601 W. Main

[Ross MacLochness]

To counter-argue, the Box Building is the one that seems out of context to me. It's set back farther from the sidewalk than other nearby buildings, and is one of a few of one-story buildings in the immediate area.

I agree, but I still think parking could be done more tastefully..

[Pete]

Don't know why two articles in the Oklahoman on this subject only present the arguments against this project, while the application itself included lots of context and research in support of the scale; and in fact this seems to fit the Dowtown Development Framework.

[Ross MacLochness]

They presented all that stuff and more at the meeting, but to me it seemed like they were grasping at straws when it came to incorporating design elements from the district. For example, they were comparing precast concrete to lime stone, compared the giant metal fins on the outside of the garage to the small metal details on city hall and the civic center, and said that the fins gave vertical delineation instead of horizontal lines when, to me, the bend in the fins creates more of a horizontal look. That being said, the garage does technically seem to conform to code... but that doesn't mean it's what's best for that spot. Yes, according to the books, it ads "density" by being another building in the area, but from the perspective of use, it actually decreases density by pushing things that people do farther away from each other. It technically conforms to scale in terms of number of floors and the building that was here before would have been the same size. But there is a huuge difference between the feel of a building this size that is for people, with windows, and one that is for cars and made of precast concrete. I understand that this garage would serve the police thus allowing other lots closer to 21c to be developed, but to me, considering that this property fronts both the civic center complex (aka the civic heart of the city) and main street, this is just a boneheded place to put a massive garage; wasted potential.

Makes me a little sad that David Box is Braum's attorney. Usually I'm in support of his clients (at least the two or three times I've seen him at DDRC) but I guess he's no different than most people who need to feed their mouths, he's just a (talented) dude for hire.

[Pete]

^

Pretty much all those same design arguments were made for the City's Main Street Garage. That it pulled from City Hall's art deco finishes, etc.

I don't think this is about the design elements but just about people not wanting a parking garage at this spot. But very hard to make that argument when the City did almost the exact same thing on a much larger scale just to the east.

[riflesforwatie]

http://newsok.com/neighbors-opposed-...rticle/5564616

Oh, the irony...

Attorneys David and Dennis Box continue to lead the campaign against this project. They own the property immediately to the east.

At the same time, David was sitting in the community meeting about the Classen Circle Braum's basically telling people his client is going to do what they want. And they make their living off helping private clients get their projects passed by the various City committees.

Came here to post exactly this. I nearly LOL'ed after reading both of Steve's stories in this morning's paper and seeing the name Box in these contexts.

[baralheia]

Speaking of Steve's articles (apologies if this one has already been posted): http://newsok.com/okc-central-parkin...rticle/5564619

Steve is arguing for the original idea of building a garage where the old municipal courts building currently stands; the City wants to turn it into a secured surface parking lot instead. Maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture here, but I have to agree with Steve in this instance - that site would be ideal for this project instead of the current proposed location, and serve multiple uses that the proposed garage may have a more difficult time doing.

[Pete]

DDRC unanimously rejected this project.

Seems like it may be dead. The land owners can appeal but not likely such a strong ruling would be overturned.

Could also go to court and claim the decision was unfair, as all guidelines allow for this use and height.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-pane...rticle/5565037

[Ross MacLochness]

Wow... Pretty surprising result.

[Pete]

This decision raises several issues.

The committee is supposed to be objective and try to follow overarching guidelines.

But what clearly came into play here were the sentiments and opinions of lots of different people who spoke against it. In the broader context, why should that matter?

Conversely, these same people couldn't / wouldn't speak out about the ridiculous parking garages proposed by Hines / Devon and other projects backed by the powerful.

Isn't that why we have independent committees in the first place? Certainly, the public has some input but usually their comments are brushed off. But because many of those opposing here are powerful themselves, this development is viewed differently?

I'm not a big fan of this project but if the guidelines allow for it, then either change those guidelines to reflect the greater good or apply them fairly.

