2018 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[OUman]

Not sure if you missed it but the article does say that the hub would once again be MKE.

And of course, like no1cub17 said the chances of getting a hub at OKC are slim to none. Considering what we're getting though in recent months, I'd say we're doing quite well. If we do break the 4 million mark this year, that will bode even better for future increases in flights and destinations. A hub is very unlikely though.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
Weird, I thought for a minute that might be the same brand (Air Midwest) that I used to fly from Wichita to OKC (yes, this was a real thing) in the eighties to visit my family down here. My dad would buy me a ticket that cost about the same as a Greyhound ticket (actually at the time it was Trailways). I remember it being like $35 each way or something. Mom would take me to the airport in Wichita, flight would last less than an hour (turboprop if I recall) and Dad would pick me up at Will Rogers. I think we did this three or four times (plenty of bus trips too).

[gopokes88]

Not sure if you missed it but the article does say that the hub would once again be MKE.

And of course, like no1cub17 said the chances of getting a hub at OKC are slim to none. Considering what we're getting though in recent months, I'd say we're doing quite well. If we do break the 4 million mark this year, that will bode even better for future increases in flights and destinations. A hub is very unlikely though.

They used to have a hub in Kansas City. With some growth and time they’ll need more than just one.

Basically any hope at all for a hub will come from something like this. It’s still slim

[OUman]

^^^^^^^
Weird, I thought for a minute that might be the same brand (Air Midwest) that I used to fly from Wichita to OKC (yes, this was a real thing) in the eighties to visit my family down here. My dad would buy me a ticket that cost about the same as a Greyhound ticket (actually at the time it was Trailways). I remember it being like $35 each way or something. Mom would take me to the airport in Wichita, flight would last less than an hour (turboprop if I recall) and Dad would pick me up at Will Rogers. I think we did this three or four times (plenty of bus trips too).

Yeah, Air Midwest was actually based in Wichita, where it had a hub, as well as a hub at the Kansas City airport. The airline also operated to/from Enid and Ponca City for a while. This was when jet fuel was a lot cheaper. Later on though, the airline was bought by Mesa and operated for various airlines as a feeder carrier for their respective umbrella brands (United Express, US Airways Express, Trans World Express, etc).

[benjico]

I grew up in Wisconsin so Midwest Express was all I flew growing up. They always had very comfortable seating and would serve complimentary warm chocolate chip cookies - which as a kid was all you could want in an airline. I believe in the later years they created a second hub in Kansas City.

[PaddyShack]

^^^^^^^
Weird, I thought for a minute that might be the same brand (Air Midwest) that I used to fly from Wichita to OKC (yes, this was a real thing) in the eighties to visit my family down here. My dad would buy me a ticket that cost about the same as a Greyhound ticket (actually at the time it was Trailways). I remember it being like $35 each way or something. Mom would take me to the airport in Wichita, flight would last less than an hour (turboprop if I recall) and Dad would pick me up at Will Rogers. I think we did this three or four times (plenty of bus trips too).

So I looked up their fleet and I got to say I would love this set up for regional flights around OKC. A 1-1 setup seems pretty nice, even if it is turboprop.

[OUman]

Quite a few DFW diversions this morning at OKC due to weather at DFW and DAL, mostly AA flights.

[baralheia]

Not even just global connectivity, but if you want to fly to a city with fewer than 500-700k people, Southwest simply doesn’t fly there. The other carriers have a higher cost network because they are willing to fly into Rock Springs, WY, Gainesville, FL, and Santa Fe, NM.

Southwest doesn’t want to service those markets, and thus they consolidate all of their traffic to only the busiest of routes between the middle to large cities. They go for bulk traffic while the major network carriers are willing to chase the smallest of markets to the largest of international cities. They have higher costs because of the infrastructure tire required to do that. .

Apologies if this was already noted elsewhere, but this isn't 100% true. One example that immediately springs to mind is that WN flies to KMAF (Midland International) in west Texas. The entire Midland-Odessa CSA population was estimated at only 326,115 in 2015, and Midland itself only accounted for 132,950 residents. However, I'm not quite sure how much of an outlier that is.

