Stadium District (formerly Producers Coop)

[Pete]

[hoya]

Any word on what the plan for all this is? I find it hard to believe that they'd move so quickly on clearing the site if they didn't already know what they wanted to do.

[Pete]

Here is what I've heard as a very rough, preliminary plan:

4 story parking garage, two 10 story office buildings, two 4 story residential buildings + retail, another 200,000 SF of retail along I-40 and a restaurant area with approximately 7 builidngs.

In the beginning they seemed to be working closely with the Lumberyard (Mazaheri) owners but not sure if that is still in the cards.

[jonny d]

Here is what I've heard as a very rough, preliminary plan:

4 story parking garage, two 10 story office buildings, two 4 story residential buildings + retail, another 200,000 SF of retail along I-40 and a restaurant area with approximately 7 builidngs.

In the beginning they seemed to be working closely with the Lumberyard (Mazaheri) owners but not sure if that is still in the cards.

What kind of retail are we talking? Big box or lifestyle center?

Other than that, this development sounds promising!

[Pete]

All preliminary but retail -- and everything else -- will depend on who they can get.

[HangryHippo]

Here is what I've heard as a very rough, preliminary plan:

4 story parking garage, two 10 story office buildings, two 4 story residential buildings + retail, another 200,000 SF of retail along I-40 and a restaurant area with approximately 7 builidngs.

In the beginning they seemed to be working closely with the Lumberyard (Mazaheri) owners but not sure if that is still in the cards.

Understanding that you said it's all very preliminary, it would be nice if we could get at least one residential option in this area that is taller than 4 stories.

[Pete]

It seems if you go much taller you can no longer use wood and a steel structure adds pretty significantly to the cost, which is why you see all these new apartment complexes max out at 4-5 levels.

[stlokc]

This development scares me.

Looking at that picture - that's a lot of frigging land. That's like the size of the whole CBD or all of Bricktown. I worry that what we are going to see is low density. The "restaurant area with 7 buildings" makes me think of a highway intersection with national chains surrounding a parking lot. "200,000 SF of retail along I-40" is ridiculous and the only way you are going to get that is by convincing the likes of Home Depot and Wal-Mart to build there, which is absolutely the last thing we want in an urban area. I don't want to see the Kilpatrick Turnpike or the west side of Norman duplicated downtown. I guess the 10-story office buildings and 4-story residential could be fine, if it's concentrated along the boulevard and not spread out.

We have been given an opportunity that is very rare for an urban area. But similar to what others have said in other contexts - it's yet one more thing competing for attention. I almost find myself wishing this hadn't happened and we could focus on completing and densifying the areas that are growing the right way like Midtown. We also have all that land in Core to Shore to fill.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood this morning.

[Pete]

It's about 38 acres.

See the graphic below for the area superimposed elsewhere in the core.

[stlokc]

Interesting. Thanks for the graphic representation.

So it doesn't include that land along the boulevard? That's really unfortunate, as that is the most highly valuable piece of the whole parcel and the most obvious area for dense development.

[Pete]

Interesting. Thanks for the graphic representation.

So it doesn't include that land along the boulevard? That's really unfortunate, as that is the most highly valuable piece of the whole parcel and the most obvious area for dense development.

That is the old Lumberyard owned by Mazaheri Properties.

There have been some plans that show that property being somewhat incorporated / coordinated with retail along the OKC Boulevard.

[stjohn]

This development scares me.

Looking at that picture - that's a lot of frigging land. That's like the size of the whole CBD or all of Bricktown. I worry that what we are going to see is low density. The "restaurant area with 7 buildings" makes me think of a highway intersection with national chains surrounding a parking lot. "200,000 SF of retail along I-40" is ridiculous and the only way you are going to get that is by convincing the likes of Home Depot and Wal-Mart to build there, which is absolutely the last thing we want in an urban area. I don't want to see the Kilpatrick Turnpike or the west side of Norman duplicated downtown. I guess the 10-story office buildings and 4-story residential could be fine, if it's concentrated along the boulevard and not spread out.

We have been given an opportunity that is very rare for an urban area. But similar to what others have said in other contexts - it's yet one more thing competing for attention. I almost find myself wishing this hadn't happened and we could focus on completing and densifying the areas that are growing the right way like Midtown. We also have all that land in Core to Shore to fill.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood this morning.

Agree completely. What other city has this much open, developable space this close to the core, and the resources to develop it? Core to Shore is enough land to re-make what downtown OKC means.

All of which is great IF you trust OKC's development approval process to not go Chase Bank/Parking Garage District/Lower Bricktown.

[bchris02]

This development scares me.

Looking at that picture - that's a lot of frigging land. That's like the size of the whole CBD or all of Bricktown. I worry that what we are going to see is low density. The "restaurant area with 7 buildings" makes me think of a highway intersection with national chains surrounding a parking lot. "200,000 SF of retail along I-40" is ridiculous and the only way you are going to get that is by convincing the likes of Home Depot and Wal-Mart to build there, which is absolutely the last thing we want in an urban area. I don't want to see the Kilpatrick Turnpike or the west side of Norman duplicated downtown. I guess the 10-story office buildings and 4-story residential could be fine, if it's concentrated along the boulevard and not spread out.

