Wheeler District

[PhiAlpha]

I knew Kris when he was in high school with my kiddo but haven't kept up other than seeing him around the net. He's a keeper. More than I can say for some here.

Wheeler will probably survive this PR disaster in spite of Daddy and their own ineptitude at dealing with the aftermath.

Definitely agree with that part.

[krisb]

I knew Kris when he was in high school with my kiddo but haven't kept up other than seeing him around the net. He's a keeper. More than I can say for some here.

Wheeler will probably survive this PR disaster in spite of Daddy and their own ineptitude at dealing with the aftermath.

Thank you for your kind words.

[krisb]

I honestly wish Ed and his proxy, Kris, would just go away. Arguing with Kris here during the mayoral campaign was like talking to a wall.

I happen to agree with Ed on many issues because we believe that everyone should have a voice in this city and that there are too many back door deals at City Hall. Truth be told, I would love to live in Wheeler if I could afford it. New Urbanist communities are my gold standard for quality of life. Their downside is they trend towards catering to the wealthy and lack ethnic and socioeconomic diversity. I am not alone in calling for Kirk to resign from all of his board positions because of his comments. The tide of public opinion has gone that direction. I would welcome an opportunity to chat with you over coffee as online forums are sometimes like talking to a wall.

[AP]

Truth be told, I would love to live in Wheeler if I could afford it. New Urbanist communities are my gold standard for quality of life. Their downside is they trend towards catering to the wealthy and lack ethnic and socioeconomic diversity.

+1000

[catcherinthewry]

I thought they were going to have affordable options.

[dankrutka]

I thought they were going to have affordable options.

That has been my understanding too. I believe creating racially, culturally, and socioeconomically diverse neighborhoods is one of the most important social issues of our time, particularly because they lead to diverse schools. I thought there was an emphasis on frontloading the more expensive options because it's harder to add those later. As long as they're committed to that plan then I don't see the problem. Am I understanding their plan correctly?

[krisb]

That is my understanding and I will hold them to it. You can't say something is affordable just because it is 600 square feet and therefore below 200K. I understand the frontloading concept. When it's all said and done, not every home in Wheeler needs the same level of finish. The target demographic of Wheeler is not just yuppies and retirees, but artists, makers, small business owners, and young families who can't afford $200+ psf. If you want THOSE people in the district, affordability is a must.

[BoulderSooner]

Very unlikely anything under 200 a sqft will ever be built in wheeler or anywhere else downtown

[Pete]

I believe creating racially, culturally, and socioeconomically diverse neighborhoods is one of the most important social issues of our time

Yes, and the complete lack of this among baby boomers (I'm at the tail end) has led directly to the current culture wars being waged due to an older generation who was almost completely segregated from any diversity at all, and thus terrified of it.

I graduated from Putnam City High School in 1978 and out of 3,200 kids in 3 grades, we had maybe 5 African Americans and virtually no Latinos or Asian students. We didn't have a black athlete letter in sports until 1977. Think about that! This at the largest public school in the state. Same way at most the Tulsa and OKC suburban schools until sometime in the 80's. Therefore, everyone raised here until that time had only exposure to people who were almost completely homogeneous.

It took moving to Los Angeles to finally interact and therefore understand people of different cultures and it completely changed my perspective on almost everything.

And of course, OKC and Tulsa are still largely quite segregated, especially when it comes to socio-economics. Much more so than most larger cities.

[SouthSide]

I don't understand the emphasis that this particular development has to be a utopia of culturally and economic diversity.

[krisb]

I don't understand the emphasis that this particular development has to be a utopia of culturally and economic diversity.

Only to the extent that calling a place "urban" requires such diversity and only because the developers themselves said it would be so. I think market forces (ignoring the huge TIF subsidy) will ultimately determine the profile of the neighborhood.

[TheTravellers]

...

“I said some things that I deeply regret,” Humphreys said. “I do not think that it is right or appropriate to equate homosexuality with pedophilia. … My greatest regret is that I’ve hurt a lot of people. I know I should always seek to speak the truth in love.”

...

Sorry, not on-topic, but had to say something. If you "do not think that it is right or appropriate to equate homosexuality with pedophilia.", then why the hell did you go on TV and do it? I can almost ga-ron-tee that he's only apologizing because he got busted, not because he truly feels sorry for what he said.

[riflesforwatie]

Very unlikely anything under 200 a sqft will ever be built in wheeler or anywhere else downtown

Probably true.

OKC isn't San Francisco or New York.

Central OKC will continue to have some expensive bare dirt.

[riflesforwatie]

Sorry, not on-topic, but had to say something. If you "do not think that it is right or appropriate to equate homosexuality with pedophilia.", then why the hell did you go on TV and do it? I can almost ga-ron-tee that he's only apologizing because he got busted, not because he truly feels sorry for what he said.

