Kroger

[chuck5815]

Yeah, pretty much. It seems there are two main camps. Kroger's isn't in OKC because they don't want to put in the work to succeed, or Kroger's isn't in OKC because they're too good for us. Like I said, people are entitled to their opinion, even when it has been proven incorrect. Others came in, did the work and are doing quite well, so rather than admit they were wrong people just crap on the ones who came to town and did the work.

Personally, as far as I'm concerned the thread was over and true hearts revealed when "What SW OKC considers cool would be considered gauche in Edmond" was thrown into the ring. That told me everything I need to know. It also told me that poster seems unaware that Crest's offices are in Edmond and a second store is being built there, so...

I can't help you if you think SW OKC is even close to being in the same socioeconomic ballpark as Edmond.

And whether Crest's corporate offices are located in a particular city is completely irrelevant to the question of the store's market position. But I like those Red Herrings. Please keep them coming.

[bchris02]

Yeah, pretty much. It seems there are two main camps. Kroger's isn't in OKC because they don't want to put in the work to succeed, or Kroger's isn't in OKC because they're too good for us. Like I said, people are entitled to their opinion, even when it has been proven incorrect. Others came in, did the work and are doing quite well, so rather than admit they were wrong people just crap on the ones who came to town and did the work.

I think the correct answer is that Kroger isn't in OKC because Wal-Mart has too much of a stranglehold on this market. The liquor laws in Oklahoma also play a part as not being able to sell wine or full-strength beer eats into the profitability of a business that already has a very thin profit margin. Kroger isn't in Tulsa either.
Tulsa fortunately has a very high quality local mid-tier grocer, Reasor's, to fill the niche. OKC's counterpart, Homeland, is a disaster. The ideal situation would be for Kroger to buy out Homeland. I don't see that ever coming to fruition though.

[foodiefan]

not to dereail, but the "new" Reasor's in Brookside (41st and Peoria) is unbelievable!! A "mini-Wegman's". Sure wish there was something equivalent in OKC. . . .

[rlewis]

Kroger long ago stopped trying to start from scratch in new markets. The M.O. has been to buy up regional chains and leave them with their original nameplates. With Walmart having grocery stores in pretty much every market, this is actually a smart business move on Kroger's part. They don't drain their financial resources trying to get established in a new market in a business that has razor thin profits. I really think the only way they get involved in this market is if they can get a good deal on one of the higher quality local chains.

[baralheia]

I think the correct answer is that Kroger isn't in OKC because Wal-Mart has too much of a stranglehold on this market. The liquor laws in Oklahoma also play a part as not being able to sell wine or full-strength beer eats into the profitability of a business that already has a very thin profit margin. Kroger isn't in Tulsa either.
Tulsa fortunately has a very high quality local mid-tier grocer, Reasor's, to fill the niche. OKC's counterpart, Homeland, is a disaster. The ideal situation would be for Kroger to buy out Homeland. I don't see that ever coming to fruition though.

Truthfully, while I would like to see another national grocer here, I'd much rather see Reasor's or Crest buy Homeland. The new stores that Crest has been building (see Norman and SW OKC) compare very favorably with other mid-tier grocery stores that I've personally experienced in other markets, like Jewel-Osco and King Soopers - but truthfully, their older locations (like their current Edmond store) could use some improvement to make it look and feel like their newer stores.

[bchris02]

Truthfully, while I would like to see another national grocer here, I'd much rather see Reasor's or Crest buy Homeland. The new stores that Crest has been building (see Norman and SW OKC) compare very favorably with other mid-tier grocery stores that I've personally experienced in other markets, like Jewel-Osco and King Soopers - but truthfully, their older locations (like their current Edmond store) could use some improvement to make it look and feel like their newer stores.

I agree completely.

I would love to see Reasor's or Crest buy Homeland moreso than Kroger. I agree that the newer Crest stores compare very favorably with the standard grocers in other markets. I do wonder how far OKC is from a downtown grocer or at least one in the urban core. A lot more people are living in the core in 2017 compared to 2010. I definitely think it could be supported, especially since the closest legitimate competition is Wal-Mart at Belle Isle.

[foodiefan]

. . . Reasor's, absolutely Reasor's. Yes the newer Crest Stores are nicer, but. . .when you look at the older stores, the older Reasor's have them beat by miles.

[SoonerDave]

I can't help you if you think SW OKC is even close to being in the same socioeconomic ballpark as Edmond.

And whether Crest's corporate offices are located in a particular city is completely irrelevant to the question of the store's market position. But I like those Red Herrings. Please keep them coming.

