University Town Center

[Jersey Boss]

I see a real disconnect here. Many embraced the building of the Ford Center with the logic of "build it and they will come". Well we have a D1 program already in place and some are arguing for a venue that rivals TCU? I went to the Reynolds Center when OU played there a couple of years ago. I have been to better high school gyms.

Average attendance for men's BB games in 2016 was 10K. This is from 2016, a crappy season performance wise.
http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/defau...ance_final.pdf

[dankrutka]

Jersey Boss, first, that analogy doesn't work. OKC built an arena where a pro team could play when there was not one before. Also, there was no precedent for expectations since OKC had never had a pro team. On the other hand, OU has a ton of data on fan experience and it dramatically points to 12,000 seats being far, far too large. OSU built a huge arena that they can't even come close to filling up for 95% of their games. Remember when GIA was 6,000 seats and considered one of the best environments in college basketball. Well, OSU destroyed that by overexpanding their capacity. Also, I completely disagree with your assessment of TU's Reynold's Center, which is a fantastic arena that is far superior to Lloyd Noble. OU would be lucky to have something similar with some suites added in. Finally, if you think there were anywhere near 10,000 fans at any OU game all last season then I'll just tell you that there were not. OU inflates their numbers dramatically. Even when OU has been a top 5 team with the most exciting player in the nation with Blake Griffin and then Buddy Hield (pretty much best case scenarios), most games had empty seats.

[BG918]

College basketball landscape has been changing for a while. Esp here with the Thunder. I personally think 10,000 is too much. I would really like something like the Reynolds Center at Tulsa which is around 8,300. That was a great place to watch basketball when I went there my freshman year.

Something like the Reynolds Center would be perfect, maybe slightly larger with some suites. But not at UNP. Stick with LNC or move on-campus, those should be the only options.

[Rover]

I am sure if they play at UNP there will be plenty of busses, trams, etc free to the students to go to games. Plus, there will be restaurants, bars, and lots of life at the arena where now is just dark parking lots. Kids will want to hang out before and after games. Do you think kids want to walk to the LNC now? After dark?

Don't forget that there will be more attendees from OKC if located at UNP too...especially if it's in a lively entertainment district.

[dankrutka]

Something like the Reynolds Center would be perfect, maybe slightly larger with some suites. But not at UNP. Stick with LNC or move on-campus, those should be the only options.

Absolutely. I'd love to see a new arena on the east side of the football stadium, but none of this makes much sense with how much money they've poured into the practice facilities attached to Lloyd Noble. Honestly, I'd rather see OU add mixed use student housing and restaurants, bars (could a private developer do this?), and offices around Lloyd Noble and then just reclad the arena, which would be in the middle of it all. Parking garages could replace the parking and then just add bike paths to the area.

[Rover]

Could not in 20 years create the energy that can immediately exist at UNP.

[jn1780]

Well, OU has officially announced that their interested. So I take back my earlier comment.
http://newsok.com/university-of-okla...rticle/5564812

[Pete]

Even if OU does this, it could be like a 10-year lease which would allow them all types of options down the line.

[traxx]

If this area had been built as promised then I could see this being attractive, but what's there now is disappointing and may not age well.

Yes to this. I feel like the public was sold a false bill of goods on UNP. I remember when discussion on this place began and the pictures showed a cool, walkable, unique place with new to market businesses. What we got was more strip malls with nail salons and tire centers that you can find pretty much anywhere in the OKC greater metro.

I do agree with Pete, though, that the LNC is so disconnected from campus and people have to drive there anyway that this concept, if built to be like what we're shown in the proposal, could be really cool. You'll almost assuredly get more attendance from people in OKC as it would be easier to get to. Hwy 9 is such a mess getting in and out of on game days and you're almost in Noble by the time you get there. This would be an easier in and out for people in OKC, Moore, Del City, Midwest City et al.

[Pete]

One of the reasons it's so hard to get in and out of OU basketball games is that everyone comes in at exactly the same time and leaves at exactly the same time.

If there was something to do before and after, that would be greatly staggered.