[Anonymous.]

Shades of the Rand Elliot influence in Auto Alley.

[Pete]

Plans revised for proposed downtown parking structure


After having its initial proposal rejected by the Downtown Design Review Committee, the owners of a surface parking lot near the Civic Center have submitted revised plans.

The new application shows the height of the structure reduced from 73 feet to 56 feet 8 inches. Height became a point of contention during the review process as a neighboring property owner and other local urban design advocates had argued the original proposal was out of proportion with its surroundings.

In addition, the revised plans show completely new facades facing both Main Street and Colcord, the latter of which would face the recently re-worked Centennial Park next to the Civic Center. The new brick and metal elevations are in contrast to the previously proposed aluminum fins.

Opponents of the project have argued that a large parking garage is not an appropriate use for fronting a city park, although the City itself built a much taller and larger structure just to the east on Main, which faces the newly renovated park to the east of City Hall.

The ADG design also shows parking being scaled back from from 262 spaces to 207 and total square footage down from the original 102,800 to 83,200. Office and retail space is still shown at ground level on both the north and south sides, with 4 levels of parking above.

TBL Parking LLC – which is associated with the Oklahoma City Police Association -- had appealed the decision of the design review committee to the Board of Adjustment which is still set to be reviewed on November 2nd.

[OKC_on_mines]

The first concept was unique with aluminum fins. This is just flat out ugly. I try and find the positive in all projects around my city; eager to show support for growth and business. But dude.....this new concept is just butt ugly. It looks like a maze surrounded by puke orange brick. Why are they so determined to put a garage here. West Village is already adding plenty of parking for the residential coming online to this area. I've seen other folks post in this thread (and other threads) that some of OUr garages nearby aren't even 100% capacity. Wth are we doing here?

I could honestly ignore how ugly it is if we needed a garage. The retail and office space there would make me happy. But main street arcade still isn't even filled up yet. I just don't get it dude....

[KayneMo]

I quite like it, the brick and cast stone especially.

[Pete]

I'm sure the idea was to better blend in with the surrounding buildings with a touch of Art Deco due to the Civic Center.

[Ross MacLochness]

Looks better to me but still... WHYYYYYY?? The issue wasn't so much the design as it was the function. It's just not a good place for another huge parking garage...

[David]

I greatly prefer this design, it is much better looking to my eyes.

[shawnw]

Looks better, blends in better. Higher use than a surface lot. Yes I would like to see something better along main street, but it's hard to argue against this considering the city garage.

[Pete]

Also, on that small lot I'm not sure what else they could do, especially since everyone is on their case about being less than 5 stories tall.

[Bullbear]

I like it better for sure.. the fins may have been more unique but they certainly wont blend in at all. I'd rather a Parking garage just sort of blend than stand out.

[Plutonic Panda]

I see what’s gojng on here. For some reason, it completely went over me that this will front the park. I don’t want a huge police presence towering over the park nor is a parking garage appropriate anyways. This should be mixed use here with housing and office.

The only thing I disagree with from some currently opposing this is the out of character issue. I think as long as the street level design works, it shouldn’t matter how tall a building is as long as it meets engineering standards.

Though, I do support another garage in this area so there can be enough parking to make a case for car free housing and office developments. If enough parking is around, that can make it attractive for developers to build new housing and office or hotels with no dedicated parking because there will be some nearby. That can ultimately also pave way for certain residents to not own a car at all. That will pave the way for it to become more common in OKC.

Here is an article from NewsOk that the people who are fighting this are offering to trade their lot for no money just to save the park from a money hungry police force: http://m.newsok.com/article/5571738

[Ross MacLochness]

For once I agree, Plupan.

[Pete]

Police Association plans to proceed with downtown garage plans

After several years of negotiating with the city and neighbors and after reducing the size of a proposed downtown parking garage, the Oklahoma City Police Association is proceeding with plans as submitted.

