Now come on, Sparty. You know that you and I are like-minded on almost all of that. This is of course bleeding over from another thread (on San Antonio of all things), but just so that everyone knows what we are talking about, you and PluPan were talking about something, and he asked (more or less) whether OKCTalk was a place for all OKC-minded people to chat about their city or whether it was only a place for the urban-minded, and you indicated (more or less) that OKCTalk was strictly a place for urbanists, with the logical extension being that the suburban-minded should GTFO. That is the only thing I take issue with.

I applaud you and JTF and Sid and others who fearlessly carry the urbanist flag, and who nearly always do a great job of showing why the economies of scale favor urban over suburban development from a public financing and from a quality-of-life standpoint. If we can slowly convince the rest of the city to allow, encourage (or even - gasp - REQUIRE) higher-quality, more-dense development to take hold, our city will be the better (and the richer) for it. Where we part ways is that I don't feel the need to castigate those who like it in the 'burbs. We need them and their support, both as users and as fellow taxpayers, to make our own vision happen. And hopefully we can convert a few along the way. Which is already happening, of course, because of the several thousand now living downtown almost all of them by definition originated in the 'burbs (myself included, though it was decades ago).