Criterion Concert Hall

[Urbanized]

Those bands are too mainstream for the people on here (the Father John Misty types). I have nothing whatsoever against those types of bands (indie-ish). Just not my cup of tea. If I were not travelling for work, I would be front row for Mastadon!

I've seen Mastodon twice and Primus once, and I will be at the show tonight.

I also like Father John Misty (just bought tickets to that one off the AMEX presale). Good music is good music.

[jn1780]

So build it and they will come isn't always true.

In this version, you need to actually have money left over to pay the baseball players to play on your field

[BridgeBurner]

See all you "glass half full" types tonight at the Criteron for Primus/Mastodon (i.e., another great show not making it up to Tulsa).

Dang... Wish I had heard about this sooner!

[BDP]

I was astounded recently when I went and broke this down for myself, knowing who has played where in the past few years. I need to find the time to cut and paste the comparisons, but it is inarguable once you see it side by side. I didn’t believe it myself until I did the comparison.

I think it's sort of just lingering history. And now with OKC's concert scene being multiple venues, straight comparing the markets by holding up one venue against Cain's doesn't even make sense. I think Cain's does a great job of being consistently booked, but they're also not all big names or sell out draws. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not like every show is huge.

And as for the Criterion, the David Byrne show proved that it can both sound good and be well run. That was one of the best shows I've even seen, if for no other reason than I had never and probably will never see another show like it. It's too bad they just can't seem to get it together. I figured they could at least place all the Red Dirt bands that used to play at Wormy Dog there.

The only place where Tulsa is currently emphatically beating our scene is in arena shows, and it’s not even close there. For that I blame the Thunder’s vise-like arena control.

And even then, I don't think I see much on its schedule of bands that haven't or aren't playing here. Maybe a couple, but same can be said for CHK. I've always wondered if the frequency difference is due in part by them being managed by the same company. SMG has a permanent tenant in OKC, but they HAVE to book shows at BOK to make it viable. Even if CHK didn't book a single show, the arena would still be generating revenue 42+ nights a year. If I were them, I'd push shows to the Tulsa asset whenever I could, too, especially since they're going to have a significant draw from OKC anyway.

[kukblue1]

Nobody has said Criterion is doing a good job, a few bright spots such as David Byrne and The XX notwithstanding. But as a whole the NON-ARENA scene in OKC is currently at least the equal of TulsaÂ’s, this is a fact. Nearly every act worth caring about which has played CainÂ’s or Brady in the past couple of years has now played or is on the books at one of OKCÂ’s venues (example: the just-announced Father John Misty at Jones Assembly).

I was astounded recently when I went and broke this down for myself, knowing who has played where in the past few years. I need to find the time to cut and paste the comparisons, but it is inarguable once you see it side by side. I didnÂ’t believe it myself until I did the comparison.

The only place where Tulsa is currently emphatically beating our scene is in arena shows, and itÂ’s not even close there. For that I blame the ThunderÂ’s vise-like arena control.

Yes and no on the arena shows. They do tend to hit Tulsa first but then they always seem to make it to OKC at some point in the tour. Just seems like it's always a year later though. You are right though Tulsa just gets more cause of the Thunder effect. Yes they just had U2 but we had Lady Gaga. We had Beyonce a few years ago Tulsa didn't. JT and Pink are both coming. All country acts that I can think of hit both cities. Overall though Tulsa probably gets 3-4 big acts a year that okc doesn't get.

What I would like to see improved is the outdoor concerts at the zoo. There are some ok acts this year but over all I think we could do better.

[Jersey Boss]

Speaking of the arena angle and the Thunder. Do the Mavericks have a similar arrangement as it seems even with an NHL team occupying the same arena as the NBA team, Dallas has a better arena concert scene. Do the Thunder have an unusual sweetheart deal that is unusual for an NBA team to have? As far as the smaller acts go, when was the last time Buddy Guy played OKC or Emily Lou Harris? There definitely seems to be a disconnect with the smaller classic acts other than casino venues.

[BDP]

Speaking of the arena angle and the Thunder. Do the Mavericks have a similar arrangement as it seems even with an NHL team occupying the same arena as the NBA team, Dallas has a better arena concert scene. Do the Thunder have an unusual sweetheart deal that is unusual for an NBA team to have?

