Guardian: Oklahoma isn't working.

[Bellaboo]

I know people that work there and they love it. And QT has long been rated as one of the best employers in the nation. If they lied about pay on the website, would that really be the case?

Anyway, this isn't really about QT, this is about our funding of schools and the state in general. The legislature and governor have failed us completely.

But they are more than likely working 60 hours a week to make the 42K.

Agree with total failure of government.

[Bunty]

BG918 - How is Oklahoma *not* a failed state, given the massive education cuts (highest percentage of any state in the nation, I believe), failure to make a budget (and resorting to illegal tactics (OK Supreme Court saw through them) to try to come up with one), cutting all kinds of social services, infrastructure in poor condition, , massive prison population (in unsafe and out-of-date prisons), most percentage of African-American men in prison in the nation (I believe that was the stat I read), most percentage of women imprisoned, etc.?

Oklahoma is not all that bad of a state as long as you don't need state help from welfare, or are a state employee, such as a teacher. Poor people who aren't making it should move to a better state where people have a warmer heart for the needy, since so many conservative Oklahoma legislators don't support more welfare spending. Those legislators seem to feel resuming cutting income taxes will help the state more than anything else. To quote my state senator, Tom Dugger: "We need to ensure Oklahoma's economy has stabilized before additional revenue reductions are enacted." So, sooner or later, having more money in our pockets to spend after tax cuts may noticeably help the economy. Anyway, he won't face reelection until 2020.

[Bunty]

Yeah, Tulsa and especially OKC are doing well in spite of the rest of the state totally crumbling. Problem is, the rest of the state will start to bring the cities down with it. It's already holding them back as it is.

Bills enacted from the state capitol that ban cities from governing themselves in certain ways don't help.

[dcsooner]

Whatever points this guy is trying to make, however valid at a micro or macro level, seem to me to be underpinned by an intense hatred for Oklahoma in general - note the title of the other book to his credit, and apparently he was raised here?

Yeah, we get it, you hate Oklahoma, and yeah, we get it, we've got problems. We know that. Any solutions?

Damn, most people who criticize Oklahoma DON'T HATE Oklahoma. What an asinine statement to obscure the truth. The State is poorly run, yes by Republicans!. If people in the State do not take responsibility for holding those elected to create policy that enhances or improves the lives of the citizenry. The State is falling further behind in so many areas. Give the damn democrates, or independent or whatever a shot at governing, but being red for red sake is just stupid. Cutting all these taxes HAS NOT created demand or overwhelming high paying jobs, only near record state budget deficits. Alot of the people who complain are native born, transplanted Oklahomans who care about their home State and are saddened that it has fallen so far.

[bchris02]

When you get down to it, the problem in this state is that most lawmakers pander to the most extreme right-wing voters and the policies advocated by the far-right simply aren't working. 23rd and Lincoln is almost a competition in terms of who can out right-wing the others. People know it isn't working otherwise the legislature wouldn't be so unpopular. However, most voters in Oklahoma are evangelical Christians and they will always vote for the candidate that "out-Jesuses" the others and comes down hardest against abortion and LGBT rights. The feel that their religion demands they vote for these people who promote "Christian values" even if its against their own interests.

Oklahoma will struggle until that changes.

[SoonerDave]

Damn, most people who criticize Oklahoma DON'T HATE Oklahoma. What an asinine statement to obscure the truth.

It's a good thing I didn't even come close to saying it, then. I was *specifically* referring to the *one* individual who wrote *that* hit piece on Oklahoma. His own perspective came through halfway through the article and were evidenced in the title of his other hit piece. And I'm making the point that a column so full of vitriol *obscures* the very points the author is trying to make.

I have lived in Oklahoma nearly all my life, and love it here. And I'll be the first to tell you we've got problems, and that our current slate of elected leaders has failed us. There's no question about it. But, for me, the tenor of that article was unmistakable. And I don't back off what I said in the slightest. He offered not one single solution. Not one.