I absolutely agree, which is why it's important he resigned from the OU Regents.

[dankrutka]

I don't understand the emphasis that this particular development has to be a utopia of culturally and economic diversity.

It should be for any neighborhood, but not necessarily every development. Wheeler is building an entire neighborhood from scratch in an area that is diverse already. To build a homogeneous, wealthy, and exclusive neighborhood from scrap in a diverse community would be a total failure. Besides, the developers have already made commitments towards SES and linguistic diversity from my recollections. So, those are the reasons this neighborhood development is held to a higher standard.

[dcsooner]

Yes, and the complete lack of this among baby boomers (I'm at the tail end) has led directly to the current culture wars being waged due to an older generation who was almost completely segregated from any diversity at all, and thus terrified of it.

I graduated from Putnam City High School in 1978 and out of 3,200 kids in 3 grades, we had maybe 5 African Americans and virtually no Latinos or Asian students. We didn't have a black athlete letter in sports until 1977. Think about that! This at the largest public school in the state. Same way at most the Tulsa and OKC suburban schools until sometime in the 80's. Therefore, everyone raised here until that time had only exposure to people who were almost completely homogeneous.

It took moving to Los Angeles to finally interact and therefore understand people of different cultures and it completely changed my perspective on almost everything.

And of course, OKC and Tulsa are still largely quite segregated, especially when it comes to socio-economics. Much more so than most larger cities.

+1

[Teo9969]

Very unlikely anything under 200 a sqft will ever be built in wheeler or anywhere else downtown

Get it while it's hot:

[mugofbeer]

Very unlikely anything under 200 a sqft will ever be built in wheeler or anywhere else downtown

Nor should there be. That size of a dwelling is the same as a good sized bedroom. It would quickly become a run down piece of property.

[mugofbeer]

Yes, and the complete lack of this among baby boomers (I'm at the tail end) has led directly to the current culture wars being waged due to an older generation who was almost completely segregated from any diversity at all, and thus terrified of it.

I graduated from Putnam City High School in 1978 and out of 3,200 kids in 3 grades, we had maybe 5 African Americans and virtually no Latinos or Asian students. We didn't have a black athlete letter in sports until 1977. Think about that! This at the largest public school in the state. Same way at most the Tulsa and OKC suburban schools until sometime in the 80's. Therefore, everyone raised here until that time had only exposure to people who were almost completely homogeneous.

It took moving to Los Angeles to finally interact and therefore understand people of different cultures and it completely changed my perspective on almost everything.

And of course, OKC and Tulsa are still largely quite segregated, especially when it comes to socio-economics. Much more so than most larger cities.

I am the same age as you. I went to OKC Public schools and have started into a forced integration situation once in Jr. High. You're observation of Baby Boomers, in my opinion, is one-generation off. Its their parents who had the issues. The problem I see across the country is partially one of generation, but more one of a widely accepted religious faith that preaches some of these thoughts and ideas that are becoming unacceptable. On the other hand, many of you who are younger need to be a little more understanding of what Pete is saying, times are different than what they were 50 years ago. Beliefs preached to you for 50 years or longer are hard to just up and change. Millennials weren't around then, so they would not understand what it was like. My family came here from Georgia 100+ years ago and I had a racist grandfather. I don't cast his memory to hell because of it, that is simply how he was raised through all parts of his life - l understand why he was that way. I think people need to be a little more tolerant and work with those who have outmoded beliefs with calm talk and reason rather than virtually throwing them all to the wolves. You live long enough, you will all get a skeleton or two in your closets

[dankrutka]

^^^
I don’t agree there’s a need to be tolerant of any bigoted views, but I agree in general with the sentiment that we should not just dismiss elders or other people completely. Everyone is complex. I loved my grandmother and she listened to conservative radio and repeated a number of anti-immigrant views in particular. I didn’t accept those views and challenged her, but I did so with kindness. Eventually, she either changed her beliefs or distanced herself from those divisive views. Our relationship was stronger because of it. I also gained a lot of wisdom from her. So, I agree, it’s generally not helpful to see the world or other people as simply good or bad, right or wrong. But this is also easy for me to say because none of this bigotry or discrimination affects me personally. For people who face oppression, I understand their responses may very well be to dismiss those people. I don’t know.

[bradh]

To get back on topic about the development, it's said they have to do the more expensive development first to get everything to work. Why would someone who is going to pay top dollar, all of a sudden 5 years from now not throw a giant hissy fit when "affordable housing" gets ramped up just down the street? Have we not learned anything from previous development? Where has anyone seen people in desirable appreciating real estate been cool with much cheaper property being built near them? Could they have built the more reasonable housing first here targeting maybe single professionals or young couples with emerging incomes, and let the growth into more expensive property happen naturally?