I'm not aware of anything in the Thunder deal that would prevent more concerts from being booked there. It's certainly not a logistical problem. Best example is the Staples Center. It has 2 NBA teams, an NHL team, and a WNBA team. It also has concerts all the time, as well many high profile events. Of course, Dallas and LA are much different markets than OKC and any tour would adjust to the permanent tenants just to play the market.

[Rover]

Isn’t it more of an available dates thing? Thunder sucks up a lot of dates. I don’t think they prohibit it being used for something else when they aren’t here.

[BDP]

Isn’t it more of an available dates thing? Thunder sucks up a lot of dates. I don’t think they prohibit it being used for something else when they aren’t here.

Maybe, but most arenas work around it with no problem. My guess is still that it's influenced by the fact that there is an arena 90 min away that doesn't have a major tenant and is managed by the same company. So, even when dates aren't an issue, they still need to book the BOK with something so it has some revenue. There could even be a minimum that they're held to there that doesn't apply here because CHK has 42+ dates in the bag every year. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if the two arenas were managed by competing entities rather than the same one. Either way, I don't see that big of a discrepancy, but I'm also not too into what's on the arena circuit these days, especially at the price of tickets for most arena shows. I'd actually pay more to see shows at Jones, Tower, or Criterion than for an arena show (don't tell them that, though).

[Pete]

The Thunder only play 41 home games a season, plus a small amount of playoff games.

Modern arenas are very easy to reconfigure; I know the Staples Center often has hockey and basketball on the same day! Or a game during the day and a concert at night.

There seems to be a big conflict with the company managing the arena because why wouldn't they just book in Tulsa where they never have to work around any sporting events?

It's ridiculous how few arena shows OKC gets in comparison, especially when you consider OKC is about 50% larger.

Something is at work here and it's not market driven.

[BDP]

The Thunder only play 41 home games a season, plus a small amount of playoff.

Don’t forget that very lucrative preseason game.

[OkieHornet]

Go figure... Levelland / Criterion somehow managed to screw up the Mastodon / Primus show tonight... Saw on the Facebook event page that the concert was supposed to start at 8 with an opener (All Them Witches), but they opened doors early and started the concert at 7 for whatever reason. So Mastodon started before 8 with people still waiting in line. Will be curious to hear from people who were actually there. Criterion did respond to posts that they were going with what was handed to them, but you think a promoter would have better knowledge of set times more than just an hour before the show starts?

[kukblue1]

I'm sure big name acts will work out their schedules to get into Dallas, LA, Chicago. I'm sure booking OKC isn't a big priority. It's probably way more of an after thought once Dallas, Denver, and all the other big cities are book. Also since Tulsa and OKC are so close I wonder if there is issues with Ticket sales. Meaning could they sell out a big time act in Tulsa and then in a month do it again in OKC. I think that is why OKC Tulsa shows are at least 6 months apart. Much more of a demand for tickets if they just go to one city. Since Tulsa doesn't have any other events to work around I'm sure it's much easier for them to get booked on their way to and from Dallas or St.Louis . Have you ever seen an arena act book for both OKC and Tulsa at the same time on the same leg of the tour?

[Pete]

^

It still begs the question: Why does Tulsa get many more arena shows if the act is only going to book it or OKC?

I strongly suspect the Thunder have everything to do with this.

And I will also point out that Chesapeake Arena is owned by the City of OKC and the people operating it have a responsibility to the people who funded it.


It's not just a simple matter of driving up the turnpike... This booking bias results in OKC loosing millions of revenue, not only from the arena but the surrounding businesses, hotels, etc.

Many, many more OKC area people would go if the performance was downtown rather than Tulsa and at the same the city would massively benefit from Tulsans coming down the turnpike.

[Jersey Boss]

Isn’t it more of an available dates thing? Thunder sucks up a lot of dates. I don’t think they prohibit it being used for something else when they aren’t here.

The Tulsa Oilers of the ECHL play a 36 game home schedule at the BOK. Seems to be a wash there.

[jonny d]

^

It still begs the question: Why does Tulsa get many more arena shows if the act is only going to book it or OKC?

I strongly suspect the Thunder have everything to do with this.

And I will also point out that Chesapeake Arena is owned by the City of OKC and the people operating it have a responsibility to the people who funded it.


It's not just a simple matter of driving up the turnpike... This booking bias results in OKC loosing millions of revenue, not only from the arena but the surrounding businesses, hotels, etc.

Many, many more OKC area people would go if the performance was downtown rather than Tulsa and at the same the city would massively benefit from Tulsans coming down the turnpike.

