University Town Center

[riflesforwatie]

I work across from LNC (including many evenings). Basketball traffic is slightly (and I mean slightly) worse than standard southbound Jenkins Ave. traffic during an average weekday rush hour. Traffic for basketball games is just not close to that experienced after football games.

[riflesforwatie]

^^^^^^
A recommendation for the MAPS model for large municipal capital projects.

I agree that it's better than having the arena authority (or whomever) come back after the fact and ask for money. But under either financing model I'd still want the arena proposal to make sense for the community...

[riflesforwatie]

Pete, I love the idea of expanding McCasland (if possible). But I don't understand why OU would still want to move to this new arena for ten years and then move back to campus. Why not just stay at LNC while the planning/design/fundraising on a potential McCasland project went forward?

[Pete]

Pete, I love the idea of expanding McCasland (if possible). But I don't understand why OU would still want to move to this new arena for ten years and then move back to campus. Why not just stay at LNC while the planning/design/fundraising on a potential McCasland project went forward?

To get a brand new facility, a better basketball environment, probably more revenue through suites and to see how attendance responds.

I really don't think there is any hope for an on-campus facility and although I've probably been to more hoops games at LNC than anyone on this site (including BoulderSooner!) it is a soulless place that might as well be on Mars as it is set in a sea of parking with no connection to the campus.

Why not have someone else pay for a shiny new home rather than pay for it yourself at LNC and still be in the middle of nowhere?

[BG918]

To get a brand new facility, a better basketball environment, probably more revenue through suites and to see how attendance responds.

I really don't think there is any hope for an on-campus facility and although I've probably been to more hoops games at LNC than anyone on this site (including BoulderSooner!) it is a soulless place that might as well be on Mars as it is set in a sea of parking with no connection to the campus.

Why not have someone else pay for a shiny new home rather than pay for it yourself at LNC and still be in the middle of nowhere?

The problem with that would be what does Norman do with the arena when the lease with OU runs out? OU still has LNC that it plans to keep using for gymnastics (maybe a couple thousand people per meet) and other events. And there are relatively new basketball practice facilities there that I imagine won't be duplicated somewhere else. Plus you have McCasland for wrestling and volleyball. It just seems like a big waste to have everything so scattered. OU doesn't need THREE arenas for its sports programs.

[riflesforwatie]

Those are good points, Pete. I now better understand what you meant.

BG - that's also a good question. SpiritBank Arena in Bixby may be a cautionary tale here: http://www.tulsaworld.com/businessho...43208b23c.html

(Article is from 2014, not sure if things have improved since then. Also, SpiritBank Arena is much smaller than this proposed UNP facility would be.)

[FighttheGoodFight]

To get a brand new facility, a better basketball environment, probably more revenue through suites and to see how attendance responds.

I really don't think there is any hope for an on-campus facility and although I've probably been to more hoops games at LNC than anyone on this site (including BoulderSooner!) it is a soulless place that might as well be on Mars as it is set in a sea of parking with no connection to the campus.

Why not have someone else pay for a shiny new home rather than pay for it yourself at LNC and still be in the middle of nowhere?

More students park at LNC to free shuttle to class than they do during basketball games. That says something.

[Swake]

Those are good points, Pete. I now better understand what you meant.

BG - that's also a good question. SpiritBank Arena in Bixby may be a cautionary tale here: http://www.tulsaworld.com/businessho...43208b23c.html

(Article is from 2014, not sure if things have improved since then. Also, SpiritBank Arena is much smaller than this proposed UNP facility would be.)

SpiritBank is still closed. The shopping center surrounding it is fine, but the arena is not used. I think it seats 5-6,000.

It was built too cheaply. The backing is just metal cladding and the sound went right through the wall to the expensive houses behind who were suing about the noise. I'm not sure that building is usable without millions in changes and Tulsa already has so many arenas that size and larger.

