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Thread: Memorial Rd. Development

  1. #1
    Patrick Guest

    Default Memorial Rd. Development

    Tom Blanton really rubs me the wrong way. He's so focused on Memorial Rd. development and not very optomistic about downtown retail. Whatever. Glad he's not running the show downtown.

    Again, that's my continued problem with Memrial Rd. development and urban sprawl. It's drawing away from interest in downtown. If the Memorial Rd. corridor didn't exist, we'd probably have PF Changs in Bricktown. Afterall, Bricktown was the 2nd choice, after Memorial Rd. For the comments Changs made in the recent year about our downtown restaurant market, I hope they fail in their current location. Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm just a downtown guy!

    -----------
    "Strong growth foreseen for Memorial corridor
    by Heidi R. Centrella
    The Journal Record
    1/14/2005



    After more than 20 years in the making, businesses near and far are flooding the Memorial Road shopping stretch, creating the busiest retail district of the city and generating millions in revenues.
    Approximately 3 million square feet of retail, restaurants and retail-related businesses make up the mile-and-a-half strip, generating annual sales revenues of roughly $800 million.

    With recent openings such as Best Buy, Circuit City, PF Chang's China Bistro and Johnnie's Charcoal Express entering the area, it's no surprise even more businesses are under construction, including Bravo Cucina Italiana, Home Depot, Books-A-Million, Smokey Bones and Men's Wearhouse.

    Real estate entrepreneur Tom Blanton said the building trend is far from over and credited factors such as strong demographics, higher household incomes, strong numbers from existing retailers and an excellent highway system bringing people from all parts of the metro area.

    "It's the center of the growth and established neighborhoods in northwest Oklahoma City - the bulls-eye, if you will," Blanton said. "The word is out nationally with these retailers looking to expand that Quail Springs is a good area for strong sales."

    Plans for the area have been on the books for more than 20 years, around the time Quail Springs Mall was built in the early '80s. But after the oil bust, everything came to a standstill in what is now considered the super regional retail location in Oklahoma City.

    "Quail Springs was built out on a prairie, and the retail was supposed to follow," Blanton said. "Some did. But then the economic downturn of the mid-'80s came and Oklahoma City was off the radar screen, basically red-lined from retail."

    In the early '90s, however, Memorial Road space around May and Pennsylvania started catching the eyes of both local and national retailers. It then evolved into the strong retail region it is known as today.

    Blanton said because the Quail Springs area has experienced such rapid growth and success, it demands some of the highest rental rates and land prices in town. But this doesn't appear to discourage business owners.

    "There are several other deals that are in the works that will bring additional retail and restaurants to the Quail Springs area," Blanton said. "Those announcements will be made sometime in 2005."

    Matt Lokay has worked at various Best Buy stores for four years. He now is the general manager at the company's 2135 W. Memorial Road location, which, he said, is the best store he's worked in.

    "It's a great location because of the amount of traffic this area pulls," Lokay said. "The sheer foot traffic we see in this store is incredible. We're busy all the time."

    No one can answer which came first, the retail chicken or the residential egg to its north. But that begs the question: If they build it, will they come?

    It is an issue the downtown area is struggling with today as it continues to feed off the MAPS-driven past 10 years.

    While developers one by one have been adding their own element of luxury living to downtown Oklahoma City, retail growth still lags behind.

    "Bricktown has made great strides with the Harkins theater and Bass Pro and the restaurants," Blanton said. "Can you look in a crystal ball and predict how much retail there will be? I don't know. I think there's a place, in due time, for downtown retail."

    Blanton credited much of W. Memorial Road's retail success with the growth of west Edmond, Gaillardia and Quail Creek, the school system and office growth. But he also credited the city's roadways - the expansion of the Kilpatrick Turnpike, the four highways pumping in traffic, Broadway Extension and Lake Hefner Parkway.

    Despite all the hullabaloo surrounding traffic problems in the area, Best Buy's Lokay said it hasn't been a problem with the store's four possible entrances.

    Consumers continually flock to and support the northwest retail shopping mecca, Blanton said

    "The city of Oklahoma City has done a good job without making any road improvements," Blanton said. "They are now paying attention to the situation at Quail Springs and, from my understanding, they are working on plans to improve the intersections to alleviate some of the congestion.

    "The city has no choice," he said. "At some point in time they will have to make improvements to relieve some traffic pressure, because the people of Oklahoma City will keep coming."

  2. #2

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    yes its sad but downtown's day will come, that is an underserved area with all of the high income households. it will pay off for downtown in the long run, maybe with higher end stores

  3. #3
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    I really hope so. Maybe you're right though...Memorial Rd. is getting a lot of development right now, but it isn't upscale. It's just typical suburban style development. Maybe downtown will became breeding grounds for upscale development....something similar to SpringCreek Plaza in Edmond. I notice that Memorial Rd. hasn't been able to attract that kind of development yet.