We have been given an opportunity that is very rare for an urban area. But similar to what others have said in other contexts - it's yet one more thing competing for attention. I almost find myself wishing this hadn't happened and we could focus on completing and densifying the areas that are growing the right way like Midtown. We also have all that land in Core to Shore to fill.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood this morning.

I agree with this completely. I am worried about this turning into a suburban big box development, perhaps with a Wal-Mart Supercenter. Downtown OKC needs a grocery store but building a cookie-cutter big box surrounded by surface parking is not the way to do it. Hopefully we will all be surprised but I am not getting my hopes up. OKC has a history of accepting substandard development because "at least its better than nothing" eg. Lower Bricktown.

[shawnw]

I do not want a suburban big box area near downtown either, but if there has to be one somewhere, this would be the place, as there is no additional room left to sprawl.

[Chicken In The Rough]

I do not want a suburban big box area near downtown either, but if there has to be one somewhere, this would be the place, as there is no additional room left to sprawl.

I had hoped we had seen the end of suburban big box centers with sprawling parking lots. It's time move on to improved density, especially in the core. I no longer live in OKC, but if I did, I would help with an initiative to prevent another Belle Isle.

[Teo9969]

Not at all trying to make a case for building something like a Wal-Mart downtown, but to be sure, Belle Isle could EASILY be retrofitted to exactly what it should have been all along. There are well over 10 acres of flat concrete and one Arts District garage could replace almost the entirety of the Wal-Mart parking lot. You could increase the size to 1000 vehicles, and situate it perfectly in that gap between Wal-Mart and the strip center to the west. Then every last bit of parking could be redeveloped into something more useful. You could do all that while still providing relatively little disruption to Wal-Mart which would be the major deterrent from trying in the 1st place.

The bigger culprits to destruction of urban environment are the strip centers like the one across the street with the Mattress Firm, Subway, Party Galaxy etc. The parking is not enough to be able to redevelop, and the buildings are crap and generally do little to entice people into the area. WalMart probably brings, what, 80% of the traffic to that shopping area? And it's not a small quantity of traffic either. I think criticism of the Wal-Marts and Targets is certainly warranted, but honestly, the biggest culprits are the fast food chains and the make a quick buck retail developers who are really only interested in (relatively) immediate gratification.

[mugofbeer]

Belle Isle was built under unfortunate circumstances all the way around. The city allowed one of the few lakes and a historical recreation park to be filled in for it to be built. Furthermore, had ODOT known this was to happen, they have said I44 would have been built differently. I bet if started today, Belle Isle would be totally different and might be a much more densely developed urban, mixed-use urban center. In fact, it wouldn't suprise me if 5-10 years from now the owners of Belle Isle don't start plans to slowly convert the area to a more mixed use center. Amazon's going to start putting some of these stores out of business.

[u50254082]

I hope it does become a big box center. I know a lot of people here want to see it become something more stylish or trendy but a WM in that spot would do incredibly well business wise and would bring in a solid stream of sales tax for decades interrupted. The more trendy or "taste of the month" places come and go but people will always need to buy SOMETHING from a place like WM.

[Pryor Tiger]

Skwillz, I would love to have a closer Walmart to Downtown OKC as well but this to me is not the place. We finally have a shot at changing the I-40 drive view from the Producers Coop to something truly special. In fact all of South Downtown OKC has a chance to nearly double the scope of Downtown, and propel our city image nationally. All of this will hopefully motivate more to move to OKC or to move to Downtown OKC.

Any sort of big box development I hope goes into West Downtown past Western or on Broadway North of 13th Street.

[jonny d]

Not one single, solitary, individual person said that a big box center was going here, and yet, we have 30 posts about it as if it is set in stone...my gosh, people!

[kevin lee]

He told yall lol!!

[king183]

Not one single, solitary, individual person said that a big box center was going here, and yet, we have 30 posts about it as if it is set in stone...my gosh, people!

True, but to be fair, if you look at the type of work this investment group does, they specialize in big box, suburban, beige, faux-high end, cheap developments with huge surface lots. I'm not sure they have the expertise or commitment to do a truly urban development. So I'll be very skeptical until I see their plans and their plans are actually built, but I'm fully prepared for Lower Bricktown Part Deux.

[LocoAko]

True, but to be fair, if you look at the type of work this investment group does, they specialize in big box, suburban, beige, faux-high end, cheap developments with huge surface lots. I'm not sure they have the expertise or commitment to do a truly urban development. So I'll be very skeptical until I see their plans and their plans are actually built, but I'm fully prepared for Lower Bricktown Part Deux.

Yep. If you look at their website, almost all their projects have been those types of developments. And I can't think of anything worse that would cement every negative perception of Oklahoma City than having a Walmart supercenter in the heart of our downtown at the junction of two major interstates. Please no.

[bchris02]

I hope it does become a big box center. I know a lot of people here want to see it become something more stylish or trendy but a WM in that spot would do incredibly well business wise and would bring in a solid stream of sales tax for decades interrupted. The more trendy or "taste of the month" places come and go but people will always need to buy SOMETHING from a place like WM.

WM can come to downtown but it should look like this.



Or at LEAST this.



As LocoAko says, having a cookie cutter Wal-Mart strip center at this location would cement every negative perception most outsiders have of OKC. Unfortunately I'll be surprised if that isn't exactly what happens.

[5alive]

I love the top picture...bring it on!