Quail Springs Mall

[Plutonic Panda]

And here Edmond had a prominent mall developer looking to actually build a mixed use development, shopping with apartment housing, and Edmond residents emphatically said no. Guess they are fine with continuing to send a lot of their retail dollars to OKC.

That project is still happening.

[KayneMo]

That project is still happening.

Where is this?!

[Plutonic Panda]

Where is this?!

I’m guessing ontheatrip was referring to Shoppes at Spring Creek which will be at 15th St. and Bryant. It starts construction by spring.

[onthestrip]

I’m guessing ontheatrip was referring to Shoppes at Spring Creek which will be at 15th St. and Bryant. It starts construction by spring.

Dont think so. Nothing new has been submitted or approved by the city.

[Plutonic Panda]

Dont think so. Nothing new has been submitted or approved by the city.

It is happening. They submitted to the city again in November and final plans will be submitted in February. I’ll post them once I see it. They are now doing this in phases with some pad sites and the movie theatre being built first.

[Zorba]

The Williams Center in Tulsa was built as an enclosed mall with attached retail and commercial, plus a nice ice skating rink. It ended up going belly up and turned into office space.

I think the real issue with may Malls is just there is a way over abundance of retail space in this country so it hard to keep any one development full and nice. All the "Mills" malls started off in bad shape because they built in marginal areas, that already had plenty of retail, and then they added millions of square feet and could never stay full. The same thing will happen as developers rush to build new style retail, and in 15 years they will be collapsing. The other big issue is developers and retail companies sell bonds to build, most of those bond will never actually be paid off (refinanced or chapter 11), and they never invest (or have the money to invest) in keeping the stores up to date and maintained.

[jerrywall]

And here Edmond had a prominent mall developer looking to actually build a mixed use development, shopping with apartment housing, and Edmond residents emphatically said no. Guess they are fine with continuing to send a lot of their retail dollars to OKC.

I'm not sure I'd describe 6000 voters as emphatic. I think just the majority, as normal, wasn't motivated to vote.

[onthestrip]

I'm not sure I'd describe 6000 voters as emphatic. I think just the majority, as normal, wasn't motivated to vote.

True. I still think if you polled every Edmond resident it would easily be a yes. But nevertheless, 2/3rds of voters said no.

[jerrywall]

True. I still think if you polled every Edmond resident it would easily be a yes. But nevertheless, 2/3rds of voters said no.

If only we had an organization, may some sort of economic commerce org in Edmond (you could even place it by UCO) who could have put in as much effort in getting out the vote as the no people did...

[Soonerman]

Grapevine Mills is an outlet mall**. Hulen, Ridgemar and Valley View are ghetto malls. Stonebriar is the 4th largest mall in TX and in the fastest growing city in USA. Parks & the Galleria still doing fine and so is Willow Bend.
DFW has 3 major outlets now though at Texas Motor Speedway, Allen, and Grand Prairie plus all of what Dallas has to offer with Mockingbird Station, West Village, Highland Village.

Northeast Mall in Hurst is doing really well.

[yukong]

Four more stores in Quail Springs Mall are closing by months end.... Forever 21, Pandora, Icing and Crazy 8. That will leave over 20 store spaces vacant and 2 food court slots vacant. This mall may die sooner than I thought. Forever 21 claims they are closing because traffic is way down in the mall and management is doing nothing to try and salvage it. More stores may be on their way out soon also.

[Plutonic Panda]

I was in the mall recently and it seemed lively enough. It wasn't packed. Whatever happens to this mall is because the owners and management aren't doing anything to make it better. I see someone coming in and buying it either tearing it down or redoing it completely. The mall is completely cut off from the north and they should go with more structured parking adding an open air lifestyle component nearby. Would hate to see Von Maur leave after they invested a lot in their current place.

[bchris02]

I've said this before. GGP doesn't realize that it isn't 1998 anymore. They don't realize that consumer tastes have changed as have what people expect from shopping malls. Quail Springs Mall would be doing great as is if it were the late '90s. It isn't. There's no reason QSM should be declining given the demographics in the immediate area. The area doesn't have the issues that Crossroads had. This is entirely the fault of an out-of-touch management company. OKC is a large enough town that it should be able to support more than one mall, especially given that Penn Square Mall is actually a pretty small mall. Hopefully they eventually sell and somebody else takes it over before it becomes a blight.

