Quail Springs Mall

[Colbafone]

ftfy.

Nah man I meant Penn Square. I'll take driving on Penn and Expressway any moment of my life over driving May or Penn and Memorial. When was the last time a major sports director for KFOR died on Penn and Expressway?

I rest my case.

[d-usa]

Why do I have to walk through stores that I don't care about and a mediocre food court just to get to the ticket booth?

For the same reason you walk through candy and magazines and DVDs to get to the checkout at Target, past the endcaps at Crest, and past the food samples at Sams Club.

Impulse buys.

[Rover]

Nah man I meant Penn Square. I'll take driving on Penn and Expressway any moment of my life over driving May or Penn and Memorial.

I rest my case.

Traffic around QSM definitely worse, especially on Penn. On rare occasions is the traffic on Penn and NW Ex around PSM as bad as it is everyday around QSM. And just wait til all the apartments and the fitness center open. Wow.

[jn1780]

For the same reason you walk through candy and magazines and DVDs to get to the checkout at Target, past the endcaps at Crest, and past the food samples at Sams Club.

Impulse buys.

I'm sure it was a good deal for AMC when they first agreement with the mall 20 years ago. It's a inconvience to movie customers now. An inconvience they will no longer tolerate once they have more options.

[jn1780]

Nah man I meant Penn Square. I'll take driving on Penn and Expressway any moment of my life over driving May or Penn and Memorial. When was the last time a major sports director for KFOR died on Penn and Expressway?

I rest my case.

Your argument may be true, but an idiot could make an illegal uturn on pretty much any street and kill a guy on a motorcycle. I 100 percent blame that to bad driving rather than traffic conditions. If anything if the road was congested at the time he probably wouldn't have attempted the illegal uturn.

[bluedogok]

Having worked with both Simon and GGP on complete mall remodel projects and individual stores I can attest that GGP is the more difficult one to work with. Even DIA is easier to deal with than GGP.

[Trip]

Simon owns PS, but they bought it in 2002. It was originally redeveloped by JMB/Federated (i.e. they added Foleys and the second story in the late 1980s). Point of clarification relative to comment that Simon knows how to make malls (which they do, just that they did not build PS or determine its layout).

[barrettd]

I work directly across the street from Penn Square Mall. I see it for several hours a day. 99% of the time and year, the parking lot is maybe 40% full. I drive on Penn and Expressway several times a day. If you have problems with the PSM parking lot and entrance ways, that's on you. Maybe just head to a CVS for your shopping needs? Probably a bit easier in and out for some.

Cool story.

[Urbanized]

I'm sure it was a good deal for AMC when they first agreement with the mall 20 years ago. It's a inconvience to movie customers now. An inconvience they will no longer tolerate once they have more options.

Probably a better deal for the mall itself. It was already beginning to show signs of market deterioration when the theater was announced. The opening of the theater in (I think) 1998 was an immediate shot in the arm and definitely breathed new life into the mall.

Without a doubt making people walk through the mall to get to the theater was intended to make people interact with the stores or at least see them. Honestly brilliant and probably added 20 good years to the mall’s life. I’m certain the mall’s ownership made AMC a sweet deal with the stipulation that the entrance was deep inside.

While I agree that the theater will probably begin to struggle as new modern and more easily-accessed theaters continue to come online, adding an outdoor entrance is a risky idea. It’s possible that in trying to save the theater you could kill the mall.

[scottk]

Maybe not through GCP, but if the mall had a new developer, could they accomplish something like Pinnacle Hills in Northwest Arkansas, or The Landing in Branson? Both are open air centers that have pretty typical "mall" retail. Basically, reverse what they did to Penn Square Mall. Quail Springs would demolish the enclosed mall and then add new retail with updated square footage to better meet retailer needs? Anchor stores would remain.

Of course, I don't know if there is a consumer demand for general retail anymore? Other than dining and a few specialty shops, what draws people to shopping centers/malls anymore?

[d-usa]

There is so much unused real eatate around the mall just waiting for general retail.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Probably a better deal for the mall itself. It was already beginning to show signs of market deterioration when the theater was announced. The opening of the theater in (I think) 1998 was an immediate shot in the arm and definitely breathed new life into the mall.

Without a doubt making people walk through the mall to get to the theater was intended to make people interact with the stores or at least see them. Honestly brilliant and probably added 20 good years to the mall’s life. I’m certain the mall’s ownership made AMC a sweet deal with the stipulation that the entrance was deep inside.

While I agree that the theater will probably begin to struggle as new modern and more easily-accessed theaters continue to come online, adding an outdoor entrance is a risky idea. It’s possible that in trying to save the theater you could kill the mall.

This is really strange. You were off by a decade as Penn Square General Cinema showed its first movie on May 19th, 1988. Yep, thirty years ago today.

https://mall-hall-of-fame.blogspot.c...northwest.html

[Urbanized]

This is really strange. You were off by a decade as Penn Square General Cinema showed its first movie on May 19th, 1988. Yep, thirty years ago today.

https://mall-hall-of-fame.blogspot.c...northwest.html

Actually you were off...by an entire MALL. I was responding to jn1780's post about Quail Springs.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Actually you were off...by an entire MALL. I was responding to jn1780's post about Quail Springs.

Oh, I'm sorry. Honest mistake. I got confused with some back and forth between the two malls.
A serendipitous discovery came out of the misunderstanding, it's strange that Penn Square's General Cinema screened their first movie exactly thirty years ago today.

[Urbanized]

Yeah, that WAS a cool find.

[yukong]

Gordon's Jeweler's has now announced they are leaving QSM.

[bchris02]

I really think the only hope for the mall at this point is a complete renovation and rebranding, something that isn't like to happen. As is, I give it until 2020 before people are talking about demolition and redevelopment.