[catch22]

Apologies if this was already noted elsewhere, but this isn't 100% true. One example that immediately springs to mind is that WN flies to KMAF (Midland International) in west Texas. The entire Midland-Odessa CSA population was estimated at only 326,115 in 2015, and Midland itself only accounted for 132,950 residents. However, I'm not quite sure how much of an outlier that is.

Midland was opened when SWA was an intra-Texas airline catering to oil executives. If that were not the case, Midland would not even be able to dream of even talking to Southwest today. They are only in the small Texas cities because they have a 40 year history at them. Outside of Texas how many small cities under 500k people can Southwest take you to?

[catch22]

Frontier will be ending SAN-OKC as of Aug 11. It was listed as seasonal, however it was mentioned as ending in a press release regarding new routes out of SAN. Usually a route that is seasonal does not get mentioned that it’s ending unless it’s not planned to resume.

[Jersey Boss]

Midland was opened when SWA was an intra-Texas airline catering to oil executives. If that were not the case, Midland would not even be able to dream of even talking to Southwest today. They are only in the small Texas cities because they have a 40 year history at them. Outside of Texas how many small cities under 500k people can Southwest take you to?

Portland ME. < 100K

[catch22]

Portland ME. < 100K

Portland Maine metro pop. 519k.

Next?

[OUman]

For those of us curious: AUS YTD. Pretty sure at this rate the yearly total for this year will crack 15 million. That might turn out to be a low estimate, as the busiest months are still not in yet, plus, AUS gets loads of passengers for the race and then of course you have the usual holiday traffic. Something tells me that east concourse expansion of the main terminal is not going to suffice.

[HangryHippo]

For those of us curious: AUS YTD. Pretty sure at this rate the yearly total for this year will crack 15 million. That might turn out to be a low estimate, as the busiest months are still not in yet, plus, AUS gets loads of passengers for the race and then of course you have the usual holiday traffic. Something tells me that east concourse expansion of the main terminal is not going to suffice.

Have the Via Air flights from OKC started yet? If so, how are they doing?

[damonsmuz]

So, OKC-San Diego does not look to be returning, huh? How were the loads on that route?

[catch22]

Portland Maine metro pop. 519k.

Next?

Here’s every US city southwest serves with its metro population.


Albuquerque, NM - ABQ 909k
Albany, NY - ALB 1.1M
Amarillo, TX - AMA 309k
Atlanta, GA - ATL 5.7M
Austin, TX - AUS 2.0 M
Hartford, CT - BDL 1.2 M
Birmingham, AL - BHM 1.1M
Nashville, TN - BNA 1.9M
Boise, ID - BOI 664k
Boston Logan, MA - BOS 4.6M
Buffalo/Niagara, NY - BUF 1.1M
Burbank, CA - BUR (LA MSA 13.1M)
Baltimore/Washington, MD - BWI 2.7M
Charleston, SC - CHS 744k
Cleveland, OH - CLE 2.1M
Charlotte, NC - CLT 2.5M
Columbus, OH - CMH 2.1M
Corpus Christi, TX - CRP 443k
Cincinnati, OH - CVG 2.1M
Dallas (Love Field), TX - DAL 6.4M
Washington (Reagan), DC - DCA 6.1M
Denver, CO - DEN 2.8M
Des Moines, IA - DSM 645k
Detroit, MI - DTW 4.3M
Panama City Beach, FL - ECP 168k
El Paso, TX - ELP 838k
New York/Newark, NJ - EWR 20.3M
Ft. Lauderdale, FL - FLL 5.7M
Flint, MI - FNT 415k
Spokane, WA - GEG 556k
Grand Rapids, MI - GRR 1.0M
Greenville/Spartanburg, SC - GSP 895k
Houston (Hobby), TX - HOU 6.3M
Harlingen, TX - HRL 406k
Washington (Dulles), DC - IAD 6.1M
Wichita, KS - ICT 644k
Indianapolis, IN - IND 2.0M
Long Island/Islip, NY - ISP 7.8M
Jacksonville, FL - JAX 1.5M
Las Vegas, NV - LAS 2.2M
Los Angeles, CA - LAX 13.1M
Lubbock, TX - LBB 314k
New York (LaGuardia), NY - LGA 20.3M
Long Beach, CA - LGB (LA MSA 13.1M)
Little Rock, AR - LIT 724k
Midland/Odessa, TX - MAF 295k
Kansas City, MO - MCI 2.1M
Orlando, FL - MCO 2.4M
Chicago (Midway), IL - MDW 9.5M
Memphis, TN - MEM 1.3M
Manchester, NH - MHT 406k
Milwaukee, WI - MKE 1.6M
Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN - MSP 3.6M
New Orleans, LA - MSY 1.2M
Oakland, CA - OAK (Bay Area 7.7M)
Oklahoma City, OK - OKC 1.3M
Omaha, NE - OMA 924k
Ontario/LA, CA - ONT (LA MSA 13.1M)
Norfolk, VA - ORF 1.6M
West Palm Beach, FL - PBI 5.8M
Portland, OR - PDX 2.4M
Philadelphia, PA - PHL 6.1M
Phoenix, AZ - PHX 4.7M
Pittsburgh, PA - PIT 2.3M
Pensacola, FL - PNS 461k
Providence, RI - PVD 1.6M
Portland, ME - PWM 519k
Raleigh/Durham, NC - RDU 2.1M
Richmond, VA - RIC 1.2M
Reno/Tahoe, NV - RNO 425k
Rochester, NY - ROC 1.1M
Ft. Myers, FL - RSW 77k
San Diego, CA - SAN 3.3M
San Antonio, TX - SAT 2.4M
Louisville, KY - SDF 1.3M
Seattle/Tacoma, WA - SEA 3.7M
San Francisco, CA - SFO 7.7M
San Jose, CA - SJC (Bay Area 7.7M)
Salt Lake City, UT - SLC 1.1M
Sacramento, CA - SMF 2.1M
Orange County/Santa Ana, CA - SNA LA 13.1M
St. Louis, MO - STL 2.8M
Tampa, FL - TPA 3.0M
Tulsa, OK - TUL 961k
Tucson, AZ - TUS 1.0M