In an exclusive interview with OKCTalk, Ed Hill – president of the association – said his organization is moving forward with its plans and hopes revisions will be approved on November 16th by the Downtown Design Review Committee.

The association's previous application was rejected when a group led by attorneys David and Dennis Box claimed both the height and use were inconsistent with development guidelines.

In response to the concerns, the garage was reduced in height to the minimum mandated by downtown guidelines and resubmitted. Additionally, the previous decision of the committee has been appealed to the Board of Adjustment and will be heard in January.

Earlier this week, David Box was quoted by the Oklahoman as having submitted an offer to swap a large lot to the south for the property the association plans to develop, stating the desire to save Centennial Park from being bordered by a parking garage.

However, Hill told OKCTalk this is not a new idea as it has been discussed by the parties over the last several years and it has never interested the the police association as it's larger than their current needs and they have no desire to become developers or landlords. The police association is not planning to respond to the offer by Box.

Just 3 years ago, the City of Oklahoma City itself constructed a massive 9-story, 830 space parking garage directly south of the recently renovated park to the east of City Hall. Not long thereafter, the Downtown Design Review Committee approved 2 huge parking garages as part of the BOK Park Plaza project directly south of the city garage and to the east of another municipally owned garage at Sheridan and Walker.

The Oklahoma City Police Association is a nonprofit organization funded by police employees. It provides insurance and other benefits to more than 1,200 of its members, which amounts to more than 95% of all police employees in OKC.

The city has never provided parking for police employees and thus over the last several decades the association has purchased five surface parking lots, including 601 W. Main, the site of the controversial development proposal. Most police employees drive their own cars to work then use city-owned vehicles for official police matters.

In addition to using the lots for police employees during business days, they are also used by various arts agencies for activities at the Civic Center, often in exchange for performance tickets which are then shared with police employees.

The association-owned lot directly south of the the newly renovated Main Street Arcade is currently leased to the owners of that property for the use of their tenants.

As the City prepares to demolish the old police and municipal courts building, the parking situation near the new Police Headquarters and separate Municipal Courts Building the parking in the area has already become more strained as both were recently constructed on former surface lots.

Hill said the association approached the city about developing structured parking on its lot south of the new police building but was met with resistance from city planners who emphasized the desire to develop the Main Street Corridor – the stretch of Main Street connecting the Central Business District to the 21c Museum Hotel and massive West Village project – into a mix of housing and commercial space.

The association then discussed the idea of developing multi-level parking on the surface lot to be created by the demolition of the old police building but that was also rejected, according to Hill.

The last three years of meetings and proposals have taken place outside formal city meetings and thus there has not been public record of the many efforts of all parties involved to find a mutually-agreeable solution.

Now, the police association believes the proposed garage is the best alternative as it would free up their Main Street lots for future development in the manner desired by the city, as well as provide commercial space along both Main and Colcord. The association has experienced ample interest by developers over the last several years and that interest has only accelerated due to the 21c Hotel and other significant developments at the west end of downtown.

The association believes its plans meet all the downtown development framework and guidelines and is committed to securing a long-term parking solution for police employees.

[Plutonic Panda]

The height shouldn’t be an issue. Doesn’t matter if it’s 100 storeys. It should be street interaction at ground level but we don’t need a parking garage fronting a park. A bigger plot of land has been refused. Very frustrating!

[Pete]

The height shouldn’t be an issue. Doesn’t matter if it’s 100 storeys. It should be street interaction at ground level but we don’t need a parking garage fronting a park. A bigger plot of land has been refused. Very frustrating!

This property doesn't technically front the park... It faces the drive in front of the Civic Center.

Like it or not, there does not seem to be any real basis for denying this project and if it happens again on Thursday, I wouldn't be surprised to see a successful appeal.

[sooner88]

Why don't they take half of the lot south of them? There is so much parking right by the Civic Center even for a sold out event, an office building with a nice restaurant on the bottom would be such a better use.