[onthestrip]

Reading some tweets between our mayor and Lackmeyer this morning tells us that Von Maur hasnt exactly set it on fire. They havent even done enough in sales to receive their incentive, according to Mayor Holt.

[jn1780]

I really think the only hope for the mall at this point is a complete renovation and rebranding, something that isn't like to happen. As is, I give it until 2020 before people are talking about demolition and redevelopment.

There's only so much you can do with a two level indoor mall. I don't think two levels really work well. The mall needs to feel like a mini town square.

[progressiveboy]

If QSM is going to survive in this era of "internet shopping" it is basically going to have to reinvent or repurpose the mall. It should attract destination retailers or attractions that are not affected by the "Internet". Such examples would be "Sea Life Aquarium" or "Crayola Experience" which both are highly interactive. Since Von Maur is not doing well, I wonder if Nordstrom would be supported in OKC? Perhaps an ice skating ring similar to the Dallas Galleria. It remains to be seen, however, the marketing mix at QSM is quite dismal and not inviting. It needs an overhaul for it's long term survival.

[Mastermind]

@progressiveboy As much as I would love to see a Nordstrom in OKC, it probably won't happen anytime soon, because the company isn't doing too well. OKC would be a big risk.

But I would love to see an ice rink at QSM! They need to drop the whole '80s-'90s mall concept and make the space more inviting. Revamp the food court, do pop-up stores, make AMC much more accessible, etc.

[jbkrems]

@progressiveboy - How do you know Von Maur isn't doing well ?

[scottk]

I'll chime in from an outsiders perspective. Von Maur is nice and well kept. Unfortunately, much like when Sears when it occupied that space, "there is always a parking space at Von Maur", we can usually park right next to the door at Von Maur Quail Springs on the east side. The store is typically a ghost town when going through it. Nice Items, nice displays, just sparse in shoppers. We have browsed through many of their items, most are not in our price range for what we expect to spend on clothing or accessories. We live just north of Quail Springs, so I imagine we fit into the core demographic/income of who Quail Springs tries to target. As others have said, Von Maur probably would have been a better fit at Penn Square, but at the time with Sears closing at Quail, and OKC booming in the early 2010's thanks to OKC Thunder and the energy sector, Von Maur saw an opportunity.

What is strange to me, the Von Maur in Wichita at Towne East Square is usually busy and has been there for almost 20 years now, despite Wichita being a much smaller market, and probably similar income brackets. On a related note, Woodland Hills Malls anchors in Tulsa seem to have much more foot traffic than Quail Springs or even Penn Square, despite similar demographics too.

OKC Malls seem to flip with Tulsa Malls. Where Woodland Hills and Quail Springs have similar footprints and 1980's mall layout, located next to highway access and have a suburban feel, Penn Square and Promenade were both converted shopping centers that turned into oddly configured malls with their current footprint and surrounded by established neighborhoods.

Yet, Quail is similar to Promenade with store selection and anchors closing (Macy's, Sears, Mervyn's) while Penn Square and Woodland Hills are the middle-upper style malls with tenant selection.

[jonny d]

I'll chime in from an outsiders perspective. Von Maur is nice and well kept. Unfortunately, much like when Sears when it occupied that space, "there is always a parking space at Von Maur", we can usually park right next to the door at Von Maur Quail Springs on the east side. The store is typically a ghost town when going through it. Nice Items, nice displays, just sparse in shoppers. We have browsed through many of their items, most are not in our price range for what we expect to spend on clothing or accessories. We live just north of Quail Springs, so I imagine we fit into the core demographic/income of who Quail Springs tries to target. As others have said, Von Maur probably would have been a better fit at Penn Square, but at the time with Sears closing at Quail, and OKC booming in the early 2010's thanks to OKC Thunder and the energy sector, Von Maur saw an opportunity.

What is strange to me, the Von Maur in Wichita at Towne East Square is usually busy and has been there for almost 20 years now, despite Wichita being a much smaller market, and probably similar income brackets. On a related note, Woodland Hills Malls anchors in Tulsa seem to have much more foot traffic than Quail Springs or even Penn Square, despite similar demographics too.

OKC Malls seem to flip with Tulsa Malls. Where Woodland Hills and Quail Springs have similar footprints and 1980's mall layout, located next to highway access and have a suburban feel, Penn Square and Promenade were both converted shopping centers that turned into oddly configured malls with their current footprint and surrounded by established neighborhoods.

Yet, Quail is similar to Promenade with store selection and anchors closing (Macy's, Sears, Mervyn's) while Penn Square and Woodland Hills are the middle-upper style malls with tenant selection.

I disagree about Penn Square. It is ALWAYS busy when I go. The Macys is not, yes. It sucks. But the men's Dillards may be one of the most upscale in the chain (they sell Creed fragrances, for crying out loud). No other Dillards does, I believe. The Men's Dillards at Penn is awesome! Stinks that the Macys can't keep up. The only problem with Penn is that it has no room to grow, really. Quail I will agree with you on. It is falling very quickly, and it is sad to watch happen.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I disagree about Penn Square. It is ALWAYS busy when I go. The Macys is not, yes. It sucks. But the men's Dillards may be one of the most upscale in the chain (they sell Creed fragrances, for crying out loud). No other Dillards does, I believe. The Men's Dillards at Penn is awesome! Stinks that the Macys can't keep up. The only problem with Penn is that it has no room to grow, really. Quail I will agree with you on. It is falling very quickly, and it is sad to watch happen.

I agree with you 100% about Penn Square and Dillard's. I often tell people that the Dillard's menswear department is probably the best all around men's store in town.