[FighttheGoodFight]

One of the reasons it's so hard to get in and out of OU basketball games is that everyone comes in at exactly the same time and leaves at exactly the same time.

If there was something to do before and after, that would be greatly staggered.

Agreed. Football games really disperse people well and you end with with OK traffic even though 90,000 people just left an area.

[Plutonic Panda]

It appears they will help fund the planned interchange improvements at Tecumseh Rd.

A bit early but I'm guessing it will be built in multiple phases?

[Jersey Boss]

Jersey Boss, first, that analogy doesn't work. OKC built an arena where a pro team could play when there was not one before. Also, there was no precedent for expectations since OKC had never had a pro team. On the other hand, OU has a ton of data on fan experience and it dramatically points to 12,000 seats being far, far too large. OSU built a huge arena that they can't even come close to filling up for 95% of their games. Remember when GIA was 6,000 seats and considered one of the best environments in college basketball. Well, OSU destroyed that by overexpanding their capacity. Also, I completely disagree with your assessment of TU's Reynold's Center, which is a fantastic arena that is far superior to Lloyd Noble. OU would be lucky to have something similar with some suites added in. Finally, if you think there were anywhere near 10,000 fans at any OU game all last season then I'll just tell you that there were not. OU inflates their numbers dramatically. Even when OU has been a top 5 team with the most exciting player in the nation with Blake Griffin and then Buddy Hield (pretty much best case scenarios), most games had empty seats.

I agree, poor analogy. While there were not anywhere near 10k fans at any game last year, it was not due to OU padding the numbers. There is no doubt in my mind that the average game last year had 10k paid tickets. I go to 70-80% of the home BB games so I will agree with you on those in attendance. I do know several years ago that when buying football season tickets you could get better seats if you bought season BB tickets. Many bought BB tickets with no intention of going to the games or only going to a couple choice match ups. I have had friends go with me to games and the only tickets available were in upper South or North. I myself sit in the lower bowl and I know where the seats are where no one comes to. So the problem is in getting those who own the tickets to sell or give them away or lose the rights to them if they don't show for a certain % of games. I also agree that if the games are moved to UNP there will be an uptick of azzes in the seats. That uptick should be taken into consideration when and if this arena is being planned and built.

[Jersey Boss]

Agreed. Football games really disperse people well and you end with with OK traffic even though 90,000 people just left an area.

Also helps when OU is administering a beat down and the fans disperse throughout the second half.

[Laramie]

OU needs a new arena with a capacity of 12,500 - 15,000 seats.

If you're going to build an arena build something capable of hosting some regional & national events. Design it where 8,000 seats are readily available where 4,000 to 7,000 upper seats can be curtained or draped off when full capacity isn't needed.



We can put these campus arenas to use for other sports like Volleyball, Wrestling, Gymnastics and Women's Basketball.

McCasland Field House


Lloyd Noble Center


If all you are going to build is a smaller arena, you may as well keep Lloyd Noble Center and retrofit it to seat less than its current capacity.

[BG918]

Where else in the country is a university actively interested in moving their sports teams OFF campus? The trend for many years has been to either enhance stadiums or arenas already on-campus or build new on-campus facilities. Or like in Lincoln, NE partner with the city as part of a downtown arena project. This is none of that. College basketball is first and foremost for the STUDENTS and this location creates a major inconvenience for getting to/from games.

[jn1780]

OU needs a new arena with a capacity of 12,500 - 15,000 seats.

If you're going to build an arena build something capable of hosting some regional & national events. Design it where 8,000 seats are readily available where 4,000 to 7,000 upper seats can be curtained or draped off when full capacity isn't needed.



We can put these campus arenas to use for other sports like Volleyball, Wrestling, Gymnastics and Women's Basketball.

McCasland Field House


Lloyd Noble Center


If all you are going to build is a smaller arena, you may as well keep Lloyd Noble Center and retrofit it to seat less than its current capacity.

OU would be footing cost to retrofit Lloyd Nobel Center, that's the thing. Here, OU is just paying rent with the ability to leave in the future if it doesn't work out.