Sorry that's a bit of a rant, but I can tell you if Bob and Sally Boomer are the ones buying in first, you can bet your ass when the "affordable" housing gets planned they'll be bitching and moaning at the hilltops.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^
They are buying into a development with a clearly-stated goal of mixed incomes and a variety of housing options including freestanding homes with yards, row houses, tiny homes, and multi-family. They are also buying into a neighborhood with a stated goal of a dual immersion school and planned, full-on interaction with a very low-income neighborhood to the west. If they have a problem with this approach, they can’t say that they weren’t warned.

Also, people hopefully aren’t confusing “mixed income” with “low income.” Everything will be market rate, which is simply higher in the center city for new construction. And hopefully they’re not thinking that they should be able to buy a 3 BR house with a yard for anywhere near what you might pay for a tract home in an exurban development that was a farmer’s field a year or two ago. Without question they will be paying a premium for location and neighborhood amenities.

Will young couples just starting out be able to afford to live there as more diverse housing product comes online in future phases? Yes. Will they be able to afford the same size home they could get in Deer Creek or Moore? No.

But anyone looking for an elitist enclave where there aren’t smaller homes, town houses, apartments and the like, or who don’t want to live near low income neighbors - hundreds of Section 8 units and really modest housing are just a stone’s throw away and their residents are being actively welcomed to interact with the new district - should not consider Wheeler, frankly. And they will not be allowed to NIMBY efforts to build smaller and/or more dense product in future phases. That said, the strategy to not LEAD with multi family or less expensive options is 100% solid and correct.

[mkjeeves]

Yes, and the complete lack of this among baby boomers (I'm at the tail end) has led directly to the current culture wars being waged due to an older generation who was almost completely segregated from any diversity at all, and thus terrified of it.

I graduated from Putnam City High School in 1978 and out of 3,200 kids in 3 grades, we had maybe 5 African Americans and virtually no Latinos or Asian students. We didn't have a black athlete letter in sports until 1977. Think about that! This at the largest public school in the state. Same way at most the Tulsa and OKC suburban schools until sometime in the 80's. Therefore, everyone raised here until that time had only exposure to people who were almost completely homogeneous.

It took moving to Los Angeles to finally interact and therefore understand people of different cultures and it completely changed my perspective on almost everything.

And of course, OKC and Tulsa are still largely quite segregated, especially when it comes to socio-economics. Much more so than most larger cities.

Depends on several factors. I am and was a middle class boomer. Lived and went to school in OKC (Taft), rural Arkansas, rural Oklahoma, Albuquerque, South and North Alabama 60's through mid '70s. OKC, Oklahoma, Arkansas were pretty white as I look back, even though we were part of the early busing in OKC. Albuquerque and the South not so much. That said, reoccuring black/white race riots during high school in the south were a thing.

[ABCOKC]

And of course, OKC and Tulsa are still largely quite segregated, especially when it comes to socio-economics. Much more so than most larger cities.

This is simply not true.

OKC ranks 142nd out of 318 American cities according to the dissimilarity index.

Data from the University of Michigan identify OKC as the 67th most segregated metropolitan area out of 102 with more than half a million residents.

In terms of socioeconomics, OKC is the 19th most segregated of America's major cities, behind New York, Dallas, LA, SF, Kansas City, St Louis, Indianapolis, Nashville, Louisville, and others. We are roughly tied with Chicago in that regard.

Since your claim isn't founded on actual evidence, I can only assume it's based on your own political views and biases.

[dankrutka]

There are numerous ways to calculate segregation and since segregation is a vast problem in the U.S., being around the middle does NOT indicate segregation is not a problem. I won’t try to speak as to where OKC ranks in relation to other states, but I know enough about segregation across and within schools in the metro to know it’s a problem regardless of where OKC sits in relation to others. For example, the segregation of Hispanic students is getting worse: http://m.newsok.com/article/5518612

From the article:
“Hispanic students in Oklahoma City Public Schools are segregated at the same rate black students were before a court- ordered desegregation plan that bused black students to white schools.

In 1970, a year before busing began, 71 percent of black students in the district attended a school with black enrollment of 70 percent or higher. Last year, 71 percent of Hispanic students in Oklahoma City Public Schools attended a school with Hispanic enrollment of 70 percent or higher, according to The Oklahoman's analysis of data provided by the district.”

That only 15% of OKCPS students are white suggests widespread white flight that has resulted in intense segregation.

I recommend reading the whole thing. Ben Felder is an excellent education reporter.

Anyway, this is a complex discussion, but trying to completely dismiss Pete’s explanation as unsupported partisan bias revealed a lot more about your bias than his.