The Pulse (formerly downtown Holiday Inn)

[ljbab728]

I went to a seminar in the late 80s. Definitely not a cult. Very Southern Baptisty.

Well, some people might think it's the same thing.

[HangryHippo]

I went to a seminar in the late 80s. Definitely not a cult. Very Southern Baptisty.

One and the same.

[Pete]

This organization just sold an old hotel they had been occupying in Dallas to a developer.

Would love it if they would do the same with this property in OKC:

Deal to redevelop Dallas? historic Ambassador Hotel moves ahead | Dallas Morning News

[Urbanized]

Is capitalism a basic life principle? If so, there is hope.

[Martin]

that holiday inn is far more architecturally significant than the building it replaced. : ) -M

[HOT ROD]

sickening. what were our forefathers thinking?

[UnFrSaKn]

Don't forget about the fire and the fact that it sat just like this for something like a decade. One of the last photos.

[Urbanized]

It always reminds me of the old Wichita City Hall (still standing and now a museum):

[UnFrSaKn]

When I visited Wichita a while back, I knew nothing about its downtown. I stumbled on that building and all I could think of was our old courthouse. Old Town blows Bricktown away as far as architecture. If you plopped the historic district of Guthrie into Bricktown, that would give you an idea.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/willia...7633446289249/

[CS_Mike]

My apologies for resurrecting such an old thread, but it might be time to revisit this. With development in this area finally starting to pick up, I became curious about the current status of this building.

If I recall correctly, the previous discussion indicated little likelihood of this building being redeveloped anytime soon due to the ownership and the building's use for a religious-based nonprofit. However, I just noticed that the tenant that is indicated on Google Maps (In The Gap) has apparently moved their location to NW 23rd Street as of just last week (based on recent posts on their Facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/inthegap.ok/). In the Gap is affiliated with Character First Education (per the history on their website, https://inthegap.org/about/history/), which appears to be the organization that was referenced in the original post. Furthermore, looking at the Character First website (http://www.characterfirsteducation.com), I saw that their parent company was called Strata Leadership, and the website indicates that Strata's HQ is located in OKC at 11600 Broadway Ext., Ste 220.

If neither Strata HQ nor In The Gap are located within the old Holiday Inn building, is this building vacant now? Could this finally be the right time for someone to approach the owner about purchasing this real estate? Does anyone know anything more about the mysterious ownership?

[PhiAlpha]

My apologies for resurrecting such an old thread, but it might be time to revisit this. With development in this area finally starting to pick up, I became curious about the current status of this building.

If I recall correctly, the previous discussion indicated little likelihood of this building being redeveloped anytime soon due to the ownership and the building's use for a religious-based nonprofit. However, I just noticed that the tenant that is indicated on Google Maps (In The Gap) has apparently moved their location to NW 23rd Street as of just last week (based on recent posts on their Facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/inthegap.ok/). In the Gap is affiliated with Character First Education (per the history on their website, https://inthegap.org/about/history/), which appears to be the organization that was referenced in the original post. Furthermore, looking at the Character First website (http://www.characterfirsteducation.com), I saw that their parent company was called Strata Leadership, and the website indicates that Strata's HQ is located in OKC at 11600 Broadway Ext., Ste 220.

If neither Strata HQ nor In The Gap are located within the old Holiday Inn building, is this building vacant now? Could this finally be the right time for someone to approach the owner about purchasing this real estate? Does anyone know anything more about the mysterious ownership?

Back a few months ago I had an Uber driver that was a resident and staff member at the Institute. He and his family had just moved out to the NW side of town because the organization was relocating. At the time he said that their were a few groups looking to purchase the building and that it would be converted back into a hotel. He didn't know the flag or when the deal would close but said it was only a matter of time. Haven't heard anything sense though.

[PhiAlpha]

When I visited Wichita a while back, I knew nothing about its downtown. I stumbled on that building and all I could think of was our old courthouse. Old Town blows Bricktown away as far as architecture. If you plopped the historic district of Guthrie into Bricktown, that would give you an idea.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/willia...7633446289249/

I think comparing Old Town to downtown Guthrie architecturally is a major stretch, but it is a really cool district.

[Pete]

I've had my eye on this for a few months as it has been slowly clearing out.

Just this past weekend, there were only a few cars outside, where even when it had been really slow just a month ago there were still 10-20 or so. Plus trailers that were in the back are now gone.

I'm very sure it is under contract to a hotel operator and expect the sale to close soon.

As late as the mid-80's it had been reopened as a renovated Holiday Inn and was pretty decent. But it didn't last long.

Seems like it would be very straightforward to convert back to a modern hotel and be the only rooms in west downtown (unless you count 21c).

[edcrunk]

One and the same.

Not at all.