A bigger arena would make sense depending on the other variables that the NCAA looks at when determining where to host events. Hotel capacity in Norman isn't all that great and if people have to stay in OKC, why not just host the event at the Chesapeake.

An arena that approaches the same size of the Chesapeake puts it in direct competition with it and OKC has been "building it so that they come" for almost two decades now. That's a lot for UNP to compete with. There's a special niche size they have to find to make this work.

[Pete]

Where else in the country is a university actively interested in moving their sports teams OFF campus? The trend for many years has been to either enhance stadiums or arenas already on-campus or build new on-campus facilities. Or like in Lincoln, NE partner with the city as part of a downtown arena project. This is none of that. College basketball is first and foremost for the STUDENTS and this location creates a major inconvenience for getting to/from games.

Actually, there are several colleges with arenas off-campus, including two big programs: Louisville and Kentucky.


This new arena seems like an interesting idea. I'd like to see a 10-year lease while OU evaluates renovating and expanding McCasland similar to what OSU did.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
I like that idea. Of course, what to do with the new arena if OU abandons it 10 years down the road..?

[bige4ou]

Actually, there are several colleges with arenas off-campus, including two big programs: Louisville and Kentucky.


This new arena seems like an interesting idea. I'd like to see a 10-year lease while OU evaluates renovating and expanding McCasland similar to what OSU did.

As good of an idea as that is. It would never ever happen. There is no parking and no options to add such. As for a person that works for one of the OU teams that would use this arena I am very excited to see something actually in the works here. Students don't come to the game anyways so what does it matter moving off campus? I would argue that it might increase students coming to games because of the bar/restaurant options so close before and after games. I believe it will increase attendance a little as well since it will be much easier to access with other things to experience before and after.

[BG918]

As good of an idea as that is. It would never ever happen. There is no parking and no options to add such. As for a person that works for one of the OU teams that would use this arena I am very excited to see something actually in the works here. Students don't come to the game anyways so what does it matter moving off campus? I would argue that it might increase students coming to games because of the bar/restaurant options so close before and after games. I believe it will increase attendance a little as well since it will be much easier to access with other things to experience before and after.

That's the biggest problem with this proposal. It's basically saying a big F U to the students, we don't care about you all we want is families who will drive to the games from Moore, OKC and Edmond. That's probably the core demographic and yes that would make it easier for those people. Which is fine if this is a professional team but these are college sports played by student-athletes.

And comparing this to Louisville and Kentucky is apples and oranges. First of all those are blue blood basketball programs and their arenas are in their respective downtown cores and shared by the city because they consistently attract 15-20K. What other program in the past 10 years has purposely built a new athletics facility off-campus??

If "on-campus" arena isn't an option then a move to near downtown Norman that would still be within walking distance of campus and Campus Corner would be preferable. Redevelop the municipal complex and library into an arena/conference center, add a hotel and spur new restaurant/entertainment development on the west side of downtown Norman which hasn't seen the same renewal as the east side. You would then have direct access to the future commuter rail line and it's all on land the city already owns.

[Pete]

I somewhat agree about the students but they all pretty much have to drive anyway.

I went to every single home game as a student and always drove or rode with someone who did.

[Roger S]

Unfortunately OU has one of the worst student sections for basketball in the country. So the "All Students Matter" argument doesn't really carry much weight here in my opinion.

They already don't come to the games so moving the stadium further away isn't going to exacerbate that issue..... On the other hand. Any time I've been to Torchy's there are plenty of students there.... Maybe more than I've ever seen at a ball game (Yes, that is sarcasm)..... So if they will drive to Torchy's. Maybe they'll show up for a game and go to Torchy's before or after the game.

[riflesforwatie]

Actually, there are several colleges with arenas off-campus, including two big programs: Louisville and Kentucky.


This new arena seems like an interesting idea. I'd like to see a 10-year lease while OU evaluates renovating and expanding McCasland similar to what OSU did.

http://deadspin.com/louisvilles-aren...ter-1797126730

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
A recommendation for the MAPS model for large municipal capital projects.