[barrettd]

Maybe they're counting on the fitness place to drive more traffic there? I much prefer QSM to Penn Square, so I hope they get things turned around out there. The last few times I was there, it was pretty sad. I don't know what the answer is, or what would make me go there more often. Renovating the movie theatres to be more like Penn (recliners, reserved seating, etc) might help. The whole mall just seems tired.

[Rover]

I've said this before. GGP doesn't realize that it isn't 1998 anymore. They don't realize that consumer tastes have changed as have what people expect from shopping malls. Quail Springs Mall would be doing great as is if it were the late '90s. It isn't. There's no reason QSM should be declining given the demographics in the immediate area. The area doesn't have the issues that Crossroads had. This is entirely the fault of an out-of-touch management company. OKC is a large enough town that it should be able to support more than one mall, especially given that Penn Square Mall is actually a pretty small mall. Hopefully they eventually sell and somebody else takes it over before it becomes a blight.

Nationally, mall owners generally know that malls are out of favor and are investing very little to prop them up. They are getting as much cash out of them as they can and, as one developer told me, are using “bubble gum and duct tape” to keep them going. This will accelerate their decline.
There are few buyers for malls these days, so don’t expect a white knight to race in and invest a bunch of money in QSM

[jn1780]

I will make this prediction right now, AMC is the ticking time bomb that will finally KO Quail Springs. Once the Edmond theater opens up, hopefully Warren north, and the two dine-in theaters, AMC will see a big decline. They probably also need to do more than just comfy seats. They need a direct entrance for starters. The new mall entrance helps, but that parking lot is going to be packed.

[yukong]

I have been told that one of the national chain stores recently asked the mall management if they could move to one of the larger, open spaces, so they could expand their inventory and offerings. They were offering to sign a lease of 3-5 years. All they asked in return was a break on the rent for the first 3 years then back up to market rate and the mall said "No." As has been said...the biggest problem with this mall is that the management doesn't care. They aren't being responsive to the retailers or the customers. I'm told that H&M is looking to bail and move to Penn. They have a huge space. The word around the mall is that as soon as their deal is up...Von Mar is gone. I'm also told that AMC currently has no plans for a big remodel. As of now, the AMC in Penn is making more money per seat sales than Quail. And if they think the fitness place will increase sales...they are crazy. Who wants to go shopping then workout? Or who wants to go work out and then go shopping? Odds are it will have no impact on sales. yes...more folks will be parking in the north lot...big deal. That most likely will not result in more sales. GGP just doesn't care really. You have roughly 20 vacant spots...but you refuse to negotiate with retailers for those spots. They would rather make no money than lease them for a reduced rate.

[bchris02]

I have been told that one of the national chain stores recently asked the mall management if they could move to one of the larger, open spaces, so they could expand their inventory and offerings. They were offering to sign a lease of 3-5 years. All they asked in return was a break on the rent for the first 3 years then back up to market rate and the mall said "No." As has been said...the biggest problem with this mall is that the management doesn't care. They aren't being responsive to the retailers or the customers. I'm told that H&M is looking to bail and move to Penn. They have a huge space. The word around the mall is that as soon as their deal is up...Von Mar is gone. I'm also told that AMC currently has no plans for a big remodel. As of now, the AMC in Penn is making more money per seat sales than Quail. And if they think the fitness place will increase sales...they are crazy. Who wants to go shopping then workout? Or who wants to go work out and then go shopping? Odds are it will have no impact on sales. yes...more folks will be parking in the north lot...big deal. That most likely will not result in more sales. GGP just doesn't care really. You have roughly 20 vacant spots...but you refuse to negotiate with retailers for those spots. They would rather make no money than lease them for a reduced rate.

If this is true, then QSM has likely crossed the point of no return. Hopefully H&M is able to move to Penn. That's where they really belong and it would be a shame for this market to lose them. It's also a shame regarding Von Maur. They likely would have been successful if they would have gone somewhere other than QSM and there is a chance their failure could impact OKC's future ability to attract upscale retail. Upscale retailers are already unusually cautious about OKC compared to other markets this size. The AMC is very dated by movie theater standards (it feels like stepping back to the 90s to go see a movie there) and as soon as there are better/more modern options in north OKC they will likely see a decline. Once that happens, the mall is done.

