SOKC Police Chase of black truck 11/10/2017

[BLJR]

Disclaimer: I am posting this just to get other peoples point of views, and I don't expect everyone (or anyone) to agree with me.

From what I saw and heard, I don't think that the OKCPD were of any use today. When the guy in the truck elected to run a car off the road during the chase, it was at that point in time that he showed complete disregard to other lives, and the police should have beefed up the force and engaged the suspect, even if that meant shooting him. Yet, they just followed him around. There were several instances that he neared other houses, and could have entered these houses, and the police weren't in a position to stop him. Could have been a hostage situation in seconds.

From what I heard from a law enforcement friend, the Cleveland County sheriff basically told the OKCPD to get out of the way due to lack of action, and ended this thing in the rural farm field before it escalated, and the OKCPD could have done the same.

I don't want to see the suspect get shot, but I have to go back to when he endangered other lives. That could have been someone's parents, grandparents, kids, friends, one of you all on this board that I agree and disagree with in that car.

Kudos to the Moore Public School Systems for locking down schools and sending a broadcast message to all parents. That is how I found out about what was going on.

[Ginkasa]

I didn't see the chase prior to the standoff in the fields near Indian Hills and Penn, so I can't speak to the specifics of what exactly occurred. However, based on what you described, I imagine the thought process of hanging back is to try to ease the pressure on the suspect and prevent him from feeling taking a hostage or reaching extreme speeds is necessary. Perhaps OCPD could have been more bullish in trying to stop the suspect, but those attempts might have failed and caused the suspect to become more desperate and this more dangerous not to mention placing nearby civilians in danger just by utilizing more aggressive tactics. My understanding is they had a helicopter monitoring the suspect at all times, so there wasn't a danger of losing him by hanging back.

When they got him into the fields, they could have been (and Cleveland County eventually was) more aggressive and ended it sooner without placing any civilians in danger. However, that also means the suspect wasn't really posing a threat to anyone and waiting him out might have resulted in a peaceful resolution without endangering the officers and damaging police vehicles.

Personally, I don't think there's a singular right way to handle situations like these. There are going to be advantages and disadvantages to many different approaches and you can't be 100% certain how a suspect will react or what will happen in any given situation and there's going to be some kind of danger whether you're using more or less aggressive tactics. In the end, my understanding is that no one was injured (other than the tased suspect) and other than some damage to fields there was only minor damage to a single vehicle from the earlier chase. Was this luck or a result of OCPD not pressuring the suspect to be more reckless? I don't know, but it turned out well in this occasion.

[Bullbear]

Can we talk about the danger of showing a live feed for 3 hours on Live television which resulted in a citizen trying to intervene and pulling a gun on the suspect to shoot his tire? I don't think we needed live coverage on this. That could have went south real quick.

[BLJR]

Can we talk about the danger of showing a live feed for 3 hours on Live television which resulted in a citizen trying to intervene and pulling a gun on the suspect to shoot his tire? I don't think we needed live coverage on this. That could have went south real quick.

Bullbear, I saw the footage of the citizen, but didn't know where he came into play (if it was his stolen truck, damage to property, etc...). If he was a citizen that was watching the trainwreck and decided to get involved, then yeah, you are correct. Plus, I think it promotes the next guy to do this as well, as he will see how much publicity and 3 hours of fame this guy received, and will expect the same.

[OkiePoke]

KOCO reported the citizen was arrested.

I'm not sure if the correct action was to wait for 45 minutes for the suspect to give up. It seemed as he had already given up when he stopped in the field. If there was a coordinated take down with vehicles (armored if weapons were a concern), he wouldn't have had the chance to get back on the road, nearly hitting News9, then ultimately ending up in the pond.

[Ginkasa]

KOCO reported the citizen was arrested.

I'm not sure if the correct action was to wait for 45 minutes for the suspect to give up. It seemed as he had already given up when he stopped in the field. If there was a coordinated take down with vehicles (armored if weapons were a concern), he wouldn't have had the chance to get back on the road, nearly hitting News9, then ultimately ending up in the pond.

