Pawhuska - The Pioneer Woman Mercantile

[Eric]

That's like a rounding error on how much the Drummonds are worth.

Very much true. They own land in Osage county like most people couldn't even fathom. I had heard at one point it exceded 25,000 acres. In addition to the actual livestock and buildings and equipment, yes I would dare to say that Ree is the "poorer" of the two spouses believe it or not.

[mugofbeer]

Spent a little time in Pawhuska. It was cool. I'm a huge non-native fan of Oklahoma history and places. Saw this lady on TV a bunch of times and just simply cannot stand to watch her hoked up bulls**t. From the first second it looks like made up crap. It's just so awful to see that hoax as a representation of Oklahoma, and I have spent years in rural areas she's trying to emulate. Bulls**t! Just my opinion, but factually turns my stomach.

lWow! Reading this "opinion" somewhat turns my stomach. Typical of a segment who just can't seem to handle when someone else finds some financial success. The envy just screams. Unless you know her or her business with some personal knowledge, maybe you should abide by the old saying, "if you can't find anything nice to say about someone then dont say anythi g at all?" The two times I've met her, she was extremely polite and friendly despite being obviously very tired.

[Eric]

lWow! Reading this "opinion" somewhat turns my stomach. Typical of a segment who just can't seem to handle when someone else finds some financial success. The envy just screams. Unless you know her or her business with some personal knowledge, maybe you should abide by the old saying, "if you can't find anything nice to say about someone then dont say anythi g at all?" The two times I've met her, she was extremely polite and friendly despite being obviously very tired.

Generally my opinion has been formed by those that knew her as a child. Her own words:

I grew up on the seventh fairway of a golf course in an oil town in Oklahoma. The daughter of an orthopedic surgeon, I spent the school year submerging myself in classical ballet…and the summertime submerging myself in the chlorinated water of the country-club pool. My mother and I had season tickets to the opera in a neighboring city, and thanks to theater trips to New York, I knew every Broadway song ever written. I was a bona fide city girl.

I will say though that her brother, Mike, is as genuine a person that there is. Have seen him around town several times and sat and spoke with him a few times. He didn't know me, but would converse with me like he was totally interested in my life and had known me for years. In case you don't know I think Mike has a bit of Down's or something. He's a bit of a local celeb are far more loved than Ree will ever be.



http://thepioneerwoman.com/confessions/it_takes_a_vill/

I think Ree is probably fairly on point here.

[Swake]

Very much true. They own land in Osage county like most people couldn't even fathom. I had heard at one point it exceded 25,000 acres. In addition to the actual livestock and buildings and equipment, yes I would dare to say that Ree is the "poorer" of the two spouses believe it or not.

No, that's terribly understating it. They are the 19th largest landholders in the country with 433,000 acres. And that's after they sold a huge chunk of the land to Ted Turner. If the land is worth say $5k per acre, that means the ranch alone is worth more than $2 billion.
http://www.landreport.com/2016/04/20...ummond-family/

Her business is a rounding error.

[Eric]

No, that's terribly understating it. They are the 19th largest landholders in the country with 433,000 acres. And that's after they sold a huge chunk of the land to Ted Turner. If the land is worth say $5k per acre, that means the ranch alone is worth more than $2 billion.
http://www.landreport.com/2016/04/20...ummond-family/

Her business is a rounding error.

I may have only been looking at one of the Drummond's, not all of them cumulatively. I'll take your word for it. All i know for a fact is they own a ton of land as a family. To put that number into perspective. The whole of Osage county, which is a really big county constitutes 1.47 million acres. So the Drummond's own a little less than 1/3rd of it. Now, they own land outside of Osage county obviously, but the largest concentration is there I believe. $5k seems like a lot, but I would say a conservative estimate would be about half of that. Some may be worth that, but surely not all of it. There are some pretty remote areas of Osage county that don't particularly demand top dollar. I've seen large tracts improved with homes (500+ acres), barns & arenas go for under $2,500/acre near Pawhuska.

Now that being said, I know they sold a few hundred acres around Skiatook a while back, but they subdivided, so I'm sure they got WAY more than $5k/acre.

None of this distracts from the point that Ree married well, not the other way around.

[mugofbeer]

Wow! The vast land holdings is news to me. Very interesting. No matter. They are obviously hard working people who are investing back into their community.