  4. #4
    Floating_adrift Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    I live just north of Memorial and having the shopping so nearby is extremely convenient for me. If I had to drive downtown for the places I can go here, I'd never go. Theres quite a large market in this area and I personally like seeing a lot of the things moving this way, although architecturally it leaves a lot to be desired. I think the city planners weren't thinking so much about the culture in the area as much as the $$$.

    On a side note, It's somewhat disconcerting to hear that you wish PF Changs to fail, seeing as how you are moderating a site dedicated to the bettering of OKC - I imagined that this site is meant for OKC as a whole - not just downtown OKC. Otherwise, it should be called 'DowntownOKCtalk.com'. Blunt, meet blunt.

    One question though, does Bricktown charge for parking in the evenings? If so, they should think about 'not' charging after 5pm or 6pm and free weekends. Several cities I've lived in did well downtown because the parking was free after a certain time. It may not be a large fee to park for the evening, but a little thing like that could be keeping an entire market sector from coming in for the evening.
    Last edited by Floating_adrift; 01-14-2005 at 01:33 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #5
    Sooner&RiceGrad Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    I live sorta by Quail Springs, I think that, even though downtown growth would tickle my fancy best, this is the second best thing possible for Oklahoma City and it's metro, 1.2 million strong and growing rapidly.

  6. #6
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    As metro pointed out, the types of development are different. Memorial Rd. is being turned into more of a NW Expressway type development....in fact Memorial Rd. is often compared to NW Expressway in its earlier stages of development, only NW Expressway has much more traffic and covers more area. Both Memorial Rd. and NW Expressway have a lot of suburban style strip centers and low to middle-end stores like Old Navy, Wal-Mart, Ross, Home Depot, etc. etc.

    I really hope that future downtown development focuses more on upscale establishments.

    Memorial Rd. really on serves the far N. side and Edmond. Downtown will be able to attract people from all over the metro.

    I think it's kind of like comparing Grapevine Mills mall to the Dallas Galleria. Sure, the Grapevine Mills mall may be the "in thing" but there's really nothing unique about it. It's just a large warehouse filled with typical outlet stores. I'd choose the Dallas Galleria with all of its upscale stores, architecture, and upscale hoel, over the Grapevine Mills Mall any day of the week. No comparison. The Dallas Galleria definitely serves young professionals and the creative class.

  7. #7
    Sooner&RiceGrad Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Too bad OKC doesn't have a galleria, and doesn't have a mills, lol.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    yes we get the point you want a mills mall

  9. #9
    Sooner&RiceGrad Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    and... the Oklahoma Galleria.

  10. Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Agghhh, malls, mills or not, are a dying breed. I'm pinning my hopes on retail lifestyle center in the Flatiron, however.

  11. #11
    Sooner&RiceGrad Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Mills is building about 5 new outlet malls, mostly in the Great Lakes area.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Floating_adrift
    I live just north of Memorial and having the shopping so nearby is extremely convenient for me. If I had to drive downtown for the places I can go here, I'd never go. Theres quite a large market in this area and I personally like seeing a lot of the things moving this way, although architecturally it leaves a lot to be desired. I think the city planners weren't thinking so much about the culture in the area as much as the $$$.

    On a side note, It's somewhat disconcerting to hear that you wish PF Changs to fail, seeing as how you are moderating a site dedicated to the bettering of OKC - I imagined that this site is meant for OKC as a whole - not just downtown OKC. Otherwise, it should be called 'DowntownOKCtalk.com'. Blunt, meet blunt.

    One question though, does Bricktown charge for parking in the evenings? If so, they should think about 'not' charging after 5pm or 6pm and free weekends. Several cities I've lived in did well downtown because the parking was free after a certain time. It may not be a large fee to park for the evening, but a little thing like that could be keeping an entire market sector from coming in for the evening.
    I don't think our parking prices in Bricktown are out of line at all. If you want to compare to other cities, I think they're very reasonable. There's a club district in Dallas, I forget the name, but it seems like it's 4 miles (I think East) of downtown. I remember going there (vaguely) and paying around $18-$20 for some really bad parking.

    As I recall, the area was absolutely packed -- lines outside of most clubs.

    $6.00 really isn't that far out of line. I do think we need a few better venues though.

  13. #13
    Sooner&RiceGrad Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Where did you get 6$. I always pay $3 for good parking right in front of the Bourbon Street Cafe.
    Last edited by Sooner&RiceGrad; 01-14-2005 at 03:31 PM. Reason: forgot numeral

  14. #14

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    I'm pinning my hopes on some really nice development on the south side of downtown after the Crosstown realighment. Currently, the area is full of industrial buildings.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Midtowner, you are thinking about Deep Ellum and yes parking can easily cost $20 dollars in that club/bar area and the waits are ridiculous and most of the clubs arent much better

  16. #16
    Floating_adrift Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    My point is that the parking fee structure is something they could look at. $6 may not be much, but it might be that one thing that is keeping some people from going.