I am 100% behind bringing our wellhead tax to the regional average. I am 100% behind looking into excessive or inappropriate incentives to corporations - and I say that as a Reagan-era supply sider!!! And this is where our legislature has abjectly failed. That's my $0.02 in this - I know we've got problems, but I'm willing to toss out ideas to remedy them, rather than refuse to strike a match and then curse the darkness.

[chuck5815]

Yeah, Tulsa and especially OKC are doing well in spite of the rest of the state totally crumbling. Problem is, the rest of the state will start to bring the cities down with it. It's already holding them back as it is.

Is there really any evidence that this is true? If anything, weakness and lack of opportunity in the rural areas will cause people to migrate to the cities. I would argue that we're already seeing this phenomenon in places like Yukon and Mustang, which have seen fairly explosive growth.

And I don't necessarily know if Oklahoma is unique in this regard. When you look around the country, most of the growth and power has been shifting towards metro areas for the last 20-30 years.

[Jersey Boss]

It is the job of the elected leaders to do just that, lead. They are elected and paid to make this a better state for the citizens that live here. It is not the job of reporters to lead. Reporters have no obligation to solve problems, but investigative reporters have a duty and obligation to report on failures and successes. It is the job of a reporter to expose how much money is wasted on defending lawsuits that are the result of screwball legislation, it is the job of the elected officials to not pass these crazy laws that are unconstitutional.

[Swake]

It is the job of the elected leaders to do just that, lead. They are elected and paid to make this a better state for the citizens that live here. It is not the job of reporters to lead. Reporters have no obligation to solve problems, but investigative reporters have a duty and obligation to report on failures and successes. It is the job of a reporter to expose how much money is wasted on defending lawsuits that are the result of screwball legislation, it is the job of the elected officials to not pass these crazy laws that are unconstitutional.

Especially a reporter for British newspaper.

[DoctorTaco]

I've been fantasizing about taking out a billboard near the airport so everyone entering town can see it. It would say "Relocate to Oklahoma, where your children have no guarantee of a quality education." or "Relocate to Oklahoma, where the teachers we have left are only the ones who lack the ability and/or initiative to leave." Or something similar.

Feel like that is what it will take to get the buy-in of the Chamber powers that be.

[Canoe]

I know people that work there and they love it. And QT has long been rated as one of the best employers in the nation. If they lied about pay on the website, would that really be the case?

Anyway, this isn't really about QT, this is about our funding of schools and the state in general. The legislature and governor have failed us completely.

I wish teacher's unions weren't seen as Democrat organizations in the state. It creates an us vs them situation and hurts the children's welfare.

[Pete]

Red states are increasingly suspicious of education, especially higher education.

And it shows in how those states fund their educational systems. Of course, Oklahoma is just about the worst of the worst in that regard.

[traxx]

I'm with Dave, here. We have problems, but this pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the article and its author:

Russell Cobb...is at work on a book provisionally titled You Dumb Okie: Race, Class, and Lies in Flyover Country

[Zuplar]

Some context is nice. I haven't found what the book is about, but by his own accounts, he is a dumb Okie.

https://twitter.com/scissortail74?re...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Canoe]

However, most voters in Oklahoma are evangelical Christians and they will always vote for the candidate that "out-Jesuses" the others and comes down hardest against abortion and LGBT rights. The feel that their religion demands they vote for these people who promote "Christian values" even if its against their own interests.

Oklahoma will struggle until that changes.

Bchris, maybe you can not be such a Christfobe? I don't see how it helps. It drives the people you need to improve the situation away. Grow up and get past your
prejudices if you want to help the situation

[d-usa]

A true fact is that a significant portion of voters will vote for the anti-abortion candidate above all else.

[Canoe]

A true fact is that a significant portion of voters will vote for the anti-abortion candidate above all else.

Would you vote for someone who you believed would murder children?

What the state needs is someone anti abortion (electable) and pro education. Driving a wedge into the dominant culture over abortion kills the chances of helping the students and teachers in our public schools. If you want change in Oklahoma you need the pro-life vote.