[Swake]

I may have only been looking at one of the Drummond's, not all of them cumulatively. I'll take your word for it. All i know for a fact is they own a ton of land as a family. To put that number into perspective. The whole of Osage county, which is a really big county constitutes 1.47 million acres. So the Drummond's own a little less than 1/3rd of it. Now, they own land outside of Osage county obviously, but the largest concentration is there I believe. $5k seems like a lot, but I would say a conservative estimate would be about half of that. Some may be worth that, but surely not all of it. There are some pretty remote areas of Osage county that don't particularly demand top dollar. I've seen large tracts improved with homes (500+ acres), barns & arenas go for under $2,500/acre near Pawhuska.

Now that being said, I know they sold a few hundred acres around Skiatook a while back, but they subdivided, so I'm sure they got WAY more than $5k/acre.

None of this distracts from the point that Ree married well, not the other way around.

$5k was a wild guess that meets what most rural land in northeast OK goes for. Anyway, it's a ton of money, it's a large family but they also have a lot money outside of just the land. One of the Drummond's recently bought Tulsa's McBirney Mansion for more than $2 million. They don't have money like Kaiser, the Shustermans, The Warrens or the Cadieuxes but in the Tulsa area, they are still really big money, a. billion or more in the family.

[SoonerDave]

Generally my opinion has been formed by those that knew her as a child. Her own words:



I will say though that her brother, Mike, is as genuine a person that there is. Have seen him around town several times and sat and spoke with him a few times. He didn't know me, but would converse with me like he was totally interested in my life and had known me for years. In case you don't know I think Mike has a bit of Down's or something. He's a bit of a local celeb are far more loved than Ree will ever be.



http://thepioneerwoman.com/confessions/it_takes_a_vill/

I think Ree is probably fairly on point here.

So she likes ballet and classical music, and that alone makes her some sort of fake? That quote is hardly a smoking gun. It's not like she came out and trashed small towns and called everyone in them some sort of filthy name. For heaven's sake, she abandoned that life to marry the man she fell in love with, so while she's obviously not the "average" small town citizen by any means, it hardly seems she's a *complete* phony - or surely unfair to make that inference based solely on that quote.

Look, I'm no "groupie," and I'm at best a passing fan - my wife is the one who enjoys trying her recipes because they are simple and, generally, they work out fairly well. I also realize how TV manipulates the impressions and perceptions of people, and who knows - maybe off camera she is a ravening witch who spews small-town hatred from the second she's off camera. I just have a hard time believing it, and I"m going to give her the benefit of the doubt. No one is forcing her or her husband to go to the restaurant and store and visit the people who are spending money there, there are no TV cameras filming it as a photo-op or promo for her show, or for one of her cookbooks, and to the extent we can see her public personal she is arguably as much or more genuine than most of the food-related "celebs" out there. At some point, if she's really that much a fake, it's on her conscience, not mine.

[Bellaboo]

How so?

You will have to read the book. It's how the FBI got credibility. What really happened to the richest group of people on the continent in the 1920's & '30's. I've loaned it out several times and everyone that's read it is shocked.

[Eric]

So she likes ballet and classical music, and that alone makes her some sort of fake? That quote is hardly a smoking gun. It's not like she came out and trashed small towns and called everyone in them some sort of filthy name. For heaven's sake, she abandoned that life to marry the man she fell in love with, so while she's obviously not the "average" small town citizen by any means, it hardly seems she's a *complete* phony - or surely unfair to make that inference based solely on that quote.

Look, I'm no "groupie," and I'm at best a passing fan - my wife is the one who enjoys trying her recipes because they are simple and, generally, they work out fairly well. I also realize how TV manipulates the impressions and perceptions of people, and who knows - maybe off camera she is a ravening witch who spews small-town hatred from the second she's off camera. I just have a hard time believing it, and I"m going to give her the benefit of the doubt. No one is forcing her or her husband to go to the restaurant and store and visit the people who are spending money there, there are no TV cameras filming it as a photo-op or promo for her show, or for one of her cookbooks, and to the extent we can see her public personal she is arguably as much or more genuine than most of the food-related "celebs" out there. At some point, if she's really that much a fake, it's on her conscience, not mine.

All I'm saying is it is no coincidence you will not see the same type of billboards for the most famous person from the area in a long time. But you will for her brother. Think about that for a second. We don't exactly have a lot of celebs up here, and more than most we almost downplay the fact that she is from here. She only seems to be a celebrity outside of this area. Not sure what they think of her in Pawhuska though so... And her brother was "famous" before Ree was, because he was always at the mall or whatnot just talking with people. Getting to know them. I know it's likely cause he is "different" but still, he doesn't have to. He cares. He has heart. It is a noticeable thing you know. While you can say you think people are hard on her for being famous (maybe some are), I don't just discount the feelings and opinions of a lot of people that knew her growing up, and as an adult.