[BG918]

Case Study: Auburn University used to have an arena similar to LNC...ugly concrete bunker surrounded by parking:


They built a new 9600 seat on-campus in 2010 that integrates into a new student housing neighborhood:


The result was a basketball-only arena that fit in with the architectural vernacular of the AU campus and is easily accessible by students. Parking is shared with the other athletic facilities including the football stadium.

[Laramie]

So true, Tulsa & Oklahoma City areas are saturated with a number of facilities:

Tulsa indoor arenas & centers:

BOK Center - 17,839 seats
Mabee Center - 11,300-seats
Reynolds Center - 8,355-seats
Cox Convention Center formerly Tulsa Assembly Center - 7,200 seats
SpiritBank Event Center - 4,500 seats
Union High School Arena - 2,934 seats
Jenks High School Field House - 2,400 seats

Oklahoma City indoor arenas & centers:

Chesapeake Energy Arena - 18,203 seats
Cox Convention Center Arena - 13,846 seats
Lloyd Noble Center - 11,562 seats
Jim Norick Arena - 8,500 seats
McCasland Field House - 5,000 seats
Abe Lemons Arena (OCU) - 3,500. seats
Hamilton Field House (UCO) - 3,000 seats
Yukon, Moore, Del City, Midwest City all have indoor facilities with seating capacities in the 3,000 - 3,750 seat range.

Basketball seating capacities.

[Jersey Boss]

OU would be footing cost to retrofit Lloyd Nobel Center, that's the thing. Here, OU is just paying rent with the ability to leave in the future if it doesn't work out.

A bigger arena would make sense depending on the other variables that the NCAA looks at when determining where to host events. Hotel capacity in Norman isn't all that great and if people have to stay in OKC, why not just host the event at the Chesapeake.

An arena that approaches the same size of the Chesapeake puts it in direct competition with it and OKC has been "building it so that they come" for almost two decades now. That's a lot for UNP to compete with. There's a special niche size they have to find to make this work.

I am now thinking this might be a better idea than rebuilding the LNC. I also agree with Laramie that it needs to be between 12.5-15k. Norman has more hotel space than you realize. Keep in mind that Norman easily accomadates home football crowds that go to the largest stadium in the state. The Postal Training Center facility(open to the general public) that is operated by Marriott has over 900 rooms alone. If Norman can accommodate the crowds for home football, it can easily accommodate 15k basketball fans without even going to Moore, let alone OKC.

[shawnw]

I'm under the impression that OU Ice Hockey doesn't have their own facility and uses the Blazers rink by crossroads? Seems like this would be a good opportunity to bring the hockey back to Norman at least.

[Roger S]

I'm under the impression that OU Ice Hockey doesn't have their own facility and uses the Blazers rink by crossroads? Seems like this would be a good opportunity to bring the hockey back to Norman at least.

That is true. First home game of the season is tonight at 9 PM at the Blazers Center..... Being a club team I'm not sure they could afford to move to this new arena.... that and they only regularly draw about 100 people to their games.

[FighttheGoodFight]

That is true. First home game of the season is tonight at 9 PM at the Blazers Center..... Being a club team I'm not sure they could afford to move to this new arena.... that and they only regularly draw about 100 people to their games.

Correct. It isn't an "official" OU sport so I am guessing their funding is very low and getting 10k people to come to see them would be a feat.

[Roger S]

Correct. It isn't an "official" OU sport so I am guessing their funding is very low and getting 10k people to come to see them would be a feat.

Pretty sure all funding is done by fundraising. I don't think the school offers any financial help for the team.

[Laramie]

You might see an impressive team if they were to use a campus facility with its own ice plant. Ice hockey's future at OU could change with an official move to D-I ice hockey which would attract more recruits.

What would be the cost to totally retrofit Lloyd Noble Center with a rink and add an upper deck & a new roof

OR

OU could co-develop the University Town Center Arena project; it would probably be a lot less expensive to build a new arena from the ground up?