[d-usa]

I think it's a safe wager the damage this state does to living children affects a much greater number than abortion ever would. It's more important that the child is born to people, who then turn around and refuse to find their healthcare, education, dietary needs, psychological and social wellbeing, and any other number of issues. As the policy level we are a state that wants to force women to carry each pregnancy to term, and then deny them any help once the child is on the other side of her labia.

We would save many more lives, and prevent more abortions, if we actually provided a functional safety net for people. Make it easier to adopt, including for gay adoptive parents, to provide homes for children whose parents can't provide for them. Make pregnant women feel like they have options and support. And that's where we fal short, and we keep on electing pro-birth anti-poor-children politicians to put us further in the hole.

Education is just one of those areas that indirectly affects our children. The cut to 4-day weeks affects more than just education, it increases hunger, it makes it harder for parents to work, it increases poverty. We need to care about Oklahomans once they are born as much as we care about them when unborn.

[bchris02]

Bchris, maybe you can not be such a Christfobe? I don't see how it helps. It drives the people you need to improve the situation away. Grow up and get past your
prejudices if you want to help the situation

I'm sorry but it's the truth and there is nothing "Christophobic" about what I said. Most Oklahomans vote for the anti-abortion and anti-gay candidate above all else. It's their sincere conviction that their eternal salvation is at stake if they do not. It's a genius strategy for Republicans because its guaranteed re-election no matter what they do as their base is bound by their faith to vote for them. I do wish more people would realize that they are being taken advantage of and that if they really wanted to end abortion, hoping that Republicans stay in power long enough to stack the court system is a horrible way to go about doing it.

I think it's a safe wager the damage this state does to living children affects a much greater number than abortion ever would. It's more important that the child is born to people, who then turn around and refuse to find their healthcare, education, dietary needs, psychological and social wellbeing, and any other number of issues. As the policy level we are a state that wants to force women to carry each pregnancy to term, and then deny them any help once the child is on the other side of her labia.

I agree with this. Abortion isn't really a state issue anyways being that any attempt to ban it will be struck down as unconstitutional. State politicians focusing on it is simply a distraction. It's a way to score points in those "Values Voter Guides" passed out in Baptist churches around election season.

[dankrutka]

"Relocate to Oklahoma, where the teachers we have left are only the ones who lack the ability and/or initiative to leave."

Yeah, I'd leave that one out. I know some incredible educators who have stayed in the state with the means and opportunities to leave. Maybe don't push that group out.

[d-usa]

There are plenty of teachers who would never betray their students the way the state betrayed the teachers. They are doing what they can, often spending their meager paycheck on these kids. They are here because they want to be here, not because they can't leave.

Edit: I try to phrase my post generally and try not to make it sound like I'm attacking specific people. So if I come across that way I apologize.

[LocoAko]

Would you vote for someone who you believed would murder children?

What the state needs is someone anti abortion (electable) and pro education. Driving a wedge into the dominant culture over abortion kills the chances of helping the students and teachers in our public schools. If you want change in Oklahoma you need the pro-life vote.

Without getting into abortion politics, we have those running -- Scott Inman for starters.

[OKCRT]

There are a few elite rich folks running this state and they are doing just fine. When they are running the show and they are doing just fine why change?

[mugofbeer]

There are certainly things wrong in OK but this guy's essay is so overswtated he loses credibility. Yes, teacher pay is atrocious and blame lies with the legislature. The media in OK needs to undertake a coordinated effort to talk to each representative who voted against the recent attempt to raise pay, ask pointed questions and name names. The hillbillies who are voting down pay increases have simply got to be replaced. As far as many of the other points he raises, its no different than anywhere else. Indian tribes gave money in OK, corporations give money other places. Unfortunately, OK doesnt have a huge contingent of corporate offices or billionaires who give in this way. The schools in CO put out a list of suppplies they need and parents fill them. its normal and understood.

[Mott]

Do we hate Oklahoma when the sooner football team has a losing season and the head coach is criticized? Everyone wants our football teams in the top ten, so pointing out that the schools are in the bottom ten does not mean someone hates Oklahoma, we as a state, are letting ourselves down, and we could do a lot better.