[catch22]

Every city under 500k fits the following profiles:

A) Texas city
B) in a highly populated region
C) has high volumes of leisure traffic

Are we done discussing the outlier cities to Southwest’s core strategy now?

[OUman]

Have the Via Air flights from OKC started yet? If so, how are they doing?

Yeah, the Via Air flights have begun. Initial loads posted by someone else earlier in this thread were around 20% or so. Catch did mention they will get better as the summer goes along.

[HangryHippo]

Yeah, the Via Air flights have begun. Initial loads posted by someone else earlier in this thread were around 20% or so. Catch did mention they will get better as the summer goes along.

I thought I had seen that, but couldn't find the post. Thanks!

[amocore]

So, OKC-San Diego does not look to be returning, huh? How were the loads on that route?

That is disappointing ! But at least they are adding San Antonio the day after.

I really hope they stick with the OKC market

[LakeEffect]

Every city under 500k fits the following profiles:

A) Texas city
B) in a highly populated region
C) has high volumes of leisure traffic

Are we done discussing the outlier cities to Southwest’s core strategy now?

Facts are awesome.

[PaddyShack]

Is Via the only nonstop service we have to AUS?

[OUman]

Is Via the only nonstop service we have to AUS?

At the moment, yes. As a side note, Expressjet tried this route back in '07 and failed. One might recall Expressjet started its own, independent operation with ERJ-145s, and had a bunch of routes all across the southern and western states. If memory serves me, at OKC Expressjet launched service between OKC and AUS, ABQ, SAN, SMF, SAT and ONT. Neither lasted for long, and eventually the whole independent operation was shut down since it was losing money. Things have changed since then though and hopefully Via will have better results.

[gopokes88]

At the moment, yes. As a side note, Expressjet tried this route back in '07 and failed. One might recall Expressjet started its own, independent operation with ERJ-145s, and had a bunch of routes all across the southern and western states. If memory serves me, at OKC Expressjet launched service between OKC and AUS, ABQ, SAN, SMF, SAT and ONT. Neither lasted for long, and eventually the whole independent operation was shut down since it was losing money. Things have changed since then though and hopefully Via will have better results.

If expressjet launches in say I dk 2002 it might have been successful but 08

[catch22]

OKX-PHL off to a good start. The flight is booked full today (76/76) and tomorrow the first flight is booked about 75% and the second flight is full.

Only one flight today for scheduling purposes. (Don’t have to ferry a flight in last night)