admit unearned bad things happen to good people then they have to admit unearned good things happen to people, including themselves. This is Old Testament thinking that if you are poor or sick you must have done something bad. Maybe they should read Jobe.

[dankrutka]

Maybe I'm missing your point, but are you saying that EVERY high level corporate executive who loses their spouse and kids in a car wreck becomes depressed, drinks heavily, and then become homeless because they have no "choice" but to end up that way?

No, I think the point is that saying people had "choices" it's their "fault" is a way to dismiss their circumstances and humanity. Since they had choices, who cares, right? I think the point is that when we take the time to learn about some people's lives then we see that it's a lot more complicated. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose the most important people in my life in an instant. I understand how that could lead to depression. I can't imagine what it's like to face the trauma of war. I understand why a vet could develop PTSD and struggle to function and end up homeless. The point is the homeless population includes people from diverse circumstances that are often tragic and understandable.

The premise of this thread is stereotyping an entire group of people. It explains one or two bad incidents with one or two people and then uses those incidents to describe the entire homeless population as threats that we must keep far away. This type of dehumanizing rhetoric is destructive. OKC's homeless population is only a "problem" if you don't see them as human beings.

[Steven Myers]

So... a man with mental health issues tried to ask you for money, then walked off talking to himself. After that you saw some poor people.

Did I get that right?

No you did not.

[Steven Myers]

Because you made it seem that way because the big bad homeless guy was going to hurt you because you weren't in your little safe neighborhood.

If you don't like the world outside of your house, do something to make it better or stay inside.

Your original response "why did you ever leave your white oasis?" was presumptive and racist. Especially considering many of the homeless I saw were white. Thanks for your harsh non-concern for my well being regarding a stranger accosting me. That made the world a better place today.

[Video Expert]

Of course not...that would be a stupid as saying everyone who is homeless is there by lifestyle choices. But, I will say I heard a LOT of stories of how tragic and/or sudden traumatic events triggered downward spirals. I do understanding the effort to discredit my witnessing by immediately going to the extreme “everyone” argument.

I think a lot of people fail to recognize how they have been positively blessed, attributing all their good fortune to their own credit. If they admit unearned bad things happen to good people then they have to admit unearned good things happen to people, including themselves. This is Old Testament thinking that if you are poor or sick you must have done something bad. Maybe they should read Jobe.

I wasn't discrediting your witnessing or trying to be extreme. I just was wanting to make sure I understood your point, that's all. I completely agree that tragic/sudden traumatic events can lead to downward spirals for people. However, I would simply add that when "bad things happen to good people," that also doesn't just automatically absolve those persons affected from any personal responsibility whatsoever.

[Steven Myers]

Just to be clear again. Addiction and alcoholism are not choices and no one decides to be homeless so they can enjoy sitting outside in Oklahoma weather.

Not every homeless person is addicted or alcoholic.

[Steven Myers]

Like the man downtown on the streets who was a high level corporate executive whose wife and three daughters were killed in a car wreck. He had severe depression afterwards, started drinking, lost his job, went deeper into depression and continued to become a severe alcoholic. Lost everything, became unemployable and is on the streets. Are these the “choices” you are talking about?

He chose to "start drinking" and not stop.

[Rover]

He chose to "start drinking" and not stop.

If there was any question about you being a troll, now it is obvious you are.

[Steven Myers]

No, I think the point is that saying people had "choices" it's their "fault" is a way to dismiss their circumstances and humanity. Since they had choices, who cares, right? I think the point is that when we take the time to learn about some people's lives then we see that it's a lot more complicated. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose the most important people in my life in an instant. I understand how that could lead to depression. I can't imagine what it's like to face the trauma of war. I understand why a vet could develop PTSD and struggle to function and end up homeless. The point is the homeless population includes people from diverse circumstances that are often tragic and understandable.

The premise of this thread is stereotyping an entire group of people. It explains one or two bad incidents with one or two people and then uses those incidents to describe the entire homeless population as threats that we must keep far away. This type of dehumanizing rhetoric is destructive. OKC's homeless population is only a "problem" if you don't see them as human beings.

The "premise of this thread" is not stereotyping anyone. I never said homeless people are not human beings. This a a bad characterisation of what is being discussed here. I am not trying to be "destructive" to anyone. How about some solutions instead of this.

[Steven Myers]

If there was any question about you being a troll, now it is obvious you are.

When people run out of real responses they shout troll. It doesn't make it so. I expressed my opinion. That's not trolling.

[dankrutka]

The "premise of this thread" is not stereotyping anyone. I never said homeless people are not human beings. This a a bad characterisation of what is being discussed here. I am not trying to be "destructive" to anyone. How about some solutions instead of this.

Okay, that's fair. While I believe your original post was filled with assumptions and drew some pretty distant conclusions on limited evidence, I shouldn't say that post was "stereotyping." Here's the premise of your post:
- You were accosted by one homeless man
- You later saw 4 unrelated, normally dressed people with smartphones who were "laid back," "organized," and "clearly homeless"
- You escaped home to a safe place away from homeless people and you "won't be going back" because "Somebody is gonna get hurt."
I'll retract that you stereotyped in the original post. I apologize if I mischaracterized that post. However, stereotyping quickly came out in follow up posts so the overall point still stands, in my opinion.

[Video Expert]

The "premise of this thread" is not stereotyping anyone. I never said homeless people are not human beings. This a a bad characterisation of what is being discussed here. I am not trying to be "destructive" to anyone. How about some solutions instead of this.

You recounted an incident in which you did not feel safe being accosted by a homeless person who followed you in a parking lot, made some general observations about several other homeless people in the area, and expressed an opinion about the level of safety in the area due to your encounter. As a result...you are a dehumanizing, stereotyping scumbag who obviously believes ALL homeless people are "subhuman" threats and cannot even begin to comprehend that most homeless people are in their predicament due to absolutely no fault of their own. And now you must pay for your inappropriate thoughts by those much more tolerant, honorable and noble than you sir.

I do wonder however if the responses would have been the same had you left out the unnecessary reference to returning to the "cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills" though? I tend to think there would have still been backlash to your OP anyway, But I think that's what got you in real trouble and definitely intensified a good portion of the responses.

[jerrywall]

Not every homeless person is addicted or alcoholic.

Never said that. Thanks for playing.

[jerrywall]

He chose to "start drinking" and not stop.

People with clinical depression should just choose to be happy, too. Right?

[Steven Myers]

Okay, that's fair. While I believe your original post was filled with assumptions and drew some pretty distant conclusions on limited evidence, I shouldn't say that post was "stereotyping." Here's the premise of your post:
- You were accosted by one homeless man
- You later saw 4 unrelated, normally dressed people with smartphones who were "laid back," "organized," and "clearly homeless"
- You escaped home to a safe place away from homeless people and you "won't be going back" because "Somebody is gonna get hurt."
I'll retract that you stereotyped in the original post. I apologize if I mischaracterized that post. However, stereotyping quickly came out in follow up posts so the overall point still stands, in my opinion.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. You somehow think that you know better than me (who was actually there) that these people weren't homeless, in an area with several homeless facilities and encampments nearby. Why are you going to such a great deal of effort to discredit me and my claims? So you don't believe my account or think I have some sort of an agenda to hate on homeless people? Whatever. I don't care. Your snark in the form of a derogatory recap is helpful to nobody.