    Seattle has no parking fees after 6pm. None at all on Sundays.

    I think it might be counterproductive to charge people to park when you are trying to get them to come spend money.

  17. #17
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner
    I don't think our parking prices in Bricktown are out of line at all. If you want to compare to other cities, I think they're very reasonable. There's a club district in Dallas, I forget the name, but it seems like it's 4 miles (I think East) of downtown. I remember going there (vaguely) and paying around $18-$20 for some really bad parking.

    As I recall, the area was absolutely packed -- lines outside of most clubs.

    $6.00 really isn't that far out of line. I do think we need a few better venues though.
    I agree with you Midtowner. All along I've always wondered why people complain about the parking prices in our downtown. Every major downtown area charges for parking. Last time I was in San Antonio, parking right on the Riverwalk was $12. We payed $7, but it was quite a walk. But, venues do make a difference......$12 on the Riverwalk is probably a better deal than $6 on our canal. Still, I think our point is obvious.

  18. #18
    Sooner&RiceGrad Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    They aren't any better .Bricktown s the South central's largest entertainment district, period. You can't compare it without hinting that nothing else will come close.

  19. #19
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Floating_adrift
    My point is that the parking fee structure is something they could look at. $6 may not be much, but it might be that one thing that is keeping some people from going.

    Seattle has no parking fees after 6pm. None at all on Sundays.

    I think it might be counterproductive to charge people to park when you are trying to get them to come spend money.
    I think the parking system that Lower Bricktown will eventually use is fair. Eventually the merchants in Lower Bricktown will validate parking tickets in their lots, if you use their services.

    This could expand to the entire Bricktown area.

  20. #20
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooner&RiceGrad
    They aren't any better .Bricktown s the South central's largest entertainment district, period. You can't compare it without hinting that nothing else will come close.
    Bricktown doesn't even begin to compare to the San Antonio Riverwalk. The San Antonio Riverwalk has venues like Hard Rock, Planet Hollywood, a two level mall, tons of upscale hotels (a Hyatt!!!). Also, the San Antonio Riverwalk is 3 times the length of our canal. Maybe someday Bricktown will compare, but not anytime soon.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Doesn't Bricktown get just as many visitors as San Antonio's Riverwalk though?

  22. #22
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Floating_adrift
    I live just north of Memorial and having the shopping so nearby is extremely convenient for me. If I had to drive downtown for the places I can go here, I'd never go. Theres quite a large market in this area and I personally like seeing a lot of the things moving this way, although architecturally it leaves a lot to be desired. I think the city planners weren't thinking so much about the culture in the area as much as the $$$.

    On a side note, It's somewhat disconcerting to hear that you wish PF Changs to fail, seeing as how you are moderating a site dedicated to the bettering of OKC - I imagined that this site is meant for OKC as a whole - not just downtown OKC. Otherwise, it should be called 'DowntownOKCtalk.com'. Blunt, meet blunt.
    Oh, I was just exaggerating when I said I hope PF Changs fails. I'm just a little upset that they commented that downtown wasn't "upscale" enough. It isn't like Memorial and Penn is anymore upscale.....in fact, probably less so. The restaurants and stores on Memorial aren't upscale.

    I am for the bettering of OKC, but at the same time, I don't necessarily think creating a traffic nightmare at one intersection due to poor planning is my idea of bettering OKC. Also, the development on Memorial Rd. isn't unique...it's just your run of the mill suburban development.

    Just my $0.02.

    I will be honest though....I do favor downtown and inner city development, so when I see urban sprawl taking away from the bettering of our downtown area, it's concerning to me. Memorial Rd. did hurt downtown in regards to PF Changs......downtown was second on their list after Memorial Rd.

  23. #23
    Floating_adrift Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooner&RiceGrad
    They aren't any better .Bricktown s the South central's largest entertainment district, period. You can't compare it without hinting that nothing else will come close.
    What defines an entertainment district? Seems like something like Six Flags would be larger - it's hard to imagine that OKC has the largest Entertainment district. New Orleans is pretty good sized, and entertaining

  24. #24
    Sooner&RiceGrad Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    San Antone's River Walk, I believe, is not quite an entertainment district. The River Walk is too unique, they have string of restraunts, but really that is all. They have tons of hotels, murals and statues (we are just now getting our memorials) and even more, the River Walk goes through downtown San Antone, and the bricktown canal does not.

  25. #25
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Memorial Rd. Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooner&RiceGrad
    Where did you get 6$. I always pay $3 for good parking right in front of the Bourbon Street Cafe.
    I the depends on the time of the day and what events are in town. Brewer alters his prices based on demand. Typically prices are $3 during the day, and $6 at night. They've been as much as $12-15 during concerts.

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