I definitely think the ultimate take down attempt could have been executed better, probably, but I think the situation described is largely why they tried to wait him out rather than aggressively take him down.

[Thomas Vu]

I watched a good hour of it, and there were times where poor communication led to the chase extending a lot longer than it should have. He was trapped in the corner of a field and because the police didn't close in from two separate spots the truck was able to drive towards them and get away.

There was a second time too on a looped road where the police didn't cut him off from both ends and was able to go out the other way.

They n ever really trailed him. Although it's worth noting he was on a cell phone the entire time and somebody could have been describing to him what they saw. He managed to conveniently stop when nobody was trailing him.

[Jeepnokc]

The guy in the truck posted a youtube video of himself during the chase. Also, the guy that shot the tires out was arrested also

[SoonerDave]

This guy was desperate and under the influence of who knows what. I think he, at the end, was daring police to shoot him. There’s no one simple playbook to execute here. He was running through neighborhoods and racing through streets like he really didn't care. Not sure how the OCPD or anyone else could necessarily have done better. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

[BBatesokc]

This guy was desperate and under the influence of who knows what. I think he, at the end, was daring police to shoot him. There’s no one simple playbook to execute here. He was running through neighborhoods and racing through streets like he really didn't care. Not sure how the OCPD or anyone else could necessarily have done better. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

I agree. I'm no OCPD cheerleader, but I don't know how so many can criticize their actions when this ended without anyone hurt.

So many ways this could have gone wrong, but it didn't.

I love all then arm chair quarterbacks (I'm talking about critics all over the web, not necessarily here) who have never been in this situation (but have watched lots of 'cop shows') and proclaim they should have done this or that.

I applaud their patience in this case.

I also have zero issue with them arresting the citizen who fired shots needlessly at the truck's tires. That said, if he has no record, give him a 12 month deferred and move on.

[Urbanized]

The thinking on pursuits has changed over the years, both here and nationally. A number of years ago (more than 10, maybe even 20) there was a high-speed chase here in OKC where something like 20 OCPD cruisers got involved, and they caught audio of officers shouting over the radio in excitement (seriously, stuff like “yeeehaw”), and it got a ton of public scrutiny.

OCPD changed their policies to enact more control over just how many cars should get involved, and techniques designed to back off and de-escalate if possible, with intervention (ramming, pit maneuver) only utilized if they believed the public was in immediate danger. This has really become the thinking more and more over the years, in many/most large cities. Surging adrenaline can cause suspects and cops alike to ratchet up dangerous/risky behavior and the thinking is that backing off and merely containing/following reduces the chances for really terrible outcomes.

[Urbanized]

Here’s an article about additions to pursuit training following the pursuit-related death of Sgt Jonathan Dragus in 2005 in front of 50 Penn: https://www.policeone.com/police-pro...oing-it-right/

The article acknowledges that OCPD’s pursuit policy was already “more restrictive” than those of surrounding agencies, which was probably due to the previous policy changes I mentioned upthread.

[Urbanized]

And here is part of OCPD’s pursuit policy, apparently made public by News9 according to the URL: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griff...603/DOC002.PDF

[Paseofreak]

I've heard from family of the suspect that authorities knew he was not armed with a firearm and had proclaimed early on that he was pursueing suicide by cop. Good enough reason to hold back for me.

[gopokes88]

Can we talk about the danger of showing a live feed for 3 hours on Live television which resulted in a citizen trying to intervene and pulling a gun on the suspect to shoot his tire? I don't think we needed live coverage on this. That could have went south real quick.

Sure but you should also mention the benefits of having a live feed so people know to avoid the area as well

[d-usa]

With the state of network TV, was anything of value actually missed by showing the chase instead?

[Architect2010]

I've heard from family of the suspect that authorities knew he was not armed with a firearm and had proclaimed early on that he was pursueing suicide by cop. Good enough reason to hold back for me.

I can corroborate this as a family member. He did indeed tell his mother via phone that he wanted to "commit suicide by cop".

I am not sure if that's why they held back or not, but we are thankful no innocents were harmed by his actions. It could have very easily resulted in a different outcome.