[BG918]

$5k was a wild guess that meets what most rural land in northeast OK goes for. Anyway, it's a ton of money, it's a large family but they also have a lot money outside of just the land. One of the Drummond's recently bought Tulsa's McBirney Mansion for more than $2 million. They don't have money like Kaiser, the Shustermans, The Warrens or the Cadieuxes but in the Tulsa area, they are still really big money, a. billion or more in the family.

Gentner and Wendy Drummond live in Tulsa and bought the McBirney Mansion. They are active donors to lots of local causes. The Drummond family donated most of the 160 acres of land where the Tulsa Botanic Garden sits in the Osage County portion of Tulsa.

[Bellaboo]

Anyone ever wonder 'how' they go all of that land ?

Not that I know for sure..... but ??? I wouldn't be surprised.

[Swake]

Anyone ever wonder 'how' they go all of that land ?

Not that I know for sure..... but ??? I wouldn't be surprised.

It's a good question, I will ask. I don't think it was by the Osage Murders. That was over headrights, which are the real money in Osage County.

[traxx]

Anyone ever wonder 'how' they go all of that land ?

Not that I know for sure..... but ??? I wouldn't be surprised.

IIRC the land has been handed down by generation. I'm sure someone can find somewhere on the internet that tells of how they originally got it by lying, stealing and killing as this thread seems to have turned into a smear campaign on Ree and the Drummonds.

I don't know Ree from Adam (or is it Eve in this case) but it seems every time someone mentions her in Oklahoma, there's someone who knows someone who knows her or knew her when she was younger and says she's a total fake. I don't know that her saying she was a city girl at one time constitutes her being a fake. After all, on the intro to the show, she says she's an accidental country girl. I don't think she hides it or makes any bones about this was never the life she planned on having when she was young.

[Swake]

IIRC the land has been handed down by generation. I'm sure someone can find somewhere on the internet that tells of how they originally got it by lying, stealing and killing as this thread seems to have turned into a smear campaign on Ree and the Drummonds.

I don't know Ree from Adam (or is it Eve in this case) but it seems every time someone mentions her in Oklahoma, there's someone who knows someone who knows her or knew her when she was younger and says she's a total fake. I don't know that her saying she was a city girl at one time constitutes her being a fake. After all, on the intro to the show, she says she's an accidental country girl. I don't think she hides it or makes any bones about this was never the life she planned on having when she was young.

At the same time the tribe became very wealthy in the early 20th century the Federal Government forced the tribe to divide the land into allotments. Each allotment came with a share of the shared oil profits, called headrights. The Osage Murders were over the headrights.

With that new money coming in from oil headrights a good portion of the tribe moved to California. Much of the rest started to build houses in and near Hominy, Pawhuska and Gray Horse, the three tribal towns today.

I am guessing the Drummonds had some money and were able to buy allotment land very cheaply from Osages that were either leaving the county or were moving to town. I’m not saying there was nothing dirty done by the Drummonds, it’s highly likely there was. I just haven’t heard about it. I do know there’s not a lot of love between the Osage and the Drummonds today.

My father in law is an Osage Congressman and also one of the largest landowners in Osage County. I will ask him. I’m sure he knows, for good or bad. He was one of the people interviewed for the recent book on the Osage Murders.

I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out.

[Doug Loudenback]

I sometimes watch Ree's cooking show and have noticed the ever present smile, but some of her recipes ain't bad and she has certainly put Pawhuska on the map. Has she been harmful to any of you in this thread? Why be as personal as some of you have been? Life's to short, imo.

[CCOKC]

It's so nice to have you back on the forum Doug. Such a positive outlook to everything.

[SoonerDave]

I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out.

About her, specifically, or her kids, or her husband? Or about some part of history to which their name is attached? Substantial difference in my mind.

I seriously doubt Ree or Ladd Drummond murdered anyone. Seriously.

I fully expect that her persona is refined considerably for TV, but the edginess seen in this thread on the part of some to just pounce on her is pretty...interesting. And I realize even saying that makes me sound like I'm sort of over-the-top sycophant, which I'm not - I'd likely never have set foot in Pawhuska or made a 3-hour drive there if not to make my wife happy.....just seems like there are lots of folks here who'd like everyone else to hate her. Don't get that...at all.

[SoonerDave]

I sometimes watch Ree's cooking show and have noticed the ever present smile, but some of her recipes ain't bad and she has certainly put Pawhuska on the map. Has she been harmful to any of you in this thread? Why be as personal as some of you have been? Life's to short, imo.

Amen. And 2nd on the "glad to see you!"