You keep bringing up the Thunder. What would they have to do with this? Just being curious. They have no ownership in the arena. They are there around 45 to 50 days a year. It isn't them, in my opinion.

[d-usa]

Maybe he’s just talking about a passive effect from them having a set number of guaranteed events each year, rather than any active actions to prevent more bookings.

[Pete]

You keep bringing up the Thunder. What would they have to do with this? Just being curious. They have no ownership in the arena. They are there around 45 to 50 days a year. It isn't them, in my opinion.

Because the Thunder has tons of influence and are also owned by people with massive influence in this town.

And because I've heard rumors of them discouraging concerts.

[OkieHornet]

Because the Thunder has tons of influence and are also owned by people with massive influence in this town.

And because I've heard rumors of them discouraging concerts.

But why would they discourage concerts? That just doesn't make sense - I mean, they have dirty Monster Jam and Bull Riding events in the arena every year. What makes a concert worse than those events?

[Pete]

I hope to find out more and write about this rather than engaging in further speculation.

But the bottom line is OKC -- a substantially bigger market -- gets far less events in its arena than does Tulsa, and they two venues use the same management company.

[TheTravellers]

Go figure... Levelland / Criterion somehow managed to screw up the Mastodon / Primus show tonight... Saw on the Facebook event page that the concert was supposed to start at 8 with an opener (All Them Witches), but they opened doors early and started the concert at 7 for whatever reason. So Mastodon started before 8 with people still waiting in line. Will be curious to hear from people who were actually there. Criterion did respond to posts that they were going with what was handed to them, but you think a promoter would have better knowledge of set times more than just an hour before the show starts?

Wow, that is absolutely inexcusable, completely and totally incompetent! Shows should *never, ever, ever* start early, I don't believe I've ever seen a show start early (with or without notice) in the 41 years I've been going to shows (at all levels, from extremely small to huge arenas). That's just very odd, stupid, irresponsible, and shows how crappy Levelland is. Wasn't there, but yeah, it'd be good to hear from someone that was there, I know Urbanized and a few others were going. Wonder what kind of answer you'd get if you asked Mastodon and Primus themselves (via FB, email, Twitter, whatever) what happened?

[Urbanized]

I went to the show last night. Got an e-mail or FB notice from Criterion that they were starting Mastodon at 7:50 instead of 8, which I didn't even see until after the show. Had a tough time getting my tab at the place we had beers before, so we were already getting in line shortly after 8 (Mastodon already playing). I'm not that cranky about it, even though I was mostly there to see Mastodon, because I'd just seen them a few months ago at Diamond and was feeling pretty laid back overall. But after I realized that I missed All Them Witches (a really great hard blues/stoner rock band from Nashville) entirely I was bummed. The ticket said show started at 8. So they had already played, stage had been reset and Mastodon already on before the published time on the ticket.

As far as the show was concerned, Mastodon was absolutely incredible, as they've been every time I've seen them. Just an absolutely scorching set. Like I said, I was there for them mostly. But Primus was also really, really excellent. And LOUD.

[gopokes88]

I hope to find out more and write about this rather than engaging in further speculation.

But the bottom line is OKC -- a substantially bigger market -- gets far less events in its arena than does Tulsa, and they two venues use the same management company.

It's not the Thunder, it's the NBA. The # of NBA "blackout dates" are enormous. Days the NBA says these are reserved for the Thunder. The Thunder are the primary tenant and gets preferential treatment.

Now other arenas have larger staffs to turn the arena quicker and therefore host more events, but as far I know OKC doesn't really have much interest in that. The more staff #'s an arena has the less blackout dates from the NBA. If the NBA knows you can turn the arena in 12 hours and have the staff to consistently do it, they may let you have a concert the day before a game. That's not the case in OKC. Getting a hockey team would actually allow for more events because there would be a staff dedicated for turns.

That's at least how I've always understood it from some friends that work at the arena.

[Pete]

I want to look into this and get answers.

If it was just the NBA, it would still not explain why the summer has so few shows and events.

[jn1780]

Does it really take that much work to pick up an NBA basketball court? Arena shows bring in their own crew so arena management just need to clear the floor and hire ushers, food workers, cleaning crews. How many part time unskilled labors do they need? If that's the reason, arena management are being cheapskates at the cities expense. Or just being ok with how things are now and want to make no effort to expend their operations to make more money.