[jonny d]

If this is true, then QSM has likely crossed the point of no return. Hopefully H&M is able to move to Penn. That's where they really belong and it would be a shame for this market to lose them. It's also a shame regarding Von Maur. They likely would have been successful if they would have gone somewhere other than QSM and there is a chance their failure could impact OKC's future ability to attract upscale retail. Upscale retailers are already unusually cautious about OKC compared to other markets this size. The AMC is very dated by movie theater standards (it feels like stepping back to the 90s to go see a movie there) and as soon as there are better/more modern options in north OKC they will likely see a decline. Once that happens, the mall is done.

Eh, they can look at the numerous other uber-successsful retail areas in the market (Classen Curve/Nichols Hills, Penn Square). OKC won't have trouble attracting upscale retail, in my opinion. It does stink that GGP doesnt care about Quail, though.

[yukong]

I forgot to add...I know that at least one more national chain store (small-mid size) is planning on looking for a different location in the coming weeks. They are going to approach Penn...and also look at a strip style retail location. Sadly, they see the writing on the wall. And it is sad because they have seen sales growth this year over previous years, but they are getting concerned about the mall traffic that is declining. Even as their sales have increased. They have a fairly loyal following...but they fear the decline of AMC. AMC is what drives a great deal of the traffic in the mall. As was said...the upcoming theater locations in NW OKC will likely drive AMC's traffic down even further.

[barrettd]

The AMC is very dated by movie theater standards (it feels like stepping back to the 90s to go see a movie there) and as soon as there are better/more modern options in north OKC they will likely see a decline. Once that happens, the mall is done.

I'd just offer that I like the AMC at QSM 100% more than Penn Square. The theatre at PS, aside from the inside of the screening rooms, I don't think has changed a bit since they opened, what, 20 years ago? Once you get in the screening room, it's great, but everything else about that theatre turns me off. It still smells like it did when I saw Batman there in 89 or 90. The tiny little concessions at the front makes me nuts, too.

I far prefer the experience at QSM. A direct entrance would be nice, and better seating would be even better. Neither will probably happen, I guess. With 2 small kids, I don't really go to movies all that much anyway.

[Rover]

Tinseltown is a great value alternative to QS AMC. No one wants to go through the mall and my tickets are 1/3 the price....literally.

[barrettd]

Tinseltown is a great value alternative to QS AMC. No one wants to go through the mall and my tickets are 1/3 the price....literally.

I tend to go before noon, and tickets are $5 at QSM on the weekends before noon (at least they were the last time I went, which was probably in 2017). Plus I don't want to drive down to Tinseltown.

I am looking forward to having a few more options in the Quail Springs area (Chisholm Creek, etc).

[Plutonic Panda]

Would be cool to see Von Maur open up a department store downtown. Even better if Neiman Marcus opened up along Park Ave.

[baralheia]

I'd just offer that I like the AMC at QSM 100% more than Penn Square. The theatre at PS, aside from the inside of the screening rooms, I don't think has changed a bit since they opened, what, 20 years ago? Once you get in the screening room, it's great, but everything else about that theatre turns me off. It still smells like it did when I saw Batman there in 89 or 90. The tiny little concessions at the front makes me nuts, too.

I far prefer the experience at QSM. A direct entrance would be nice, and better seating would be even better. Neither will probably happen, I guess. With 2 small kids, I don't really go to movies all that much anyway.

That theater opened under the General Cinemas banner back in 1988, then switched to Hollywood in 1998, then Dickinson in 2002, and finally AMC took over in 2012. I worked in that theatre in 2005-2006 while it was a Dickinson. That theatre always felt worn and tired despite a remodel that happened when Dickinson took over (which also included converting auditoriums 3, 6, 9, and 10 to stadium seating). When AMC bought it, they did quite a bit of work to clean it up and give everything a fresh coat of paint. They also replaced all of the carpet, overhauled the bathrooms, reconfigured and overhauled the concession stand, installed reclining leather chairs in every auditorium, replaced all of the old film projectors with digital cinema projectors, replaced multiple blown speakers, changed lighting fixtures, even replaced a couple of the screens. It's far, far better than it was under Dickinson's ownership.

Fun fact, that theatre has technically come full circle. A few years after General Cinemas pulled out of Oklahoma, they ended up going totally bankrupt and AMC bought their remaining assets. AMC's ownership of the Penn Square theater brings it back into the fold.

I also worked for AMC at Quail Springs in 2001-2002. That theatre opened in mid December 1998 and aside from a few changes in the auditoriums and the removal of the glass front wall of the box office, that theater remains largely unchanged since it opened.