[SoonerDave]

IIRC the land has been handed down by generation. I'm sure someone can find somewhere on the internet that tells of how they originally got it by lying, stealing and killing as this thread seems to have turned into a smear campaign on Ree and the Drummonds.

I don't know Ree from Adam (or is it Eve in this case) but it seems every time someone mentions her in Oklahoma, there's someone who knows someone who knows her or knew her when she was younger and says she's a total fake. I don't know that her saying she was a city girl at one time constitutes her being a fake. After all, on the intro to the show, she says she's an accidental country girl. I don't think she hides it or makes any bones about this was never the life she planned on having when she was young.

Exactly - that's why I don't get all the venom. She makes *no bones* about the fact she didn't plan small-town life. She was apparently planning to go to law school in Chicago when she met Ladd. Heck, she's leveraged that very fact into a cottage industry - not like she's hidden it and is pretending to be something she isn't.

[Bellaboo]

At the same time the tribe became very wealthy in the early 20th century the Federal Government forced the tribe to divide the land into allotments. Each allotment came with a share of the shared oil profits, called headrights. The Osage Murders were over the headrights.

With that new money coming in from oil headrights a good portion of the tribe moved to California. Much of the rest started to build houses in and near Hominy, Pawhuska and Gray Horse, the three tribal towns today.

I am guessing the Drummonds had some money and were able to buy allotment land very cheaply from Osages that were either leaving the county or were moving to town. I’m not saying there was nothing dirty done by the Drummonds, it’s highly likely there was. I just haven’t heard about it. I do know there’s not a lot of love between the Osage and the Drummonds today.

My father in law is an Osage Congressman and also one of the largest landowners in Osage County. I will ask him. I’m sure he knows, for good or bad. He was one of the people interviewed for the recent book on the Osage Murders.

I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out.

If you read my first post in this thread, you'll see i'm a big fan of Ree and Ladd. But after reading the book, it makes you wonder about the headrights. The young Irish immigrant, the first Drummond, went to work at the Merchantile in the late 1800's as a 23 year old clerk. I don't know the rest of the story, but the way the Osage were taken advantage of by poisioning, manipulation and theft of headrights by white males it makes you wonder how they amassed a fortune and wealth of land. Didn't they get paid a cool million $$$ by the Feds for the wild horse program ? Not sure if it's true but this is what I read.

As a side note, I have absolutely no idea if the first Drummond was involved, and we all know the current family would have had nothing to do with what happened in the past.

The book 'Killers of the Flower Moon' is a non fiction, and very eye opening read.

[Eric]

This is completely shooting from the hip, but I think more than anything having a lot of male children that were really smart and interested in ranching probably was the single most important factor in their growth. We're not talking about hillbilly ranchers here, we're talking Harvard educated ranchers. And yes 400k+ is a lot of land. But that is cumulative. There are a bunch of Drummond's, with more reasonable holdings of land. I know grain farmers in the Midwest that own 10's of thousands of acres. I know that ain't 400k, but if they each had a slew of farmer sons/daughters and 100+ years to accumulate it, it could happen.

To my recollection, I have never heard the Drummond name mentioned with any of the nefarious things that went on in Osage county.

I know some people are critical of how much the receive from the US government to house the wild mustangs, but really I don't think it's enough to make a fortune off of.

[traxx]

I don't get the hate. No one can actually link them with murder but have no problem insinuating that their family is probably responsible for some of the murders in the '20s. And in my mind's eye, I can see Swake devilishly rubbing hands together like Mr. Burns when he says "I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out."

[Swake]

This is completely shooting from the hip, but I think more than anything having a lot of male children that were really smart and interested in ranching probably was the single most important factor in their growth. We're not talking about hillbilly ranchers here, we're talking Harvard educated ranchers. And yes 400k+ is a lot of land. But that is cumulative. There are a bunch of Drummond's, with more reasonable holdings of land. I know grain farmers in the Midwest that own 10's of thousands of acres. I know that ain't 400k, but if they each had a slew of farmer sons/daughters and 100+ years to accumulate it, it could happen.

To my recollection, I have never heard the Drummond name mentioned with any of the nefarious things that went on in Osage county.

I know some people are critical of how much the receive from the US government to house the wild mustangs, but really I don't think it's enough to make a fortune off of.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/r...be1a731e6.html

[Swake]

I don't get the hate. No one can actually link them with murder but have no problem insinuating that their family is probably responsible for some of the murders in the '20s. And in my mind's eye, I can see Swake devilishly rubbing hands together like Mr. Burns when he says "I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out."

The history of Osage County isn't good. The Drummond came out winners from a ugly place and time in our state's history. How did they do that? The current Drummond family had nothing to do with it, it's not on them. It's just history.