Something similar to Magness Arena (University of Denver) with twice the current seating: Magness Arena is used for basketball & ice hockey--Home of the DU men and women's basketball and hockey teams:

Features 6,026 theater-style seats for hockey, 7,200 for basketball and 8,000 for concerts
Three-time site of the NCAA North Central Region Gymnastics Championships and first round site of the 2007 Sun Belt Conference Women's Basketball Championship.

A 12,500 - 15,000 seat arena would attract some NCAA regional & national events; Norman would be an ideal location to accommodate crowds much like the WCWS in OKC.

[Roger S]

You might see an impressive team if they were to use a campus facility with its own ice plant. Ice hockey's future at OU could change with an official move to D-I ice hockey which would attract more recruits.

As much as I would love for it to happen... I just don't see it happening.

Team is usually pretty good regardless.... Lots of new faces on the team this year and they are off to a slow start, tonight doesn't get any easier, but they have consistently been a Top 10 team in the division they play in..... And amazingly they get a lot of kids to come down from Canada to play for them.

[Questor]

I really don't think there is any hope for an on-campus facility and although I've probably been to more hoops games at LNC than anyone on this site (including BoulderSooner!) it is a soulless place that might as well be on Mars as it is set in a sea of parking with no connection to the campus.

Yeah, same opinion of LNC... it's just sort of on its own, surrounded by a giant parking lot... you get inside and the place feels very dated, you get out to the seats and it just feels dark and dingy... and then for almost all the events they have there the number of people vs. the size of the place makes it feel depressingly desolate....

It'll be really interesting to see how the UNP arena is developed. If it ends up being a nice bright, modern, open place that is correctly right-sized I think it could be a really nice addition to the city of Norman. I am also very excited about the idea of having massive amounts of walkable restaurant and other entertainment space surrounding it, rather than parking.

[dankrutka]

What about surrounding the edges of that parking lot with mixed use student housing and putting up garages to replace lost parking? Maybe that's a pipe dream, but then it could bring life to the area and the arena facade would become far less important.

[jdross1982]

There are several issues with the arena itself. 1st it is a multi use building in every sense of the word which leads to terrible seating for basketball. 2. there is no suites and the concourse is terrible. 3. The facade is a major detractor which could be updated and corrected. Overall the minimum investment by the university is 60 million to overhaul the arena and that is a starting number. What you are speaking of (mixed use buildings developed around the arena) would require additional outside investment similar to the development the University is already pairing with up the road. The only way the UNP arena does not get built is if the TIF is not approved but I don't see that happening.

[PhiAlpha]

There are several issues with the arena itself. 1st it is a multi use building in every sense of the word which leads to terrible seating for basketball. 2. there is no suites and the concourse is terrible. 3. The facade is a major detractor which could be updated and corrected. Overall the minimum investment by the university is 60 million to overhaul the arena and that is a starting number. What you are speaking of (mixed use buildings developed around the arena) would require additional outside investment similar to the development the University is already pairing with up the road. The only way the UNP arena does not get built is if the TIF is not approved but I don't see that happening.

Yeah while the lack of entertainment options (or anything) near LNC is annoying and the building itself is ugly, my biggest complaint is the basketball game experience. It's just completely lackluster and as you mention, it has a lot to do with the arena design.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Something not related to the Event Center.

La Madeleine's sign is now up next to McAllisters.

[soonermike81]

Something not related to the Event Center.

La Madeleine's sign is now up next to McAllisters.

I swear I had seen it up several weeks back. But then drove back by and it was gone. Am I crazy?

[FighttheGoodFight]

I swear I had seen it up several weeks back. But then drove back by and it was gone. Am I crazy?

I was there on Sunday and it was up?

[soonermike81]

I was there on Sunday and it was up?

I believe you that it is currently up. I was just wondering if anyone else had seen it up several weeks back, then removed shortly after. Maybe I just saw a banner or something.