[brianinok]

http://newsok.com/former-downtown-ho...rticle/5561880

Looks like movement toward redevelopment.

[Pete]

That article says they closed at the end of last year but there are still people in there, just not many.

[Doug Loudenback]

Who would have thought that this old thread was still lurking around in the caverns of OKCTalk cyberspace! Amazing. Not to be picky, but, Steve's article in the Oklahoman today says that the former holiday inn building was the site of our old county courthouse, and that may have been said in this thread, as well. That's kinda true and kinda not. The old courthouse was located midway between grand and main and actually had no frontage on main street. No big deal. It certainly would be great to see the existing property restored to its original purpose.

[riflesforwatie]

That article says they closed at the end of last year but there are still people in there, just not many.

I was wondering about that. I walk by all the time and there are always lights on in some of the rooms, so I was surprised to read that it was totally closed.

[Pete]

It's not totally closed.

I've been going by there for some time to check on the place and there have always been people in there and some cars in the front and back.

[warreng88]

It looks like the Alliance agreement with Omni for the Convention Hotel might affect the redevelopment of this into a hotel:

"The 10-story institute at 520 W Main closed late last year and a representative confirmed Monday discussions are ongoing with potential buyers.

At least one of those buyers recently approached The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City with a pitch to spend $26.6 million converting the building into a 197-room Delta by Marriott with a restaurant, meeting and ballroom space.

That discussion ended, however, when alliance President Cathy O'Connor advised the group the project would not qualify for tax increment financing."

Do you think this is doable without public financing assistance? Not sure what kind of shape it is in.

[Pete]

^

I believe the Omni thing doesn't kick in until they actually start or finish. But at any rate, it's not all official yet anyway.

I'm sure Cathy just told them they don't want to subsidize hotels, which she has pretty much told everyone else who has asked for that purpose, except First National.

That's the only 'qualifying' there is. There are almost no guidelines and who gets TIF and it comes completely down to Cathy recommending it upstream (with 100% approval rate) or not.

The only exception I can think of is the Wheeler District where after getting almost no help from the Alliance over a period of several years, the developers basically went around her and straight to City Council.

[Urbanized]

No subsidy for hotels - other than, obviously, the Omni and First National - is excellent policy for he City at this point. The private sector is delivering downtown hotels - without incentive - at such a pace that there is industry concern that compression will start causing properties elsewhere in the city to fail. That helps nobody. Although this property is tempting due to its uniqueness - it already has the bones of a hotel - and the desirability of adaptive reuse for the building due to location, I understand the exclusion, even here.

Considering the fact that it is already configured and would most likely just need mechanicals, fixtures and new surfaces/decor, the economics surely work even without incentive. In which case, why would we want to do it?

[Pete]

^

The phrase "did not qualify" is incorrect. There is nothing in the qualification guidelines that stop hotels from getting TIF or other incentives, it's merely Cathy O'Connor's decision they they should not get them... Broadly applied to hotels but who knows what else she deems unworthy.

Keep in mind when someone makes such an inquiry and gets rejected, there is no public record kept. It's an informal conversation that stops at Cathy's desk unless she decides it should go forward. We have no way of knowing which projects are met with this sort of rejection; we also don't know which ones get rejected and still get built.

Hugely important information because the *entire* basis of TIF is the 'but for' argument. That but for these incentives these projects would not get built. But there is no way to determine if this is remotely true because of the process OKC employs. I know all this from direct conversations with Cathy O'Connor and Brent Bryant.

Since TIF is based on proactively taking and redirecting tax dollars, the burden of proof should be on the people requesting money to be spent this way. And they absolutely, positively cannot prove the 'but for' argument. The process also makes it virtually impossible for anyone else to judge the merits of the program.


On another note, went by on Wednesday night and several rooms had lights on, cars were both out front and in back. Not exactly teeming with activity but this facility is also not closed.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
I understand your complaint with the process for TIF, and not really trying to debate that. I'm only saying that "hotels don't qualify" is pretty sound policy right now for OKC and I'm sure others besides Cathy had input in that. So long as new hotel product is coming to market without incentives and at such an aggressive pace - one that is possibly going to have negative ripple effects outside of the core - there is no good reason to incentivize any hotel construction other than the ones connected FNC and the CC, and those are worthy for reasons well beyond simply adding rooms to the market.

[Pete]

But it's not a policy or guideline... It's all case by case and completely arbitrary.

Evidenced by the Skirvin, FNC and now the Omni. And maybe even the Spaghetti Warehouse building.


I'm just saying, implying that this project didn't qualify is completely misleading. It qualified, it's just that Cathy didn't deem it worthy of TIF for whatever reason.

And when that decision is made, it's done outside any public record or meeting, never documented and not passed upwards for any further review.