And *you* obviously aren't up on your demographics - do you know where the highest per-capita income demographic in central OK is located? Nope, not Edmond as you incorrectly presume...it's in far SW OKC, in the area served by retail locations like Chatenay Square and populated with homes like Rivendell, Greenbriar, and Lakeridge. What's funny is that this was published in the Oklahoman a couple of years ago, but folks like you just perpetuate the incorrect, almost bigoted notions of what SW OKC is *in your head*. So about those red herrings....

[SoonerDave]

Perhaps you are right insofar as store experience is concerned. However, I just don't consider Crest to be middle market. It's prices for most items are similar to or even better than Walmart, and it's fair to think of Walmart as a discounter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-le...b_5039301.html

Once again, no offense, but we have the fatal logical fallacy in the argument - Crest is cheaper than WalMart, WalMart is a discounter, therefore Crest is a discounter. The argument is just fundamentally flawed. That's like saying my kid is using a crayon, some crayons are red, therefore my kid is using a red crayon. It's as flawed as the previous argument.

How are Crest and WalMart different? Entirely different marketing strategies and business models; Crest doesn't advertise at all. WalMart essentially never owns its own buildings; they develop, rent, then abandon-in-place; Crest owns everything. Yet Crest's in-store experience is miles ahead of WalMart; Crest actively keeps their stores neat and clean, reserves restocking to late hours. Where are they similar? They both leverage bulk purchases, which is obviously an area where WM will always have an advantage.

Crest has undoubtedly stepped up their own store experience with their Norman and SW OKC stores as examples; their older Moore store, converted from a Homeland, is indicative of this. Aldi's hasn't changed theirs arguably since their inception; unbox it and shelve it has been their modus operandi essentially from day one. Crest is miles beyond that model.

[chuck5815]

And *you* obviously aren't up on your demographics - do you know where the highest per-capita income demographic in central OK is located? Nope, not Edmond as you incorrectly presume...it's in far SW OKC, in the area served by retail locations like Chatenay Square and populated with homes like Rivendell, Greenbriar, and Lakeridge. What's funny is that this was published in the Oklahoman a couple of years ago, but folks like you just perpetuate the incorrect, almost bigoted notions of what SW OKC is *in your head*. So about those red herrings....

Looks like you're wrong . . . again. And where's the Uptown Grocery in Moore? I know there's one in Edmond.

Edmond
The average household income for 73034 is $108,168.
The per-capita household income for 73034 is $40,129.
13.1% of households make over $200,000 a year.


Chatenay Square (Moore)
The average household income for 73170 is $95,178.
The per-capita household income for 73170 is $34,692.
6.6% of households make over $200,000 a year.

https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73034
https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73170

[riflesforwatie]

I have to be honest, I don't get the hubbub over Kroger. I've only been in a couple of them, I guess, but they just seem like regular grocery stores to me.

[TheTravellers]

... Crest actively keeps their stores neat and clean, reserves restocking to late hours....

Have to argue this point - the Edmond Crest was absolutely horrible about restocking during daytime hours (honestly, I haven't seen a grocery store that does restocking only at night for many many years, though) - on pretty much every Friday that we went, literally every 3rd or 4th aisle had huge pallet jacks and people restocking, made it a nightmare with the crowds that are omnipresent, sooooooooooo glad we don't have to go there anymore. Uptown is our store of choice (even though we live in Venice), and when Winco opens on 39th, we'll be there in a heartbeat.

[Roger S]

...and when Winco opens on 39th, we'll be there in a heartbeat.

If your reason for avoiding Crest is restocking during daytime hours and crowds.... You're not going to enjoy Winco.

[TheTravellers]

If your reason for avoiding Crest is restocking during daytime hours and crowds.... You're not going to enjoy Winco.

Actually, we moved far away from the Edmond Crest, so that's the main reason, and then we went to the one closest to us at 23rd/Meridian Crest *once* and probably won't ever darken its doorstep again, that was just horrible. From what I've seen, Winco has wider aisles and I don't think they have as many (or any) bumpouts as Crest does in the aisles, which complicates the restocking issue, so Winco may be workable. At least it'll be closer than Uptown, and less expensive, and have a wider selection of normal, day-to-day stuff (we'll probably end up going to Uptown every couple of months for some of their specialty stuff, not sure how Winco's meat/seafood counter, deli, and bakery will stack up to Uptown's).

[chuck5815]

If your reason for avoiding Crest is restocking during daytime hours and crowds.... You're not going to enjoy Winco.

