Homeless people

[Steven Myers]

I was at the Spoon concert at The Jones Assembly recently and was accosted on the way to my car by a homeless man who was very angry that I was not interested in stopping to talk to him about whatever he was wanting. He followed me to my car and urged me to roll down my window. When I started the car and began to back out he lost it and started screaming and cursing and waving his arms. He continued acting this way as he walked across the street and to the gas station. Screaming the entire time. I decided to drive through the McDonald's there on Sheridan and saw 4 homeless men come out and walk around the building. There were two people in an old car in the parking lot that were clearly homeless. Then 2 other guys walked up to the other 4 guys and they all seemed to know each other. These people were all dressed normal with backpacks and they all had smartphones. They are clearly well organized and they didn't appear to be the least bit worried about their situation. In fact, quite laid back. Except for the crazy guy earlier. They all headed south towards I40 together. I went home to the cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills. I won't be going back. There is a strange dynamic at play in that area. New construction and young money mixed with old transmission shops and vagrants. Somebody is gonna get hurt.

[dankrutka]

With the limited information from this story I thought of a few things that could be helpful... or not. I've been in that area quite a bit (especially considering I don't live in Oklahoma) as a pedestrian and cyclist and I've never encountered a problem. That's just my experience though. But I can say that with the new apartments opening and more "eyes on the street," it's bound to be a safer area for everyone (including the homeless). I don't know if you need to dismiss the entire area. Heck, it's only a few blocks from the police department if you ever need help.

Second, if I'm reading your story correctly, there seems to a difference between the homeless population and a different group of people you're describing. Is that correct? It's just important not to lump everyone into one group if their circumstances and affiliations are different.

Lastly, a decent percentage of homeless people aren't simply "crazy," but often suffer from psychological disorders like paranoid schizophrenia or some form of bipolar disorder. These disorders make it hard to function and can be the reason they become and stay homeless (related: our country is utterly failing at supporting people with disorders). I am not at all dismissing your concerns because these disorders can in some cases lead to erratic or violent behavior, but it's just important context. In many cases, the people you encounter like the person who came to your car may also be in far more danger and in need of help too.

Anyway, if you think this is serious, you might report your encounter to the Jones, OKCPD, and local homeless shelters to make sure they have this information.

[Midtowner]

One local homeless man is an acquaintance of mine from before his homelessness. He was a law student at OCU about 10 years ago. He graduated. I doubt he passed the Bar. From what I can tell, now suffers from schizophrenia. I wouldn't call him a close friend, but I know a lot about his situation, and I typically open up my pocketbook to him when I see him, which is several times a week.

I can't imagine the hell he has to go through with no viable treatment options in this state.

[stile99]

I'm just wondering what criteria made it clear they were homeless when they had 'normal' clothes, backpacks, smartphones, and a car. The "went home to the cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills" gives me a few possible ideas, but I don't want to assume.

[StuckInTheCapitol825]

I went home to the cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills.

My goodness, sir. Why did you ever leave your white oasis?

[Roger S]

Large percentage of them have mental health problems. It's not uncommon to hear them talking, or even arguing, with themselves. I've always just shown them some courtesy and give them simple yes or no answers to their questions until they move on. It has always kept things from escalating.

Having worked down here 20+ years I can tell you it's much safer now than at any point in those 20+ years I've had an office down here.

5 years ago there were days I didn't feel safe walking to my car in the dark and now I feel comfortable walking the mile, and back, to the Chesapeake to catch a Thunder game.

[Pete]

^

Exactly.

I am down in that area all the time, usually after dark. Have never felt unsafe.

Keep in mind there will soon be hundreds of apartment dwellers down there and a bunch more restaurants and bars. The area is changing as rapidly as any in OKC.

[rezman]

A couple Sunday's ago, I left the comfy, safe confines of my Edmond home and attended the Church Under The Bridge, which takes place on Virginia Ave, underneath the OKC boulevard bridge, every Sunday, rain or shine. There is a huge need for folks down there. For many, it's the only good meal they've had all week. It's amazing the joy that I saw on the faces of people who for those couple hours, didn't have to worry about anything. I will definitely be going back again.

[CloudDeckMedia]

Curse the darkness or light a candle. There are many organizations that would welcome an enthusiastic person to help them meet their mission.

[Anonymous.]

This is because the Jones (and most of western edge of Film Row) is basically intruding on the homeless outreach hub of Oklahoma City. The entire area is going to have to grow together and adapt. This will be a big challenge for not only the transients, but also the non-poverty classes to get comfortable with such dynamics.

Within yards of the Jones you have: the large City Rescue Mission facility, New Life Affiliates facility, Refuge OKC complex and just down the street is the Jesus House complex. Just to the south and west you have an industrial complex that is ripe for people squatting and camping in the area.

[Pete]

It wasn't that long ago that basically everything west of Hudson was filled with homeless, as there was little else there.

Redevelopment keeps squeezing them out of areas and that trend is only going to continue.

[PaddyShack]

How effective has the Curbside Chronicle been? I have seen some of their success stories, but I was wondering if anybody on here has a bigger picture effect that you could share.

[mugofbeer]

One local homeless man is an acquaintance of mine from before his homelessness. He was a law student at OCU about 10 years ago. He graduated. I doubt he passed the Bar. From what I can tell, now suffers from schizophrenia. I wouldn't call him a close friend, but I know a lot about his situation, and I typically open up my pocketbook to him when I see him, which is several times a week.

I can't imagine the hell he has to go through with no viable treatment options in this state.

I don't think there are viable options for treatment in any state for those who don't want treatment. The vast majority of homeless are not "down on their luck" but have drug and/or alcohol addictions and/or mental problems. Until there can be some sort of legal way for people, such as your friend, to be forced into treatment, there will never be a resolution to the homeless problem anywhere in the country. I can tell you that the problem is far worse in many places in the country, such as here in Denver, than it is in OKC.

[dankrutka]

I can't remember where it is (maybe Salt Lake City, maybe not) that the city just provided housing for the homeless and it's proven both cheaper and far more successful. Basically, they said, instead of waiting for you to get your life back together to find housing, we're going to provide you housing to help you get your life back together. Turns out that it led to far less problems in a lot of areas that resulted in both a better solution and saved money. At least that's how I remember reading it.

[Pete]

I don't think there are viable options for treatment in any state for those who don't want treatment. The vast majority of homeless are not "down on their luck" but have drug and/or alcohol addictions and/or mental problems. Until there can be some sort of legal way for people, such as your friend, to be forced into treatment, there will never be a resolution to the homeless problem anywhere in the country. I can tell you that the problem is far worse in many places in the country, such as here in Denver, than it is in OKC.

As a percentage, I'm not sure many places are better than OKC. We have a huge homeless / indigant problem.

Also, while their are resourses there isn't necessarily the long-term care (mental, adiction, life skills, job transition) and certainly not enough outreach whereby you have squads of people and vehicles out letting people know what is available, offering on-the-spot treatment for more serious problems, and transportant to where they can get help.

I ran a homeless outreach program in Los Angeles for 7 years. I know a fair amount about this issue.

[mugofbeer]

Bless you for running the program so you, of all people know the root causes.

Recent articles about the problems in any of the west coast cities indicate the problems there are far worse than OKC. Maybe this is one of those things you have to go see one city, then go to another and see how apparent it is. I have recently been to San Diego, Portland and Seattle and the homeless are far more numerous than when I go to OKC.

Come to Denver and see the park downtown between the State Capitol and the City/County building. It is full of homeless and drug abusers on a daily basis. Do like my wife and walk the trails within the city and see homeless encampments along the creeks and rivers. Walk or bike along Cherry Creek near downtown and see them under every bridge and in the bushes alongside the creek. See the underwear, excrement, needles, bottles in all these places that are fouling the creeks and rivers. News items warn those trying to keep the garbage down to not do it because of the danger of getting stuck by a needle or catching something from the pee in bottles they pick up. Colorado's pot laws have generated a lot of revenue for the city/state but a side effect has been a large number of people coming to the city to get involved in the industry only to find out it is pretty much full. The city does its best to keep up but, like everywhere, it is a problem.

As far as those programs in OKC, no, I am not familiar with them. What I am familiar with is that Denver is very engaged in it's homeless problem and the more they do, the more homeless there are. Other cities bus them here. There are dozens of people out telling people what is available and giving treatment but due to the addictions and mental health problems, many simply don't use them and want nothing more than to be left alone. The city works hard to keep them off the main downtown streets but the problem is when they come out of the woodwork and do something unpredictable like attack tourists or accost someone on a trail.

[mugofbeer]

I can't remember where it is (maybe Salt Lake City, maybe not) that the city just provided housing for the homeless and it's proven both cheaper and far more successful. Basically, they said, instead of waiting for you to get your life back together to find housing, we're going to provide you housing to help you get your life back together. Turns out that it led to far less problems in a lot of areas that resulted in both a better solution and saved money. At least that's how I remember reading it.

I don't think it was SLC because they are known to bus homeless to Denver. I do think there is/are a west coast city that has recently opened a large complex of housing to homeless. I would like to read any articles of results.

[Pete]

As far as those programs in OKC, no, I am not familiar with them. What I am familiar with is that Denver is very engaged in it's homeless problem and the more they do, the more homeless there are. Other cities bus them here.

Even if this is true then more homeless are being cared for, which is a good thing.

And often it takes building a relationship with people over a period of time before they are open to help.


Your arguments are very much in the vein of "It's a hopeless situation and the more we do the worse it gets" and that is absolutely, fundamentally not true and is a dangerous and uninformed attitude to perpetuate.

[dankrutka]

What I am familiar with is that Denver is very engaged in it's homeless problem and the more they do, the more homeless there are. Other cities bus them here.

Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you're saying that some cities have policies and funding to gather homeless people and bus them to Denver? Can you provide some info and sources on this so I can learn more? Which cities? Whose job is it to gather homeless people and take them to a different city? Obviously, this all seems pretty problematic.

[ksearls]

This is the second report of a very aggressive/violent panhandler in that area and it sounds like the same guy. I hope you called the police, this guy needs to be dealt with. BTW, that will not stop me from visiting the area. Just be aware of your surroundings or maybe valet park next time.

[sooner88]

We have a lot of good resources for homeless in the city, below are some examples:

http://homelessalliance.org/
www.cityrescue.org/
www.positivetomorrows.org/

[mugofbeer]

Even if this is true then more homeless are being cared for, which is a good thing.

And often it takes building a relationship with people over a period of time before they are open to help.
Your arguments are very much in the vein of "It's a hopeless situation and the more we do the worse it gets" and that is absolutely, fundamentally not true and is a dangerous and uninformed attitude to perpetuate.

Pete, please take what I say as simply chatting. I'm not criticizing you at all and I admire your compassion, I really do. You've devoted years of your life to this so I understand your passion.

If the methods used by most organizations was working, there would be improvement in the homeless problem. Every day that passes shows it may work for a relative few individuals, but every day that passes the overall problem gets worse. Show me one place your methods are working and homeless numbers are decreasing. LA is the only major city that has shown a decrease in homelessness - likely because they have devoted, literally, well over a billion dollars to building homeless housing and voted hundreds of millions of tax money annually in years beyond. LA numbers decreased, but only after a major numbers spike the year before so the effectiveness, even of the billions devoted to the problem, are inconclusive.

I never said it was hopeless no matter what. Homelessness will be there no matter how many outreach programs you have until and unless you spend literally billions in each major city (like LA is doing), send an army of 10 thousand out to be with the people 1 on 1 until and unless there is some way to force those who are incapable of making rational decisions into treatment. You really think that a simple outreach program is going to convince all the drug addicted, alcohol addicted, schizophrenics who just want to be left alone to start living a normal lifestyle? If it worked, you would see homeless numbers dropping across the country and they simply aren't.

Too many homeless care only about another injection, hit, drink or pill because they are addicted or sick. I've not had your experience but I have an Uncle I grew up with who is now homeless somewhere there in OKC (been around him a lot in my life) and worked for years in Downtown Denver on the ground floor on a major corner and observed the homeless peed and pooped on our office window, had people come into our office trying to deposit rocks then start smashing things when we wouldn't give them cash change for their rocks, knifed each other in our office, come in screaming babble, trying to solicit customers through our window on a nearly daily basis. In Denver, there are a lot who are not addicted but are here for the marijuana business and to be able to use pot. There is success getting them off the streets because they are shown there are few new opportunities left in the pot business and are still of relatively sound mind, so they look for traditional work. The numbers of typical homeless, however, are still increasing.

My suggestion is an experiment allowed somewhere - instead of spending billions to just put homeless in apartments and hoping their addictions go away, spend less money but force people who are not capable of helping themselves into real treatment. Use some tough love and make it less acceptable to be on the streets. Give people a path but if they don't take it, force them into treatment. (yes, I know it is not allowed - still my suggestion to experiment).

[mugofbeer]

Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you're saying that some cities have policies and funding to gather homeless people and bus them to Denver? Can you provide some info and sources on this so I can learn more? Which cities? Whose job is it to gather homeless people and take them to a different city? Obviously, this all seems pretty problematic.

Go to Google and enter "busing of homeless to Denver." It opened my eyes because I read the paper pretty regularly here but it seems Denver busses people out to other cities, too. You will see articles outlining busing to Denver, too. The practice seems pretty common.

[Pete]

The over-arching issue as to why there is a huge and growing homeless problem is directly due to the lack of funding of mental health programs in Oklahoma and nationally. Virtually every chronically homeless person has serious mental and/or addiction problems.

Not to get political because I am old enough that I actually voted for him twice, but this started with the slashing of these programs by Ronald Reagan. It's also the reason we incarerate at a way higher percentage than almost any other country and why Oklahoma does so more than almost any state.

In the meantime, you can't just say the homeless population is growing and therefore the existing problem isn't being well addressed by loads of people and agencies. There are tons of successes but the entire U.S. is in the terrible position of having to treat symptoms (which is very, very important) rather than the causes.

[Rover]

I was an executive of a manufacturing company in Eastern Los Angeles a couple of years ago and we hired homeless persons to work in our plant. They were part of a program in Long Beach whereby they were housed, fed and trained by the city to do wage earning work. As part of the program they were tested for drugs and received other counseling. They were bussed to our factory every morning and back at night. Most were very good workers. We knew they would be on time, stay all day, and be clean of drugs/alcohol. By actually working with them to be employable, most were able to end the cycle of being on the street and through steady employment could then move from the shelters into their own apartments/homes.

People love to hate and look down on the poorest in our society, but many, many of them require help and then can help themselves. Incarceration and hopelessness breeds more and more despair, mental illness, alcoholism, violence........ Rinse and repeat.