I've never seen anyone restocking anything at a Kroger. This is one of the hallmarks of a middle-market store.

[zefferoni]

I have to be honest, I don't get the hubbub over Kroger. I've only been in a couple of them, I guess, but they just seem like regular grocery stores to me.

The one I used to frequent in Conway AR was like a slightly larger version of the 18th and Classen Homeland, so I'm as baffled as you are.

[Roger S]

not sure how Winco's meat/seafood counter, deli, and bakery will stack up to Uptown's).

Seafood counters not bad. Meat (butcher) counter doesn't exist. I really like Winco's bulk section just for the variety of bulk items they carry.

[Roger S]

The one I used to frequent in Conway AR was like a slightly larger version of the 18th and Classen Homeland, so I'm as baffled as you are.

If we had Krogers here people probably would have the same opinion of them as the stores we have. It's easy to glamorize something you don't have. Not condemning anyone for the behavior. I'm as guilty of doing it as anyone else is..... Ask me about Central Texas style BBQ sometime and I'll tell you stories about angels dancing around my head while eating it.

[TheTravellers]

Seafood counters not bad. Meat (butcher) counter doesn't exist. I really like Winco's bulk section just for the variety of bulk items they carry.

Thx, good to know, not what I wanted to hear, but at least I know. So the butchers/fishmongers I know of close (relatively speaking) to us are Rhett's on Britton/May, Kamp's on Western/Wilshire-ish, and Gulfport Seafood on May/Wilshire. Are there any that are actually close to 36th/May?

[Roger S]

Thx, good to know, not what I wanted to hear, but at least I know. So the butchers/fishmongers I know of close (relatively speaking) to us are Rhett's on Britton/May, Kamp's on Western/Wilshire-ish, and Gulfport Seafood on May/Wilshire. Are there any that are actually close to 36th/May?

Only if there is a carniceria in the area.... I know a lot of people are intimidated by the Latino markets but places like Morelo's and the other Mercados have some pretty nice meat counters.

[SoonerDave]

Looks like you're wrong . . . again. And where's the Uptown Grocery in Moore? I know there's one in Edmond.

Edmond
The average household income for 73034 is $108,168.
The per-capita household income for 73034 is $40,129.
13.1% of households make over $200,000 a year.


Chatenay Square (Moore)
The average household income for 73170 is $95,178.
The per-capita household income for 73170 is $34,692.
6.6% of households make over $200,000 a year.

https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73034
https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73170

And you, again, fail by cherry picking ONE zip code in the SW OKC area. This was not some arbitrary information I made up, this was a published, verified story in the business section of the Oklahoman that was specifically written in part to dispel the crap people like you try to petpetuate that SW OKC is a bunch of inbred trailer park hicks. I 100% stand behind the previous story/post. I condemn your hatred for SW OKC on its face.

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

[chuck5815]

And you, again, fail by cherry picking ONE zip code in the SW OKC area. This was not some arbitrary information I made up, this was a published, verified story in the business section of the Oklahoman that was specifically written in part to dispel the crap people like you try to petpetuate that SW OKC is a bunch of inbred trailer park hicks. I 100% stand behind the previous story/post. I condemn your hatred for SW OKC on its face.

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

I picked the zip code of the "elite" shopping center you referenced. Have you not learned anything about the news media in the last 12 months? I will trust the census bureau over the words of some hack journalist working for the DOK.

Also when did Moore become part of SW OKC? It's South OKC, no? So strange that such a huge expert about OKC wouldn't know that. And finally, if Moore is as rich as you claim, why doesn't it have a Whole Foods or an Uptown Grocery?

[OKCRT]

And you, again, fail by cherry picking ONE zip code in the SW OKC area. This was not some arbitrary information I made up, this was a published, verified story in the business section of the Oklahoman that was specifically written in part to dispel the crap people like you try to petpetuate that SW OKC is a bunch of inbred trailer park hicks. I 100% stand behind the previous story/post. I condemn your hatred for SW OKC on its face.

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

I also remember reading that article a couple years ago. South Metro had the highest per capita income.

[Jeepnokc]

A I condemn your hatred for SW OKC on its face.

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

My response was very similar to yours when I read the same messages. Alot of people are clueless to the amount of wealth in SW OKC. Wealth isn't determined by having a whole foods a mile away.

[stile99]

My response was very similar to yours when I read the same messages. Alot of people are clueless to the amount of wealth in SW OKC. Wealth isn't determined by having a whole foods a mile away.

To some, it is. Thankfully most aren't quite as shallow.